Bad deal after gpu sale

[TicTac]

Deal Thread URL:https://carbonite.co.za/index.php?threads/sapphire-rx480-8gb-nitro.370565/#post-2454907
Seller: (@TicTac )
Buyer: (@GunShotResidue )
Description of Bad Deal:

I recently sold a Sapphire RX480 8GB Nitro+. Perfectly working, solid card. Played a game on it the day before the sale. Mined with it for a week and decided mining is not for me.
Anyways, buyer messages me today, asking for a refund because the card is now "faulty" after he's tested it in 3 different mining rigs, frying a motherboard and gpu.

I have proof of it working in my system. Also have proof of it mining ETH at 28MH/s

How do I know buyer has not damaged it? I don't want it back and have it damage my components. What to do?

@Andrew_Smith

 

[ScorpioMan]

@GunShotResidue , your input is required

 

[GunShotResidue]

Please note that we agreed in pm on a testing period and that I would be allowed to get my money back if I wasn't happy with the purchase. I am merely trying to ask for us to go that route.
I also communicated that the psu tripped which in turn damaged the mobo and other gpu mentioned here and this did not happen in the other two rigs in testing. However in all rigs tested, I was not able to use the card and just asking to return the card for money back, as agreed. I do not believe that there was any intention to sell me something faulty but it hasn't worked out and I want to return it as agreed.

 

[ScorpioMan]

@GunShotResidue i am trying to understand the relevance of the psu tripped and damaged mobo.

Was the card in question on the mobo when this happened ?

 

[TicTac]

The buyer messaged me asking: "Are you ok with giving me a few days to test the card and then money back if I find any issues"

I agreed as I just removed the gpu from my pc where it was working perfectly and I was confident that it was working 100%

I was prepared for the buyer to come collect the graphics card from my place where I could show him it was working, but we then agreed on meeting at a mall close by as it would be more convenient for the buyer.

When we met up, the buyer told me he plans on using the card for mining in his friend's mining rig as he has an open slot. Adding a third party to the equation.

The buyer messaged me today asking for a refund because the card was "faulty."

I started giving the buyer suggestions to try, as it might have been drivers not installing, as I've had a similar issue when buying a second hand 1060 off carb, which was then resolved by leaving it running for a while.

The buyer then tells me that he tried it in 3 different mining rigs where the one power supply might have been overloaded when the card was added, damaging a motherboard and graphics card. Thereafter it would not boot on 2 other rigs.

I then asked if the buyer tested it in anything other than a mining rig, such as a normal desktop computer. The buyer did not want to try it elsewhere because of the other motherboard and graphics card being damaged.

After this discussion the buyer kept asking for a refund based on our agreement of him testing the card and seeing if he finds any issues.

I have no way of knowing what might have happened to the card following our deal, and don't want a damaged card back when I sold a 100% working card.

 

[GunShotResidue]

To answer the moderator, yes...the gpu was on the mobo when the psu tripped.

Further to this...it was on the 3rd rig where this happened. So it is not correct to say that this happend and then tried it was tried on another two rigs. We tried it on 2 rigs and couldn't get it to boot. Only on trying it on the 3rd rig the psu tripped.

The tripping of the psu could certainly have nothing to do with the card and I merely asking for money back after attempts at testing that were unsuccessful...as agreed with the seller.

I asked for a few days of testing and have given this feedback after only one day. Really wish the deal could have worked out, but it hasn't and I would simply like to return what was given to me for the money I paid...as per the agreed upon terms.

 

[veez007]

I see pics of a working gpu sent but there is nothing indicating its for that gpu, has there are no time or dates on those pics.

 

[ScorpioMan]

@TicTac please provide proof of the card working prior shipping.
@GunShotResidue did you only inform the seller that the card isnt working after the third rig test that tripped ?

Logically you should have informed the seller that the card doesnt pickup on the first mining rig or pc, and you guys can work around it from there.
Testing on a second rig and then a third rig that takes out a motherboard and another gpu makes it difficult to conclusively decide that the card had issues to start with or the tripping psu took it out.

Nonetheless one or both of you guys need to upload screenshots of the conversation regarding this deal.

 

[TicTac]

@ScorpioMan86 20210629_095658.jpg

Image is from the morning prior to the sale. 29/06/2021 - 09:56.
Between this image and the sale the gpu was packaged in the original packaging inside an anti static bag and sat in the box on my desk up until I went to meet up with the buyer.
Sale happened 30/06/2021 around 5pm.

 

[TicTac]

@ScorpioMan86 Screenshot_20210701-231055_WhatsApp.jpg

Image of the conversation from today

 

[GunShotResidue]

@ScorpioMan86 Yes, I did only inform the seller after trying it on the 3rd rig. I really wanted to believe there was something wrong on my end. So didn't want to bother the seller and checking it in other rigs seemed logical to make sure that I definitely can't get the card working.
Did manage to get the mobo running again last night, which is great.
I really don't blame the this card for taking out things on the 3rd rig. As I said... it didn't do anything on the other 2... I just couldn't get it running. I really think it was just the psu tripping. Whether or not it was the addition of this card in question that caused the psu trip, I cannot say. I even plugged the card back into one of the first two rigs now. It causes no trip there and everything starts up but I still can't get this particular card to boot (same thing it did originally in that rig).

Perhaps another thing that may be relevant, is that when we met to make the sale, I asked if there had ever been any issues with this card. He said that he had never had an issue but did inform me that it was a RMA card and that the paperwork for the RMA was in the box. At that point I was still happy to continue with the sale though - knowing that we had agreed for him to let me test it for a few days first.

I simply couldn't get this card to work for me and want to return for money back, as agreed.
I'm supplying links here to screenshots I uploaded to my google drive - parts that are pertinent to this discussion (I'm only leaving out the arrangements for us to meet up to make the sale). (I can't seem to get the image link working for some reason, hence supplying the direct link to view it on Drive).

Screenshot1
Screenshot2

 

[GunShotResidue]

One more thing to mention, as to further explain why I tested on other rigs after it didn't boot on the first...
I have had experience where certain cards won't boot on a UEFI bios mobo but will boot on a legacy bios. The first rig was UEFI and 2nd was legacy and for the 3rd, thought I'd try a different mobo that was also UEFI.

 

[TicTac]

I see pics of a working gpu sent but there is nothing indicating its for that gpu, has there are no time or dates on those pics.

RX480 8GB Images – Google Drive

drive.google.com

To clear up any confusion. A time stamp of the pic with the card in afterburner and a time stamp of a photo I took right after I took it out of my pc.

 

[disipher]

Can I ask, have you tried it, in a normal pc? not a mining rig, from my understanding,
The GPU went from a normal PC to a mining rig, lots of variables between the change of hands,
Btw, I have no clue how mining rigs work, I just know, the bios's and all that are tweaked from conventional pcs

 

[GunShotResidue]

Can I ask, have you tried it, in a normal pc? not a mining rig, from my understanding,
The GPU went from a normal PC to a mining rig, lots of variables between the change of hands,
Btw, I have no clue how mining rigs work, I just know, the bios's and all that are tweaked from conventional pcs

I have not tried it in a normal PC, no. But it should make no difference... the card doesn't boot at all when plugged into the mobo. So no bios settings of the card have attempted to be adjusted at all, as I could not get the card to even boot up to do so.
Regardless, I want the card for mining use. So if I can't get it to work for me for that use, then I should be able to return it for my money back as per the agreed terms in the screenshot I sent (money back after a few days of testing).
If it works for a gaming rig, then wonderful - someone else can buy it for that use. I don't want it for that and just reverting to the terms we had agreed upon for this sale.

 

[GunShotResidue]

I see pics of a working gpu sent but there is nothing indicating its for that gpu, has there are no time or dates on those pics.

I also agree with this - thank you for pointing this out. Even showing a timestamp does not provide proof that it is for this particular card. There is no way to reference the card serial number etc from what was provided.

Again, regardless of this... within my agreed upon testing phase I have found that I cannot get the card working for me and so I would like to return the card for my money back. I don't see why it shouldn't be as simple as that, when that is what both parties agreed to - as can be seen in the screenshots I sent.

 

[ScorpioMan]

@TicTac and @GunShotResidue thank you for the uploading the conversation linked to this deal.

@GunShotResidue are you able to test the card in a non mining rig setup ?

"It causes no trip there and everything starts up but I still can't get this particular card to boot (same thing it did originally in that rig)."

Is the card not being detected at all ?

Your first message to the seller says you would like to return the card because it seems faulty, but this is after being tried in two systems including the one that tripped. I can understand the seller's apprehension towards taking back a card that might have developed an issue which wasnt there when he shipped it.

Either way the card needs to be tested properly.

If the card works in standard system but not mining rig, then the card can be resold.

@TicTac does the card still have warranty ?

 

[TicTac]

@ScorpioMan86 I purchased the card from @Jaco_P and as far as I know the card's warranty expired. Perhaps @Jaco_P can shed some light

 

[Toy Machine]

If I may,

I think the motherboards and configs (x amount of amd, x amount of nvidia cards) might be relevant here since it is known that mining mobo's only accommodate a certain number of each brand. i.e I know the BTC 250 12-slot board only takes 6 of each, so having 7/8 of one brand will not bring the board to post & there may be some variance to that in your board(s) is still posting but you cannot get the card in question working.

Also, does the card boot & mine/work when it is the only card plugged into the rig or have you only tested it whilst your other cards are installed?

lastly, I very much doubt this but does the system have enough RAM installed?

 

[GunShotResidue]

@ScorpioMan86
As mentioned in a previous message I sent just now, the mobo bios itself cannot boot the card. So it doesn't matter if the rig is geared for mining or not - the card won't boot. This is how it was from the get go, on the very first system where nothing tripped. Even after the PSU trip on another rig... putting it back in the first rig, the system starts but shows again that the card can't boot.
The mobo bios shows that the PCI slot does detect something in the slot but that it cannot communicate with it (the pci slot turns red in this case). Here is an image of this from the bios:
Bios image

I also understand the apprehension from the buyer, if it truly was working on his end. What I don't understand is that we both agreed that the testing would be done on my end and that if I had issues, then I could return for my money back (please again refer to this screenshot). We both agreed to this and he is now wanting to renege on those terms.

 

[PaladinLaw]

I hope this helps but if @GunShotResidue could Perhaps confirm a few things it may help clear some stuff up.

1. How many other cards are there in each mining rig? There are hundreds if not thousands of posts online about cards not being picked up and some mining "hackery" needed to read all cards. Usually starts happening when adding a 6th or 7th card, but can start happening with less.

1.B. Have you tested it in one of the rigs alone, ie, no other cards plugged in / connected.

2. What size psu is in the third rig, and how many of what cards are connected there? It's very possible that the psu tripped due to overload, ie, too many cards connected needing more power than the psu could provide.

Cheers

 

[Swish]

I find it strange how a motherboard and another GPU could die from a new GPU being installed. Sounds like overloading as @TicTac mentioned.

I know for a fact that RX480 8GB was working at the time of sale. @TicTac is a very good friend of mine, and I know he would not be out to screw anyone over. I'd put my entire rep on it too.

Either way, I think more testing needs to be done on your end. Mining rigs are finicky. I currently have a RX580 that is pushing 10mh/s less on btc just because its in another PC. That RX480 was working, and likely still is. Just give it a try in another PC, alone. DDU, latest drivers, the works.

 

[GunShotResidue]

Hi All,

To clear up some questions asked:
On the very first mobo tried, the one shown in a screenshot I shared of the BIOS, it was the only card plugged in and was plugged directly into the x16 slot (no riser).
The second mobo (with legacy bios) only had one card in, which was removed when adding this card to test.

3rd rig (where the PSU tripped):
PSU used: 1200W EVGA 80+ platinum
Other cards installed at the time, when adding the new card: 6800 and 5700xt, all on 6pin PCIe risers (not SATA); so 3 cards were installed in total. Removed a card (vega 5600) from a slot on riser to plug in this card to test - so the slot was previously working with 3 cards installed.

@Swish I never claimed that plugging the card in is what caused a dead mobo and GPU. I merely stated what happened - the PSU tripped when turning on the rig and at that point couldn't reboot the PC and found the 6800 would no longer boot up. Any damage here would almost certainly have been from the tripping of the PSU and not directly from the card. I also have noted that I got the mobo running again and hopefully getting the other card sorted through a warranty claim as it was bought new - so I really have no issues here from a damage perspective, albeit unfortunate.
I also don't think TicTac was out to screw me over either - which I noted in messages to him. I bear no ill feelings for what has transpired at all and he certainly seems like a great guy. It simply is unfortunate that when I tested, it would not boot for me. We had an agreement and I just want him to stick to that agreement.
Again, if it works on another system that's fantastic for whomever it works for... but it didn't work for me in my testing and we agreed that if I found any issues when I tested, I would be able to get my money back.

 

[GunShotResidue]

Can I please get a moderator to weigh in at this point?

I believe my terms were very clear cut before the sale took place here and I am just wanting us to stick to those terms. For those that perhaps didn't want to click links to view the screenshots from messages, my exact wording was:
"Are you ok with giving a few days to test the card and then money back if I find any issues?" The seller agreed to these terms.

The terms are clear and concise, except perhaps the stipulated time period within which I can test, as said to be "a few days". However, I contacted the seller the very next day after the purchase, so that definitely falls within "a few days".

When the seller agreed to these terms, he assumed all risk for me to carry out testing of the card on my end and that if I had ANY issues I would be able to get my money back. I have given details that I most definitely had an issue in my testing, so now I would like my money back and I will return the card.
The seller should not have agreed to the terms if he was not going to stick to them and if he wanted the sale to be based on testing on his side, then he should have insisted on that before going ahead with this sale.

 

[Ageless_ZA]

@TicTac You agreed to the testing terms. @GunShotResidue has been honest and open about all testing done so far.

As such, stick to your word and refund the guy. It is the right thing to do.

 

[TicTac]

@TicTac You agreed to the testing

As such, stick to your word and refund the guy. It is the right thing to do.

I did agree to the buyer testing the card, correct. However, the buyer refused to do further testing of the card in a normal rig. I can't be held accountable if the card doesn't work in the buyer's specific mining rig when it does in fact work in a normal desktop pc.

If he gets the card working in a normal desktop pc, then I believe he can resell it himself as at that point it's user error and not the card's issue.

We didn't agree to "If i can't get it mining, i want my money back"

There's proof of the card mining. There could be countless variables in the buyer's mining rig, which in my opinion does not warrant a refund.

 

[GunShotResidue]

@TicTac I don't think you understand the technicalities of the issue I have had in my testing. It doesn't matter what type of rig it was, when the motherboard bios does not register communication to the card and cannot boot it. It has been tried in more than one motherboard and would not boot at all (which I shouldn't have had to even do after I couldn't get it to boot on even one mobo, based on our agreed terms).

Furthermore, what you agreed to, is to refund for ANY issues I experienced in testing on my side. The wording is pretty clear on this. You were even made aware at the time of sale that I was going to use it for mining use (not that it matters).
Again, the terms were: ANY issue on my tests and you would refund. It is pretty clear cut that you should refund me here. Please stick to your word.

 

[FxTreme]

How about returning the card to the seller and have him troubleshoot first and then take it from there...

 

[Ageless_ZA]

I did agree to the buyer testing the card, correct. However, the buyer refused to do further testing of the card in a normal rig. I can't be held accountable if the card doesn't work in the buyer's specific mining rig when it does in fact work in a normal desktop pc.

If he gets the card working in a normal desktop pc, then I believe he can resell it himself as at that point it's user error and not the card's issue.

We didn't agree to "If i can't get it mining, i want my money back"

There's proof of the card mining. There could be countless variables in the buyer's mining rig, which in my opinion does not warrant a refund.

In your own words "Yeah, no problem" when he asked if there were issues, would you refund.

I believe he has tried his best to make it work for him and has not been successful.

So honour your word?

 

[TicTac]

The conversation with the buyer was initiated after an add was placed on the forum. I shared that the gpu was in my pc the same morning, and that everything was working fine. In the chat where the “money back if I find any issues” comment came up, it was never mentioned that the card would be used in a dedicated mining rig. I could with confidence state that I would take it back, as I knew that it was working perfectly in a desktop pc and that no “issues” would be likely, if used in another desktop pc.

The issues that were mentioned by the buyer was as a result of the card being installed in dedicated mining rigs only. The fact that it was put into 3 different rigs of unknown specifications, with unknown operating software brings a number of questions to mind. The warranty implied was not a blanket warranty. The details of the “issues” were never specified and if the buyer had indicated that the gpu would be used in a dedicated mining rig, I would not have agreed to “take it back if you have any issues”, as I understand that there are numerous variables which could affect the outcome.

My comment on taking the gpu back was based on it being used in a desktop pc, for normal gaming purposes, since no indication was given that it would be used for other purposes. The comment to test the card for a few days in this case, in my mind, therefore meant for instance artifacts during games, or display port issues. Should I be wronged by taking back the gpu after not knowing how it was handled by the buyer and his friend with the mining rigs? The variables are so many, that I feel that I am unable trust the integrity of the gpu, after what the buyer said they did to it.

I am being asked to honour my words which never included me warranting the gpu for mining rig related issues.