A little networking help.

[JaredOzzy]

Fibre Will be coming to our house this year sometime hopefully, so i would like to prepare for the future. we have a downstairs "entertainment" area and then there is a flat that is connected to the house but closed off to this area, but the people who live in the flat have access to the downstairs router. hopefully we will get a 10 meg , maybe 20 meg. so for the scenario lets say its a 10 meg.

Well our house is setup like this.
We have 3 routers, 1 net gear from telkom, 2 trend net routers(312kpbs max) .

The main router is in the office and a cable goes downstairs to the other router, a cable goes to my brother's room to his PC and then another cable to my room where I also have a router(one cable from my room goes to my PC, one to my ps3 and one to my ps4) . The router downstairs is only used for WiFi as there is no signal downstairs and the people living in the flat also have access to use this wifi.

I have a router in my room for the WiFi to be extended and the pc and other devices that need to be connected via cable.Downstairs only WiFi is needed but sometimes a cable is used if a laptop or desktop is needed downstairs for some reason.

I would like to give downstairs about 150kbps(if I have a 10meg) upstairs 350kbps and my room 500kbps. I hope that clears some things up lol.
We also thought about getting a switch but yeah that's why I'm asking for advice.

i would like suggestions on how to go about getting this done and what routers i should get if i should consider switches and etc.
Thanks for the help guys.

 

[Sp1dr]

Well you're going to have to get a new router for the fibre anyways, and secondly, splitting up the bandwidth like that is a bit odd. Just let the router do its job, it will automatically share the connection equally between all clients.

 

[JaredOzzy]

Well you're going to have to get a new router for the fibre anyways, and secondly, splitting up the bandwidth like that is a bit odd. Just let the router do its job, it will automatically share the connection equally between all clients.

Well the tenants don't need more than they 200kbps imo as that's enough to watch YouTube and emails and Skype if needed, I don't want less bandwidth because the people in the flat are streaming movies 24/7.

And I'm greedy so I would like my PC/PS4 to be downloading as fast as possible lol. And then my brother and the rest of the house can have whatever is left over.

I guess the latter isn't necessary but I would like to be able to provide a limited bandwidth for the tenants(downstairs router)

 

[Kay150]

The router/modem that you will get with the fibre will probably be just a decent one without the bells and whistles. You can then get a switch/second router (maybe you can re-use your current ones) and then setup bandwidth control.

 

[ThatGuy_ZA]

Get a Mikrotik router and put the tenants on a seperate VLAN with bandwidth restrictions.

 

[iamgigglz]

I've found the best (cheapest/easiest) way to limit bandwidth to different sections of the house or whatever is by limiting the hardware.
For example, my tenant accesses my 50mbit fibre connection via an ethernet over power link to a wifi access point. At the end of the day that link only ever gets to about 10~12mbit anyway, so that's some natural throttling right there.

Cheap, crappy hardware introduces bottlenecks that you can use to your advantage

The arachnid makes a point though; just run everything as is with the new router and see how it goes. You might be surprised at how little of an impact your tenants make, especially if they're accessing the wifi through a wall.

 

[Rubble]

You could get a mikrotik router they have bandwidth limiting that you can do via IP address or via interface, its incredibly powerful feature-wise for the cost, just make sure you get one powerful enough CPU wise to handle all of the extra work without QOS or anything I've managed around 120Mbps on mine with firewalling and whatnot, so for what you want it should be good for more let me know if you want help, Im a (Junior) network engineer, Im keen to share i you're interested

 

[Sp1dr]

Well the tenants don't need more than they 200kbps imo as that's enough to watch YouTube and emails and Skype if needed, I don't want less bandwidth because the people in the flat are streaming movies 24/7.

And I'm greedy so I would like my PC/PS4 to be downloading as fast as possible lol. And then my brother and the rest of the house can have whatever is left over.

I guess the latter isn't necessary but I would like to be able to provide a limited bandwidth for the tenants(downstairs router)

In my experience, a badly set up qos is worse than no qos. Also, movies (especially streaming) are fairly small, around 700-1000MB or so. Steam games, 15 to 20GB. So it might be best to leave the line completely fair, their movie will download and stream in less than an hour on a 10meg line, leaving it wide open for anyone else.

I actually think that limiting yourself to 500kbps permanently will give you less overall bandwidth for your own downloads. IE, you will never get the full line speed, where in a normal home setup, where the load is pretty adhoc and unpredictable, most users will have access to a decent line speed.

Just my 2c. Don't fix your 'bad' network before you even have it.. I'm sure it won't be as bad as you think. It might actually just be cheaper to upgrade to a 20meg line than worry about setting up switches (badly) to try and do what you want.

 

[Sp1dr]

You could get a mikrotik router they have bandwidth limiting that you can do via IP address or via interface, its incredibly powerful feature-wise for the cost, just make sure you get one powerful enough CPU wise to handle all of the extra work without QOS or anything I've managed around 120Mbps on mine with firewalling and whatnot, so for what you want it should be good for more let me know if you want help, Im a (Junior) network engineer, Im keen to share i you're interested

Yeah, this is great IF you know what you're doing. Guessing the OP doesn't. It's also expensive, and would be solving a problem that doesn't even exist. Just get a faster link and you're sorted, especialy if he's getting fibre, the difference between 10 and 20mbps isn't going to break the bank

 

[Sp1dr]

I've found the best (cheapest/easiest) way to limit bandwidth to different sections of the house or whatever is by limiting the hardware.
For example, my tenant accesses my 50mbit fibre connection via an ethernet over power link to a wifi access point. At the end of the day that link only ever gets to about 10~12mbit anyway, so that's some natural throttling right there.

Cheap, crappy hardware introduces bottlenecks that you can use to your advantage

The arachnid makes a point though; just run everything as is with the new router and see how it goes. You might be surprised at how little of an impact your tenants make, especially if they're accessing the wifi through a wall.

I guess the op could be a dick and only give them wifi b.. That maxes out at 11mbps, and then there's a crap ton of protocol overhead, and add to that that wifi is only half duplex, you're left with less than half that bandwidth. Through a wall, even less. So maybe just leaving them on wifi is enough to 'naturally' throttle them.

 

[JaredOzzy]

Yeah, this is great IF you know what you're doing. Guessing the OP doesn't. It's also expensive, and would be solving a problem that doesn't even exist. Just get a faster link and you're sorted, especialy if he's getting fibre, the difference between 10 and 20mbps isn't going to break the bank

i wouldn't say i don't know what im doing lol, i know basics and stuff and like how to forward ports etc but i would like to learn more aswell as i haven't dealt with this before.

but its nice to hear the ideas and stuff, im sure there are a couple of ways of doing this thats why im asking now before the fibre is actually installed, so i can have a plan ahead or an idea for what to do.

but thanks for the replies guys, appreciate it! keep them coming!

 

[Sp1dr]

i wouldn't say i don't know what im doing lol, i know basics and stuff and like how to forward ports etc but i would like to learn more aswell as i haven't dealt with this before.

but its nice to hear the ideas and stuff, im sure there are a couple of ways of doing this thats why im asking now before the fibre is actually installed, so i can have a plan ahead or an idea for what to do.

but thanks for the replies guys, appreciate it! keep them coming!

Well if you want to learn more about networking, then get a mikrotik if you can afford it. Or if you're on the cheap, any router that you can flash open-wrt or dd-wrt on, I think a lot of the tp-link units can be flashed, but you will still need a modem.

Sorry if I came across as dismissive, it's just I've been on the other end of a badly configured Mikrotik router, was house sharing with a friend, and he was heavy into csgo and got the router to 'solve' his lag. solve it for himself he did, but screwed up everything else. Even though I was supposed to have 2mbps, I couldn't even play chess online, I would just time out.

 

[JaredOzzy]

Well if you want to learn more about networking, then get a mikrotik if you can afford it. Or if you're on the cheap, any router that you can flash open-wrt or dd-wrt on, I think a lot of the tp-link units can be flashed, but you will still need a modem.

Sorry if I came across as dismissive, it's just I've been on the other end of a badly configured Mikrotik router, was house sharing with a friend, and he was heavy into csgo and got the router to 'solve' his lag. solve it for himself he did, but screwed up everything else. Even though I was supposed to have 2mbps, I couldn't even play chess online, I would just time out.

Lol ouch, yeah I'm not sure will see pricing in a couple months.

The TP link bandwidth control options, how well will that work with other connected routers? Or will it cause IP conflict situations an etc?

 

[Sp1dr]

Lol ouch, yeah I'm not sure will see pricing in a couple months.

The TP link bandwidth control options, how well will that work with other connected routers? Or will it cause IP conflict situations an etc?

Don't read tp-link, read open-wrt. It's an open source firmware supported by many off the shelf routers. It gives you much better control than the standard firmware. There shouldn't be any IP conflicts as long as your networks are on different subnets.

 

[atunguyd]

You going to give your tenants 150kbs. Sorry but that sounds like a really douche move. That wasn't even consisted broadband in 2001, 16 years ago.

And what are you going to do with the remaining 9mbs you seem to have not catered for?

Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk

 

[JaredOzzy]

You going to give your tenants 150kbs. Sorry but that sounds like a really douche move. That wasn't even consisted broadband in 2001, 16 years ago.

And what are you going to do with the remaining 9mbs you seem to have not catered for?

Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk

150kbps is more than my current connection.
the speedtest i just did, abit low but i usually get 80-100 lol
So the current tenants are getting less than that including the rest of the house as my brother is constantly watching youtube and downloading. With 150kbps you can skype/download/browse perfectly fine as im living with that right now.

Obviously i will have the rest to my family and myself?

i think your getting confused with the kbps and mbps.

1mbps = 125kbps

 

[Sp1dr]

You going to give your tenants 150kbs. Sorry but that sounds like a really douche move. That wasn't even consisted broadband in 2001, 16 years ago.

And what are you going to do with the remaining 9mbs you seem to have not catered for?

Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk

I think he meant 150 kilo bytes per second, unless you thought he was going to give himself only 500kbps out of a 10 meg fibre line..

150 kilobytes is just over 1 mbps which is still a bit sucky if they're streaming movies

 

[Sp1dr]

i think your getting confused with the kbps and mbps.

1mbps = 125kbps

Haha, bud you're the confused one

1mbps = 125kBps (the capital means bytes, 8 bits in a byte, you get the picture)

 

[JaredOzzy]

Haha, bud you're the confused one

1mbps = 125kBps (the capital means bytes, 8 bits in a byte, you get the picture)

i was on the right track, actually didn't know about the capital tbh

 

[Phence]

Get a Mikrotik router and put the tenants on a seperate VLAN with bandwidth restrictions.

+1

Yeah, this is great IF you know what you're doing. Guessing the OP doesn't. It's also expensive, and would be solving a problem that doesn't even exist. Just get a faster link and you're sorted, especialy if he's getting fibre, the difference between 10 and 20mbps isn't going to break the bank

Mikrotik isn't expensive. You can pick a RB750 up for R3/400. If someone doesn't know what they are doing, it doesn't mean the device is bad. Mikrotik is one of the best networking products out there for many applications.

I work for an ISP and you will be very surprised what a Mikrotik can do even compared to a Cisco for example. We have them in our core as well and the funny thing is they are dirt cheap. Handy features are MAC telnet, QinQ (add as many tags as you like lol), sniffer, spectral scan etc.

Mikrotik is just as limiting as someone's understanding of it. It really is an amazing product even with a full API. Pity they don't have more routers with 5ghz radios.

sent from my phone

 

[Sp1dr]

i was on the right track, actually didn't know about the capital tbh

Don't stress it's obvious what you meant.

 

[Sp1dr]

+1

Mikrotik isn't expensive. You can pick a RB750 up for R3/400.

Didn't know that, are the cheap ones any good though?

Mikrotik is just as limiting as someone's understanding of it.

This was the point I was making, op would probably not know how to configure it properly right off the bat, he'd probably spend the first few hours on google, then read a post about how you can get the router to play the Mario tune with a script, get sidetracked showing this off to his family for a few hours, then get back to figuring the thing out.. and may not get the full potential out of it at the end of the day.

They are fantastic products though.

 

[JaredOzzy]

Alright guys so fiber is here and running, very frustrating times here actually as we cannot get everything to work correctly.

What we have:
CPE
Trendnet TW731BR routers x2
Netgear Prosafe GS108Tv2 SmartSwitch

What we want:
router 1 and 2 to connect to internet and have wifi working so there is wifi on both sides of the house, and all connected devices can access internet.

Old ADSL Setup:
ADSL connected to main Router1(located in office otherside of house-has wifi enabled)
Router2 connected to Router1
PS4/PS3/PC and other devices connected to Router2(located in my room-has wifi enabled)
Both wifi was different and worked all on same internet worked fine(internet was 1Mbps though.)

New Fibre Setup:
CPE connected to WAN on Router1
Switch connected to Router1 Ethernet Port
Router2 connected to Switch Ethernet Port
Switch connected to Router2 Ethernet Port(Doesn't work if connected in Router2 WAN Port)
Router1 auto-configured and works with internet and wifi fine.
Router2 All DHCP settings must be disabled for internet to go to connected devices(ps4 etc) and no wifi from Router2

Problem:
No wifi in my room from Router2 , this is basically the only issue.

[MENTION=25018]Sp1dr[/MENTION]




New net and old net difference!
View attachment 66531View attachment 66532

 

[Phence]

You should disable router two to work in AP mode as it could try to create another broadcast domain on the existing one of R1 hence not working. It might help even giving it a static IP and putting it on a reservation list.

Other than that I don't see how your wifi should of stopped working.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

[JaredOzzy]

One problem we were experiencing was that both routers have the same ip, so the connection was working but was dropping a lot, i changed R2 IP now it doesn't drop anymore, now we just need to get the R2 wifi working.

You should disable router two to work in AP mode as it could try to create another broadcast domain on the existing one of R1 hence not working. It might help even giving it a static IP and putting it on a reservation list.

Other than that I don't see how your wifi should of stopped working.

I see AP mode on R2 is enabled, but i can't seem to find the option of disabling AP mode.

R1 wifi works, but R2 wifi will only work if i plug the Cable into R2 WAN Port but then the internet doesn't work.

EDIT**updated firmware on R2 and the wifi seems to be working now.

 

[XYDER]

Get a Mikrotik router and put the tenants on a separate VLAN with bandwidth restrictions.

I agree with this man. get a mikrotik and create ques to split the traffic.

consumer routers QOS doesn't really work as it shapes the whole connection and there isnt a way to restrict certain traffic going in and out.

 

[Sp1dr]

sniped stuff I didn't read carefully, at work an all.


Problem:
No wifi in my room from Router2 , this is basically the only issue.

I assume, you have wifi and internet access from router2 in other parts of the house?

First just try some hygiene, make sure the wifi on router1 and router2 are on different channels, and different SSID's, and that those channels aren't occupied by your neighbors wifi, download a wifi analyzer to help you choose clean channels.

For router2, choose the lowest channel possible, 1 perhaps. It is slightly less susceptible to attenuation through walls and such. Make sure you are on 2.4ghz. 5ghz doesn't fair well over distance and through walls. Also, set the tx power to max if the router supports it. Sometimes changing the WiFI regulation Domain to USA or New Zealand, can give you a bit more power.. But, idk if that's a serious offense in SA. Bare in mind, the router's radio might not be physically capable of putting out the levels those countries allow, but it's worth a shot.

Other than that, try bring the router closer to your room, or as mentioned before, invest in a Mikrotik, they have powerful WiFi radios, and good control. You'd probably be fine with just one.