Bad deal after gpu sale

@GunShotResidue Please respond.

@TicTac In my mind, I was not ok to simply trust that the card is running fine by you telling me that the card was running in your PC that morning. I would not have proceeded with the purchase if those were the only stipulated terms. I also would have not proceeded to purchase the card if you would have said that you would only supply money back for the card if the card was tested for use in a gaming PC, as that was not my intention for the use of the card. Hence my terms are still clear: I stipulated ANY issues with testing - this most certainly encompasses use and testing in mining rig. Further to this, I made it clear to you when we met for the exchange that I wanted to use it for mining use (which you yourself have said in this thread). At that point you said nothing to change the agreed upon terms or give any indication that what you agreed to would exclude mining rig use.

Regardless of all of the above... I still don't think you understand the technical aspect of the issue here. The mobo cannot communicate with the card. Plain and simple. So it doesn't matter what rig it is if the mobo cannot boot the card.
I can provide full specs of all the systems it was tested on (already have given some details in this thread) if really necessary. However, it shouldn't be. You took on the risk of me being the one to carry out testing on the card and agreed to that. So you cannot now say that you don't know how the card was handled etc, when those aspects would always be included as part of that risk and then you should not have agreed to those terms.

You are trying to renege on the agreement we had. Please just stick to the agreed terms.

FxTreme said:

How about returning the card to the seller and have him troubleshoot first and then take it from there...

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I am not sure why this would help. This is completely outside of the scope of what we agreed upon. I will return the card for my money back as agreed, and then the seller can troubleshoot as much as he likes. The onus of that should not be on me here.

“Can I test and you’ll refund if I have issues”
“Yeah no problem”
“I have issues can you refund”
“Well yes but actually no”

Slimeball.

How do you know that when your power supply tripped and damaged the card you returning for warranty, it didn't also damage the card you trying to return. You should have informed the seller after the first rig instead of tinkering to an extent that your psu takes out a card and motherboard

@TicTac
We reached a point where I told you on WhatsApp that I would like to return the card for a refund, as I had had issues in my testing and therefore would want you to uphold the agreed upon terms where I could return the card for a refund if that were to happen.

You then said you wanted to create a thread here and see what a moderator says... and so I have complied with being involved here and supplying information that was asked and details of what has transpired.

An Administrator (and very well respected member of the community) has said twice here now that you should refund me and honor your word, based upon our agreed terms.

So I ask once again... Can I please return the card for a refund, as agreed, due to me having had issues with the card in my testing?

@GunShotResidue The facts are:
I did not sell a faulty gpu. I have showed proof of it working, and @Swish can vouch for it working.

I didn't expect you to just be okay that the gpu worked because I said so. I was willing to show you that it worked perfectly but you were not interested because it wasn't convenient for you.

I already explained that all I was guaranteeing was that I was selling a gpu in perfect working order. A gpu that had no "issues" in my PC.

Had you been clear from the start about your intentions and what you expected me to "guarantee", I would have been in a position to consider your request having all the facts.

Instead you are trying to use my words against me to suit your purposes. My words should be interpreted in the light of the information that I had at the time I said it.

If you were to ask me during the time we negotiated the deal if I would be okay with you testing the gpu in your friend's mining rigs and if you couldn't get it to work if I would be willing to:

1. Take the risk of you damaging the card during the process of "testing" it
2. Refund you

I would most definitely have chosen to sell it to someone else.
You chose to mention the mining rigs at the very last moment after money already changed hands which leads me to believe that your purposefully withheld that information when negotiating the "agreement". So my point is that you are reading things into my "agreement" that I never agreed to in the first place.

In the 11 deals I have concluded on this forum, this is the first time that my integrity has been questioned. I believe that a lack of transparency on your side has led to this situation.

As previously stated, you have refused to do further testing in a normal PC, which would have been the obvious next step where there aren't various variables that come into play in regards to mining. It appears that you are not willing to take the necessary steps of troubleshooting. At this point it feels more like a case of buyers remorse.

GunShotResidue said:

To clear up some questions asked:
On the very first mobo tried, the one shown in a screenshot I shared of the BIOS, it was the only card plugged in and was plugged directly into the x16 slot (no riser).
The second mobo (with legacy bios) only had one card in, which was removed when adding this card to test.

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GunShotResidue said:

Further to this...it was on the 3rd rig where this happened. So it is not correct to say that this happend and then tried it was tried on another two rigs. We tried it on 2 rigs and couldn't get it to boot. Only on trying it on the 3rd rig the psu tripped.

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If the card was not booting on the first mobo by its self then I assume the card had an issue. Furthermore I think a guy running multiple mining rigs will know how to test a gpu. Think all @GunShotResidue was trying to do was trouble shoot before notifying the seller, which he did so promptly.

@TicTac
I do not think you believed you were selling me a faulty GPU either, as I have stated many times. Hence I am not calling your integrity into question, should you honor our agreement and give me a refund based on what we agreed.

These are the facts:

You brought Swish into the equation only after launching this thread and the deal had gone bad. So while I see that it speaks to your integrity to do so and to try to show that you had the card working on your end before the sale (which I understand and have never actually called into question), it doesn't alter what we agreed to. What you could have done when I asked for my terms on testing the card, is to have said that you aren't comfortable for a buyer to carry out the testing phase and that you can get another, more experienced, member (such as Swish) to vouch for you that it is a working card as proof of a working card. At that point I may or may not have continued with the purchase based on those terms and then I would have assumed the risk and finding myself in my current situation, I would not be able to insist on a refund. However, that is not what transpired and not what was agreed to.

Your terms were not that you would sell it to me based on the fact that it was working on your end at the time of sale.
The terms were plain and simple when I asked "Are you ok with giving a few days to test the card and then money back if I find any issues?".
You agreed to this. It is plain to see from that agreement that you were not only guaranteeing it was a working gpu at the time of sale... what you agreed to is for me to carry out the testing and for me to able to claim back my money if I had issues in testing. (You say that I am reading things into the agreement when it is actually you that is doing so).

The above were precisely my intentions and terms and you agreed to them. I tested the card, found issues and now you won't refund me.

I'm not sure how these terms do not include the risk of a buyer possibly damaging the card in testing - although I believe I most certainly did not. I obviously need to handle the card etc in order to test it - that is only logical.

You did not stipulate to what testing I was allowed and not allowed to do in our agreement and to what extent I should test the card. My tests were logical and I would have performed these tests on any new card in order to do my very best to get the card working for me. As I have mentioned before, I tested on a second rig as I have experience with cards only working on a legacy bios and not on a UEFI bios and visa versa - google it, it is a common issue and therefore logical to test. Testing on a 3rd rig was because the first (UEFI) rig didn't have a card in at the moment before plugging in this card, so I removed a card from a machine (3rd rig) that had been running perfectly and replaced it with this purchased card to make sure it wouldn't work in a proven working setup and slot. I even then put the card back in the first rig (after the PSU trip on the 3rd) and it simply did the same thing it did the first time I plugged it into that rig - bios showed something detected in that slot but could not communicate with it or boot it. After that, I removed the card and plugged in a separate gpu I had working into this first rig and it booted perfectly fine.
These are all logical tests and shows that I went above and beyond to get the card working for me. I have been open and honest about all the testing I have performed and I could not get the card working.

I mentioned mining rigs as we were having a conversation when we met and it really actually has nothing to do with the terms agreed to.
I had issues in my testing and could not get the card working for me (I will mention once again, that if a BIOS cannot communicate with the gpu, it doesn't matter what type of rig it is - it won't work). You should therefore refund me based on the agreed terms - its plain and simple.
This is definitely not a case of buyer's remorse and I would have loved the card to work for me. I have shown an image of the bios not being able to communicate with the card. If it was a simple case of buyer's remorse, I would certainly not be going through this pain-staking exercise of trying to get you to honor your word and refund me. I would simply resell the card and be done with it. I obviously cannot go that route in good faith when I cannot get the card to work for me.

Also, I would like to know what it is you even mean buy "a normal PC"? If by that you mean a Windows based PC, then I have done that. The very first rig I put it in is Windows based and is mostly used for bench top testing of cards and for some mining on NiceHash on occasion.

I really need an Administrator or Moderator to step in again please. I now feel like this is just going in circles and the buyer is simply refusing to honor the agreement we had. What is to be done here??

@GunShotResidue don't you have someone close to you with a normal gaming rig who can test the card?

@GunShotResidue where in the Western Cape are you based?

@Toxxyc Sure, I can do that test. If the seller agrees that I can do that test..? I don't want a case again where I am told I should not have proceeded with testing further.

I'm quite sure it is going to yield the same result though, as the initial test was on a Windows based system and the BIOS could not communicate with the card to boot it. However, if it would help to resolve the matter - then I can most certainly perform that test. Please advise if I have permission to proceed with that test.

TheJudge said:

@GunShotResidue where in the Western Cape are you based?

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@TheJudge I stay in the Northern Suburbs of Cape Town but work in the South. Why do you ask?

Just my unpopular opinion - I once had a Vega 56 that no matter what I did would not boot with my motherboard at the time, I could drop that card into any other Pc and it would boot fine, I did bios updates, downgrades, you name it but any other card would work except that specific Vega.

I cannot say for sure, but hear me out here. What if said "Buyer" wants to test to see whether his motherboard is faulty or his existing GPU (Rx6800) since the system would not boot and thought the easiest way would be to purchase a GPU from someone on Carbonite and get a commitment out of them that if his (Buyer's) "Motherboard / PSU / Any other hardware is faulty and the system would still not boot with the recently bought GPU" the "Seller" would give the "Buyer" a full refund and the "buyer" can now rule out the GPU as the problem and start investigating elsewhere? - Just a thought.

The buyer should have been clear from the start and state that he wants to test compatibility and rule out any other hardware issues for the sake of mining and state that if the graphics card is not compatible with his existing mining hardware he would like a full refund.

When someone says they want to test a card and return it if there are any issues, it's safe to presume they meant issues with the card itself and not compatibility issues, if the card was sold in a working condition and the buyer refuses to send the card back for testing or even willing to test it in a normal non mining pc for which the card was initially intended for I can immediately assume he knows very well the card works in any other system besides his own but wants to make his problem that of the seller.

I am looking at the scenario from an unbiased point of view, I bought my VEGA56 and it failed to boot, it ended up costing me to buy a new motherboard and was not the Seller's fault.

Come on man, do the right thing, if the GPU works then assume responsibility and sell it on Carb again, do not make this the Seller's problem if your hardware might not be compatible and if the card does not work in a normal gaming rig then send it back to the seller to do testing and refund you if he cannot get it to work.

Peace out.

GunShotResidue said:

@TheJudge I stay in the Northern Suburbs of Cape Town but work in the South. Why do you ask?

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I'm in the South in Claremont but would offer to test in an i5 7400 spare system here if it helps resolve this and the card can be brought to me. The board has run RX cards before with zero issues.

The_True_Stefan said:

Just my unpopular opinion - I once had a Vega 56 that no matter what I did would not boot with my motherboard at the time, I could drop that card into any other Pc and it would boot fine, I did bios updates, downgrades, you name it but any other card would work except that specific Vega.

I cannot say for sure, but hear me out here. What if said "Buyer" wants to test to see whether his motherboard is faulty or his existing GPU (Rx6800) since the system would not boot and thought the easiest way would be to purchase a GPU from someone on Carbonite and get a commitment out of them that if his (Buyer's) "Motherboard / PSU / Any other hardware is faulty and the system would still not boot with the recently bought GPU" the "Seller" would give the "Buyer" a full refund and the "buyer" can now rule out the GPU as the problem and start investigating elsewhere? - Just a thought.

The buyer should have been clear from the start and state that he wants to test compatibility and rule out any other hardware issues for the sake of mining and state that if the graphics card is not compatible with his existing mining hardware he would like a full refund.

When someone says they want to test a card and return it if there are any issues, it's safe to presume they meant issues with the card itself and not compatibility issues, if the card was sold in a working condition and the buyer refuses to send the card back for testing or even willing to test it in a normal non mining pc for which the card was initially intended for I can immediately assume he knows very well the card works in any other system besides his own but wants to make his problem that of the seller.

I am looking at the scenario from an unbiased point of view, I bought my VEGA56 and it failed to boot, it ended up costing me to buy a new motherboard and was not the Seller's fault.

Come on man, do the right thing, if the GPU works then assume responsibility and sell it on Carb again, do not make this the Seller's problem if your hardware might not be compatible and if the card does not work in a normal gaming rig then send it back to the seller to do testing and refund you if he cannot get it to work.

Peace out.

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@The_True_Stefan Thanks for your input. I certainly value an unbiased opinion and it is an interesting scenario you describe having happened to you.

Not sure if my previous response had been approved before you wrote this message but I think I provide clarity in there to show that what you describe is simply not the case for me. I most certainly agree that when I said issues, I meant issues with the card and definitely not compatibility issues. This is precisely why I tried it in more than one rig - to be sure it wasn't a compatibility issue.

I have also now said that I will do a test in a normal gaming rig if I have the sellers permission to do so in order to resolve the matter.

I so wish that I could rather just sell the card on to someone else (as stated in my previous post) due to a compatibility issue. That would make life far simpler than trying to get my money back from the seller at this point. How can I possibly do that though, if I can't get the card to boot on 3 different systems??

I think you can understand my apprehension at this point to return the card to the seller to perform testing? I could then be left with no card and my money gone. Sure, at the moment I can't do much with the card anyway... but if the seller truly refuses to refund my money, then I can at least try take it somewhere to have it repaired or open it up to check for a short circuit or something. I cannot possibly do those things at this stage, as surely that would immediately mean I am no longer entitled to any kind of refund (breaking the warranty seals on the back screws). I wouldn't do that for a new card where I have a warranty and definitely don't think the seller would want me doing that and still provide a refund.

Besides this, it was agreed that it would be a refund based on issues with my testing - not if he can get it working or not.

I really wish it was the case that you mentioned here Stefan, as I really would just sell the card on then. GPUs are flying off the shelves and that would be far easier to do, if I could actually get the card to boot (having tried on 3 different systems to ensure it is not a compatibility issue).

TheJudge said:

I'm in the South in Claremont but would offer to test in an i5 7400 spare system here if it helps resolve this and the card can be brought to me. The board has run RX cards before with zero issues.

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@TheJudge That is a very helpful suggestion.

Firstly, just to check, do you know TicTac? (to ensure there is no conflict of interest).

I would also just like to know what happens as a result of this testing then? As far as I see it, there are two scenarios:

1. The card doesn't boot on your system. Another failed test and then I still want to return the card for my money back.
2. The card somehow boots fine in your system. I still had issues in my testing and not comfortable running this card and would like to return the card for my money back, as we agreed that if I had any issues, I could return the card.

So it seems either way I should still be entitled to ask for my money back? Perhaps this exercise would just put everyone's mind at ease that the card has been tested by an independent party though? Not sure?

@Toxxyc This is actually also pertinent to the request to do a test on a gaming PC - what happens if the card does or doesn't boot on that system?

GunShotResidue said:

@TheJudge That is a very helpful suggestion.

Firstly, just to check, do you know TicTac? (to ensure there is no conflict of interest).

I would also just like to know what happens as a result of this testing then? As far as I see it, there are two scenarios:

1. The card doesn't boot on your system. Another failed test and then I still want to return the card for my money back.
2. The card somehow boots fine in your system. I still had issues in my testing and not comfortable running this card and would like to return the card for my money back, as we agreed that if I had any issues, I could return the card.

So it seems either way I should still be entitled to ask for my money back? Perhaps this exercise would just put everyone's mind at ease that the card has been tested by an independent party though? Not sure?

@Toxxyc This is actually also pertinent to the request to do a test on a gaming PC - what happens if the card does or doesn't boot on that system?

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Fair question and nope, don't know him/her at all.

And for the sake of resolving things, if the i5 releases the magic smoke I won't hold either of you responsible. The forum has given me a lot so time to give something back. I can say that the system was recently used (presently has the PSU out) but the PSU is a new one and was just used for testing in a Ryzen 1600 system with RX 480 4Gb so upto the task. Is a Corsair VS 550.

@GunShotResidue I am based in the Northern Suburbs with a 3700x setup that I can also use to test the card if you want.
Don't know either of you so no conflict of interest here.

GunShotResidue said:

bios showed something detected in that slot but could not communicate with it or boot it.

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Yeah the card might be faulty but also you could've tried loading a mining bios and stuffed it up (Which can be fixed btw). And still why won't you return the card to the seller so he can test it in his system where it was previously working fine? This could've been sorted already..

GunShotResidue said:

I think you can understand my apprehension at this point to return the card to the seller to perform testing? I could then be left with no card and my money gone. Sure, at the moment I can't do much with the card anyway... but if the seller truly refuses to refund my money, then I can at least try take it somewhere to have it repaired or open it up to check for a short circuit or something. I cannot possibly do those things at this stage, as surely that would immediately mean I am no longer entitled to any kind of refund (breaking the warranty seals on the back screws). I wouldn't do that for a new card where I have a warranty and definitely don't think the seller would want me doing that and still provide a refund.

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@FxTreme Please see this quote above from one of my previous messages. I have already provided an answer to this question. If I was ok with the seller being the one to do the testing on the card, then I would have agreed to those terms in the first place.
Also, a possible scenario is that the seller flashed the GPU bios in order to mine (he would have had to do so to get the hash rate he showed in the picture he sent). Then messed things up when restoring the bios. For instance if you restore the bios wrongly, the card will run fine until you reboot it and then it will have the issue I am having and won't boot. I did absolutely nothing to the bios and wanted to get the card to boot and run normally before taking anything further - I could not get it to boot in the first place.

At this stage I would far prefer an independent party to perform any further test - I think that is fair to both me and the seller.

I am still awaiting on a response for what actually will transpire after the independent testing though. I want it clear upfront as to what scenario would entitle me to my refund and what scenario wouldn't (not that I think there should be such a scenario at this point, based on the agreed terms... but I will lean on the experience of the Administrators and Moderators to clarify this aspect).

@Thanatos_ZA Thanks very much! I appreciate that offer and might take you up on it, once I have feedback on what the results of this next testing would mean for the deal.

One question, don't these cards run dual BIOS?

TheJudge said:

One question, don't these cards run dual BIOS?

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@TheJudge I actually didn't investigate that yet on this particular card and purely used it as received.

I don't currently have the card in my office right now so I can't check, but it does seem like there may be a side switch to toggle to a second bios (if the bios is indeed the problem). Certainly worth checking this out - I had thought this card too old to have that feature, thanks!

I will still wait to hear if I have permission to perform further tests from preferably both an Administrator and the seller. If they are happy for us to test this, then perhaps we can try both switch positions if I come to test it with you.

Nitro Cards does have a Dual Bios..

Hi all, sorry for the delayed response.

GunShotResidue said:

Also, a possible scenario is that the seller flashed the GPU bios in order to mine (he would have had to do so to get the hash rate he showed in the picture he sent).

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I never attempted to change any bios settings. The card achieved that hashrate by only adjusting the core and memory clock in afterburner. The bios on the card is exactly how I received it.

I do agree that testing by a party with no conflict of interest is a good idea. Thanks for the offers @TheJudge @Thanatos_ZA

TheJudge said:

One question, don't these cards run dual BIOS?

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Correct, there is a dip switch on the side that switches it between quiet and performance mode according to the Sapphire website.

@TicTac Great stuff...at least we agree that an independent 3rd party test is a good idea.

Can we please agree to the terms for that testing though (upfront) as stated in one of my responses above? I certainly don't want any confusion between us going into this testing. In what scenario (if not both) will you refund my money and take the card back and in what scenario wouldn't you?

@TicTac Please respond so that I can organise with one of these generous members to test with them and resolve this matter.

I won't agree to terms of testing (upfront).

Let the card be tested.

The 2 scenarios I foresee are as follows:

1. The card boots up
2. The card does not boot, proving that the card has been damaged after changing hands, ( as previously stated I have proof that I sold a working card ) probably in the same manner the RX 6800 has been damaged by the power supply tripping.

interro said:

How do you know that when your power supply tripped and damaged the card you returning for warranty, it didn't also damage the card you trying to return.

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Neither of these scenarios warrant a refund.

Admin/moderator please help me out here.

The seller hasn't responded at all for 2 days now... Where to from here?

I'm doing my level best to get this matter resolved but it has now been more than a week since I received the card, in testing found I couldn't get it to boot and the seller simply refuses to honor the terms of our agreement to refund me.

TicTac said:

I won't agree to terms of testing (upfront).

Let the card be tested.

The 2 scenarios I foresee are as follows:

1. The card boots up
2. The card does not boot, proving that the card has been damaged after changing hands, ( as previously stated I have proof that I sold a working card ) probably in the same manner the RX 6800 has been damaged by the power supply tripping.


Neither of these scenarios warrant a refund.

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Oh my goodness... what on earth is the point of the test then?

This is precisely why I asked for this feedback upfront because I knew this seller is going to try wriggle his way out of refunding me regardless of what I do at this point. Why did he even agree to a 3rd party test at this point?
Previously he stated he is of the opinion that this is just "buyer's remorse"... implying he thinks the card is fine and I simply just don't like it and want to return it. Now he's changing tack once again with what he says.
Nothing about what I have said in this entire thread has been unclear and I have been open and honest about everything that has transpired and what we agreed to.

At this stage if I can get the card to boot up, with a 3rd party testing, then for me that is happy days and I can at least sell the card on then (as it unfortunately doesn't work in my rigs) and won't go through this pain-staking task of trying to get this seller to honour our agreement.

However, if the card simply won't boot, then I still want my refund... as agreed.
The PSU trip happened on only my 3rd test (the card wouldn't boot at all on two different tests before that point even). There was also a 3rd card in that machine when the PSU tripped, as I have explained before and it is working perfectly fine after the test. After that 3rd test, I plugged this card in question back into the 1st rig too and it behaved in the exact same manner as the first test - simply wouldn't boot but caused no tripping or anything else untoward.

The seller also requested that I test it in a gaming rig (after all my testing was already explained). Now when an independent party has offered to perform that test, he still says he won't refund, no matter the outcome.
The initial terms were clear and simple, in that if I had issues with my testing then he would refund me. They were most certainly not that the seller is guaranteeing that it is a working card at time of sale (which I don't think there is even sufficient proof of anyway - not that it matters, those weren't the agreed terms.)

Admin/Moderator.... please help??
(Apologies for my previous message stating the seller hadn't responded - his response had obviously not yet been approved by a moderator at the time I sent that message).