Food aggressive dog

[Divan85]

So we adopted a mixed breed puppy 2 years ago, she was 3 months old when we got her. She is a border collie x german sheppard cross. She is the most beautiful dog. She is well mannered, friendly, lovable and funny, we love her to bits. Unfortunately she started being aggressive whenever it came to feeding time. Something we never picked up on early on as she always ate outside and we walked away after putting the food down. It became worse to the point where she attached me twice, and I do mean full on attack, not just a defensive bite.

We took her to trainers who tried to see if she would get aggressive with them but she didn't, they also tried giving her treats and food and she did nothing, she didn't want to take anything from anyone, not even me. They said there is nothing wrong with the dog, she is not aggressive, if she had food aggression she would get aggressive with any food. She doesn't. If we give her treats and biscuits she is fine. Only with actual food (pellets). We then took a video showing how aggressive she gets and they said it is a mix of excitement and confusion which then leads to aggression. They came and did a home visit and she tried to get aggressive with them and they "sorted her out". They pulled her up on the leash to disable her and once she got calm they gently released her and she was fine after that. I took the leash and walked her around the back yard and she was fine, although she still did not want to eat. They said it was fine, if she doesn't want to eat then she doesn't get food. If she is hungry enough she will eat. So that night I fed her the first time on my own whilst on the leash (after taking her for a walk) and all was fine. That was December last year, since then I have walked her every morning and evening before feeding her and she was fine, no issues. Then last week she got sick, upset stomach. I took her for a walk but when it got to feeding she just sniffed the food once, twice and then attacked. I could disable her with the leash like they showed me. She ate fine again on Thursday. This morning again she did not want to eat and attacked. Luckily again I could control her on the leash. Waited for her to calm down and then I settle her down, tell her "lets walk"and then we walk around the back garden without issues. Stop, tell her to sit and then give her half a biscuit and then we walk again. Did that for about 10min untill I eventually sit her down again, give her half a biscuit and then take the leash off. Walk away and close the gate so she stays outside.

I love the dog and don't want to get rid of her, but I don't know what to do. It is a dangerous situation and what happens if she attacks other people, or worse kids. We will be looking to start a family towards the end of the year, or early next year and it is worrying that I have this potentially dangerous dog. We have had friends over with young children, 3/4 years old and she plays with them so gently it is unbelievable. I really do not know what to do anymore. It is heart breaking to think I might have to get rid of her, or even worse, put her to sleep.

Apologies for the essay. Has anyone here had similar experience? Any advice?

 

[Qui_Illustrati]

Can't and won't give you any advice what to do, all I can say is what I would do in your situation. The fact that a dog might be a threat, as negligible a threat as it may be, to a child would warrant me to find another caring home for the dog.
I've seen a dog attack on a child, a mild mannered dog, and it happens so fast and so viciously it would make your head spin. Any child deserves to be brought up in a home where threats are mitigated or altogether removed.

Just my personal opinion.

 

[ViVceptioN]

Have you taken her to a vet?

I've heard that aggression can sometimes mean that something else might be wrong (medically). Might be worth a shot.

 

[TheJudge]

What do you mean by she attacked? She attacked the food or you?

 

[Divan85]

What do you mean by she attacked? She attacked the food or you?

She attacks me. As in full on attack mode. I have had to fight her off me the first two times she really attacked. The first one I had a jean on and she bit me through the jean, that protected me somewhat, second one I ended up in hospital with 8 stitches in my hand.

The trainers recommended feeding her on the leash which I thought was ridiculous, but it actually worked for the first 5 months until she started her issues again now after she was sick.

Have you taken her to a vet?

I've heard that aggression can sometimes mean that something else might be wrong (medically). Might be worth a shot.

The animal behaviorist we had come out and do a house visit also mentioned that, but unfortunately those tests can only be done by certain vets and costs thousands of rands from what I could find out.

Can't and won't give you any advice what to do, all I can say is what I would do in your situation. The fact that a dog might be a threat, as negligible a threat as it may be, to a child would warrant me to find another caring home for the dog.
I've seen a dog attack on a child, a mild mannered dog, and it happens so fast and so viciously it would make your head spin. Any child deserves to be brought up in a home where threats are mitigated or altogether removed.

Just my personal opinion.

This is the way I am starting to feel. I love the dog immensely. I teared up just thinking about having to put her down cause I can't see it being safe to give her away. My wife unfortunately does not want to hear anything about getting rid of the dog as she loves the dog probably more than me.

I really don't know what to do. The trainers keep saying its not that bad, she can be helped, but at what cost? and I don't mean financially, although that is obviously also a factor.

 

[TheJudge]

She attacks me. As in full on attack mode. I have had to fight her off me the first two times she really attacked. The first one I had a jean on and she bit me through the jean, that protected me somewhat, second one I ended up in hospital with 8 stitches in my hand.

The trainers recommended feeding her on the leash which I thought was ridiculous, but it actually worked for the first 5 months until she started her issues again now after she was sick.


The animal behaviorist we had come out and do a house visit also mentioned that, but unfortunately those tests can only be done by certain vets and costs thousands of rands from what I could find out.



This is the way I am starting to feel. I love the dog immensely. I teared up just thinking about having to put her down cause I can't see it being safe to give her away. My wife unfortunately does not want to hear anything about getting rid of the dog as she loves the dog probably more than me.

I really don't know what to do. The trainers keep saying its not that bad, she can be helped, but at what cost? and I don't mean financially, although that is obviously also a factor.

You know that she stopped for a while but unless that trainer can actually remedy the issue its not much help. Does doggo freak if there is only a pellet or two around? What about being near someone that happens to have dog food, a kid feeding their own dog for example?

 

[Divan85]

You know that she stopped for a while but unless that trainer can actually remedy the issue its not much help. Does doggo freak if there is only a pellet or two around? What about being near someone that happens to have dog food, a kid feeding their own dog for example?

We never feed her when there are people around. It is only me and her. We walk past my wife who might be in the living room when we go out to feed, but no issues with that. I put her on her leash and then we go for a walk, not far, about 10min walk (in this time my wife puts the food in her bowl and leaves it on the counter) then back at home we walk through the house and outside, walk around the back gardens for a few minutes and then into the house, I tell her to sit by the counter at which point I pick up bowl, we then walk outside. I put down the food and then she either eats, or attacks.

She has never been aggressive with treats or biscuits. Even last week when her stomach was not well we cooked chicken, rice and pumpkin which my wife put is a small platic container. She would go put it in the living room on the floor and walk away. Dog started eating the moment she put it down and never looked up whilst she walked away. We then wait in the bedroom until she is finished. Once she comes into the bedroom we would close the bedroom door whilst one of us go and take the container away. We fed her like that for a few days, little bit at a time. In between we fed her chicken pieces out of our hands in the kitchen, no problems. Seems that the problem is only with the bowl. However for 5 months it wasn't an issue. We even tried (long ago before trainers came) to remove the bowl and just put the food on the grass but she didn't like that either, that is when she attacked first time.

 

[PAZUZU]

Sounds like your dog needs a poes klap

 

[AceSwiftShooter]

Sounds like your dog needs a poes klap

Bra. I'm reading the thread thinking I'm gona say this 😂

But really, wish you all the luck!

 

[Qui_Illustrati]

My wife unfortunately does not want to hear anything about getting rid of the dog as she loves the dog probably more than me.

I really don't know what to do. The trainers keep saying its not that bad, she can be helped, but at what cost? and I don't mean financially, although that is obviously also a factor.

Your wife will come around the second your kid is in the picture and the second she tenses up when the dog is near the kid. A mother will protect her own at all costs. Just hope it's not after an 'incident'.

Hope it works out for you. The odds an adult can fend off an attack or at least fight back are pretty high, the odds a child can isn't good at all.

 

[SpaceWalker]

cesar millan how to stop aggression - Google Search

Understanding Dog Aggression | The 4 Types Of Aggression - Cesar's Way

Understanding each type of aggression will help you know how to stop a dog's aggression and prevent future aggression.

www.cesarsway.com

Have you watched some of his videos on the topic?

 

[el_guapo3291]

When you say "feeding time" I"m assuming you mean food is put out at a certain time and then taken away? (even if not completely eaten). Personally I haven't encountered this type of issue much, whenever we got a new puppy I made it point to move around and take away the food while they were eating to reinforce that I am in charge and I also do not allow them to just eat once I place the bowl down until I give them permission to do so. Without knowing all the details and circumstances you're going to have to either make a very diffcult decision to put her down or to try to correct the behaviour which depending on how old she is may take some time (old habits die hard as they say), that being said sometimes it's the human behaviour that needs correcting rather than the animal alone (There could be something you or someone else is doing inadvertantly that triggers the behaviour). I can highly recommend Callika Morries from Paws 4 Life Academy > https://paws4life.co.za/, I hope you get a positive result.

 

[TheJudge]

Sounds like your dog needs a poes klap

Having owned many Rottweilers this is sometimes the way, that pecking order needs to be reinforced before they're built like a brick shithouse.

 

[D3TTOL]

Having owned many Rottweilers this is sometimes the way, that pecking order needs to be reinforced before they're built like a brick shithouse.

I've "smacked" my dog perhaps twice. It made little to no difference to their behavior or the situation.
She went after one of our cats and the second time she mauled our other dog which was a dominance dispute and both times hitting her did absolutely nothing. A dog generally doesn't know why you are hitting it so I tend to disagree with that.
Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with corporal punishment. Hidings to all the snowflake kiddies!!!!! But at least you can tell kids what they did wrong and why you are giving them a hiding. Dog just gets smacked and mostly thinks "Why you hit me?". Continue to do that and then you have a dog that either becomes defensive and more likely to bite you back or they become a dog that flinches every time you make a sudden move.

But each to their own I guess.

 

[Spontaneous.Spinach]

Show us the video? of her being aggressive so we can understand your side?
My little HELL spawn bunny gets aggressive during food time too

 

[TheJudge]

I've "smacked" my dog perhaps twice. It made little to no difference to their behavior or the situation.
She went after one of our cats and the second time she mauled our other dog which was a dominance dispute and both times hitting her did absolutely nothing. A dog generally doesn't know why you are hitting it so I tend to disagree with that.
Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with corporal punishment. Hidings to all the snowflake kiddies!!!!! But at least you can tell kids what they did wrong and why you are giving them a hiding. Dog just gets smacked and mostly thinks "Why you hit me?". Continue to do that and then you have a dog that either becomes defensive and more likely to bite you back or they become a dog that flinches every time you make a sudden move.

But each to their own I guess.

It's not something I've done repeatedly, it was only ever done when they showed aggression and tried to assert dominance (ie they initiated the aggression). Once the pecking order was sorted the issue disappeared. For food issues we'd provide the food and I'd periodically touch the bowl because the bowl is mine and not theirs.

On the whole I don't agree with beating an animal. As you say the context isn't generally there. My uncle had a boxer that hated a particular school uniform because kids from the school had thrown stones at the dog. The uniform was the trigger for it, not the person.

 

[djbrettv]

I have a family member who is a dog behaviouralist and breeds/trains dogs for use in police and military roles. Asked him about this and he said this:

- Get a muzzle for the dog and put it on before feeding time in another part of the property (not near bowl/feeding area)
- Then proceed with feeding routine, keep muzzle on (Yes doggo won't be able to eat but just go with it 😂).
- Repeatedly put down the bowl and take it away with muzzle still on.
- If Dog attacks you will have to push it away while taking the bowl away. Don't leave the bowl on the floor and leave the area (IMPORTANT). You have to show possession/dominance here and stand up to any aggression the dog shows.
- Once dog realises it cannot eat the food until it stops attacking you or you feel like it is safe enough, remove the muzzle and allow the dog to eat. Stay and watch the dog eat. Don't walk away while the dog is eating.
- Repeat each time you feed until dog stops attacking (hopefully). You may need to stick this out for about 3 weeks apparently.
- Eventaully you can try feeding without the muzzle.

Good luck

 

[KLEAN_upguy]

Change Bowl to a training bowl, to slow down the eating, you have to show dominance...as the owner you have to have the confidence to take a bite if needed better than anyone. You know they progress when you can stop your dog while eating, you should be able to put your hand in the bowl while eating. Just remember you are the alpha in every situation.

 

[SteveIndeed]

It's not something I've done repeatedly, it was only ever done when they showed aggression and tried to assert dominance (ie they initiated the aggression). Once the pecking order was sorted the issue disappeared. For food issues we'd provide the food and I'd periodically touch the bowl because the bowl is mine and not theirs.

This is the way, especially with rotties - I speak from experience. If either of mine tried to nip me when I tried to touch their bowls while they ate, they'd get a very swift smack. The key is to administer the punishment as soon as possible after the bad act. Do it anytime later and the poor animal will have no idea why it's being disciplined. The dog must associate the bad act with the risk of punishment.

 

[Scrooloose]

I have a family member who is a dog behaviouralist and breeds/trains dogs for use in police and military roles. Asked him about this and he said this:

- Get a muzzle for the dog and put it on before feeding time in another part of the property (not near bowl/feeding area)
- Then proceed with feeding routine, keep muzzle on (Yes doggo won't be able to eat but just go with it 😂).
- Repeatedly put down the bowl and take it away with muzzle still on.
- If Dog attacks you will have to push it away while taking the bowl away. Don't leave the bowl on the floor and leave the area (IMPORTANT). You have to show possession/dominance here and stand up to any aggression the dog shows.
- Once dog realises it cannot eat the food until it stops attacking you or you feel like it is safe enough, remove the muzzle and allow the dog to eat. Stay and watch the dog eat. Don't walk away while the dog is eating.
- Repeat each time you feed until dog stops attacking (hopefully). You may need to stick this out for about 3 weeks apparently.
- Eventaully you can try feeding without the muzzle.

Good luck

This is great advice.

Growing up on the plot, we had many dogs. We never let them decide when they get to eat. Each dog had their own bowl, and they had to patiently wait for their bowl to arrive. We had them so well disciplined that they would not go to another dog's bowl even if there was food left in there and the other dog had finished eating. The only thing they shared was the water bowl.

We had several mixed breeds and a few thoroughbreds. Saint Bernard, Dachshund, Labrador, Ridgeback, Weimaraner, Boerboel and so on. Only the one Boerboel had an issue with a particular Dachshund, and that was because my mom didn't acknowledge the Boerboel but favoured the particular Dachshund.

Animals, cute as they might be, are still animals and need to be handled appropriately.

 

[TheJudge]

This is great advice.

Growing up on the plot, we had many dogs. We never let them decide when they get to eat. Each dog had their own bowl, and they had to patiently wait for their bowl to arrive. We had them so well disciplined that they would not go to another dog's bowl even if there was food left in there and the other dog had finished eating. The only thing they shared was the water bowl.

We had several mixed breeds and a few thoroughbreds. Saint Bernard, Dachshund, Labrador, Ridgeback, Weimaraner, Boerboel and so on. Only the one Boerboel had an issue with a particular Dachshund, and that was because my mom didn't acknowledge the Boerboel but favoured the particular Dachshund.

Animals, cute as they might be, are still animals and need to be handled appropriately.

I think some people conflate an animal being part of a family when the dog sees itself as part of a pack, hence the need to establish pack order. Once that is done then all is generally good. When folk don't and the larger breeds grow up its a hell of a mission to convince a 60kg furry ball of muscle and teeth that it isn't in charge let alone subservient to say a child in the family.

 

[Divan85]

Change Bowl to a training bowl, to slow down the eating, you have to show dominance...as the owner you have to have the confidence to take a bite if needed better than anyone. You know they progress when you can stop your dog while eating, you should be able to put your hand in the bowl while eating. Just remember you are the alpha in every situation.

We have tried the slow feeding bowl long ago, didn't go down well, struggled to eat the food and got aggressive.

It is about dominance, like the trainers told us, she is a pack animal, someone has to be the leader. If I am not going to be the leader then she will take control. I have to show dominance. Like they said, in the old days people would say take a PVC pipe and beat the shit out of the dog until the dog understands it is not the boss. Can't do that anymore, it is animal cruelty. Eitherway I wouldn't want to do that with any animal anyway.

So last night she attacked again. Took one or two pebbles from the bowl, dropped them, turned round and came at me. Not as aggressive as yesterday morning (or previously). I still hung her up by the leash until she calmed a bit, then set her down slowly. Difference is this time I said fuck it, told my wife to leave the bowl outside, she WILL eat if I tell her to, previous occasions I told my wife to take it away. Once her head dropped (vertical aggressive head vs downward / flat calmer head) I said lets walk, and she immediately began to walk with me around the back yard. Took a couple of laps and then went to the bowl again, she stopped and sat down about meter away from the bowl, didn't want to go closer. I walked her away and did another lap or two and took her back to the bowl again and said eat!. She slowly began to eat and finished the bowl. Took her away, sat her down and have her half a biscuit. Took her back to bowl, picked it up and we walked into house, put the bowl on the counter and walked back out. Sat her down, half a biscuit and took the leash off and walked away. Closed the gate and she stayed outside lying by the gate until we opened up a bit later on.

This morning she ate without any issues. So maybe it is getting better, maybe she just needed reminding that I am the "alpha dog" and she is not the leader. Will see how tonight goes.

Thanks for all the messages.

 

[el3venth]

There is two problems here: (1) The dog is aggressive. (2) There is the potential of a child in the story.

Even if you sort out the aggressive behaviour now, there will always be the niggle of the future. Especially with kids. It is fine to say that you should assert dominance etc, but will your 6 month old baby know his/her place in the pack when they pull a tail, and will the dog not just decide to assert their dominance by giving a bite or two?

This is not an easy problem with a easy solution. I will always pick my baby above a dog (sorry fur baby parents).
I suggest you ask a professional animal behaviourist and not the internet.

 

[Spoil3d]

Is your dog sterilized?

When dog's especially males are steralized there is a significant reduction in their aggresion levels.

 

[Divan85]

She was spayed at 6 months. She is now just over 2 years old. I am not asking the internet for help, I was just hoping to hear that other people have also had similar issues and were able to work through it. The trainers think she is the best dog ever, once the food issue is sorted she will be the perfect dog. Although they probably say that about every dog, I don't know.

 

[Qui_Illustrati]

I have a family member who is a dog behaviouralist and breeds/trains dogs for use in police and military roles. Asked him about this and he said this:

- Get a muzzle for the dog and put it on before feeding time in another part of the property (not near bowl/feeding area)
- Then proceed with feeding routine, keep muzzle on (Yes doggo won't be able to eat but just go with it 😂).
- Repeatedly put down the bowl and take it away with muzzle still on.
- If Dog attacks you will have to push it away while taking the bowl away. Don't leave the bowl on the floor and leave the area (IMPORTANT). You have to show possession/dominance here and stand up to any aggression the dog shows.
- Once dog realises it cannot eat the food until it stops attacking you or you feel like it is safe enough, remove the muzzle and allow the dog to eat. Stay and watch the dog eat. Don't walk away while the dog is eating.
- Repeat each time you feed until dog stops attacking (hopefully). You may need to stick this out for about 3 weeks apparently.
- Eventaully you can try feeding without the muzzle.

Good luck

Sounds like some good advice right up until the point where somebody the dog doesn't see as alpha or dominant comes near the dog when feeding.

 

[Oops!!!]

If any dog you have owned for a substantial amount of time bites you to the degree that you need stitches and is not defending itself, it’s time to get rid of it!

 

[Zerolag]

Okay so I have read through most of this and all of OP's posts.
As someone who runs an animal rescue I could give you advice but the advice I give would only be applicable to the dogs I have worked with.
Every dog is different and needs something different to set them straight. Some dogs will get set straight immediately with the right stimuli or instruction. And others might need constant reinforcement like a procedure you follow to the T every single day.
And i can't say without seeing your dog exactly what that is.
So with that I would rather suggest you look at getting a behaviourist in.
You said you previously had a dog trainer in. That's all well and good if you want to train a dog how to sit, roll over, fetch etc.
And some trainers dip their toes into the most basic of behaviour teaching but often miss the mark.
So I suggest someone that is actually trained in animal behaviour.

As an animal rescue I do have a guy in Cape Town that is classically trained that I think would do the trick.
You might have to go see him a few times though since you can't usually fix a behaviour problem in one sitting.
And chances are you will have to bring him to your home at a feeding time.
I would also maybe send a video of him during these attacks.
John is a bit of an old nut that likes to smoke the devils lettuce.
BUT he is probably the most highly trained animal behaviourist in South Africa and has been on many radio shows. So he does know his stuff.

So just pop me a pm if you want me to send his details to you.

One piece of advice that I can give that might rule out or show a problem is this.
Do his eyes fully dilate when he gets aggressive? Like nearly completely black fully opened iris that you would only expect in the dark of night?
If so that could actually show a neurological issue. We had a dog come in like that. Turned out he had a lesion on his brain and he was having micro epileptic seizures. His eyes would dilate and basically he couldn't see and became aggressive.
If this is happening you actually may want to see a vet and potentially get him on epilepsy medication.

 

[Divan85]

I am going to be honest with you, I don't look deeply into her eyes when she attacks, so I don't know. I will try to see next time it happens.

The behaviorist also told us that it might be neurological. When we adopted her at 2/3 months the shelter (TAH) told us that when they found her she was riddled with worms. Her brain was infested and they honestly did not think that she would survive, but she did. She had a head tilt (head was always tilted to one side) which they attributed to the worm infestation she had. She still has a slight tilt today, but not as bad as it used to be. So yes it might be neurological.

The trainers she has (Pets4Life) are very good. I think we should be more pro-active and take her for more training sessions, since hasn't really had any. Funnily enough, when we wanted to take her for puppy training we got a quote from these trainers and we thought it was too expensive. We just bought a house and moved in so had a LOT of new expenses and money was a bit tight. We ended up going with some other useless trainer who tried to train her but she just basically ignored everything. She would listen to us at home, but whenever she was at the training she just ignored him and did what she wanted. If only we spent the extra money and took her to Pets4Life from the start they could have picked up the problem early on and it would have been easier to resolve at that young age.

 

[JackB]

might sound wrong here. But anyway

We have 2 dogs.

A female about 6 years old and a male of 5 years

they male stayed with us all his life the female only for the last year.

She was food aggressive and greedy she would eat her food and challenge him for his food.

Well my wife couldnt take it anymore as he was our baby essentially. So she gave her a hiding a few times on the back side like one would do a child

And now she no longer fights for food and she no longer takes his food.

And they are Pitbull's. Their drinking and water balls are next to each other but she does not drink or eat from his bowls and he does not drink or eat from her bowls. they are literally now like 60cm away from each other when eating and there's no fighting. maybe the occasional growl might linger but a quick hey! stops it in its tracks. She also didn't like being touched by other dogs she used to want to fight him when he got too close but now they sleep together out of preference even though they have separate beds. As the owner you need to demand respect they are animals in the wild the strongest leads the pack you need to prove to them you are the pack leader. Its the same with mother dogs and her puppies.... puppies play rough but as soon as it gets serious she will step in and place her mouth over the one she thinks is wrong to stop them and to show the pup enough is enough she is the boss.

Check this video. you can see mommy pushes away the wrong one and then places her mouth over him to show I will punish you badly and the pup will stop