Bad deal with @dave9608 (Corsair K70 MK2)

[spydr97]

Deal Thread URL: Corsair K70 MK2 MX-SPEED Switches
Seller: @dave9608
Buyer: @spydr97
Description of Bad Deal:

I will attempt to keep this as short as possible and have attached a chat export below along with links to the media within the export itself. I redacted all personal info I can see but if a Carb admin requires an unredacted version please reach out and I will send it through. I have not exported Carb PMs since I assume that admins have DB access to view them but if not I'll add a follow-up.

TL;DR: Seller sold me a K70 with an LED issue that he was aware of but did not disclose in the sale thread & private communication and expects to receive the keyboard first before refunding.

I reached out to the seller on Thursday regarding the linked K70 (condition excellent as per sale thread) and requested some photos (to ascertain that he actually had the keyboard in his possession). We agreed to the deal and I made the payment (immediate Capitec -> Capitec) and booked courier collection that evening.

The keyboard was picked up by TCG on Friday morning, and received on my end on Friday afternoon since it was GP -> GP. Upon receiving the package, the keyboard was packed in the original box but with only a single piece of clear tape over the edge of the box (18mm I think but didn't measure it). I would have hoped for something more tamper-proof since it was being sent by courier and that could easily have been removed and replaced but the contents seemed fine so no harm no foul there.

I had to jump onto work calls right after that but informed the seller that the package had arrived. I only got around to testing later that evening and immediately noticed there was an issue with the backlight on the F2 key. I switched to a while color profile and noticed that in addition to that issue there were several other keys with LED discoloration. I notified the seller of this and provided pictures of the issue as well as comparative images from my current K70 LUX (issue-free; 8 years old) to highlight the difference.

We attempted some rudimentary debugging steps* but the issue seems to be on the board itself. We agreed on a refund as a result, and this is where things started to go sideways.

The seller expects me to return the keyboard first before receiving a refund. I feel this is unfair for several reasons.
- The refund is not due to buyer remorse but rather due to an issue with the keyboard that the seller chose not to disclose (05/01/2024, 20:50 - WhatsApp chat - seller admits to noticing the issue beforehand)
- I paid the seller first before receiving the item, so I would expect the seller to extend the same level of trust and courtesy, especially given the fact that I have a substantially higher iTrader (9 vs 163)
- I have no guarantee that the seller will uphold his end of the arrangement and trust has already been broken based on the misrepresentation of the condition

It also seems like the seller expects me to cover the courier cost since he avoided/ignored the question when I asked how the return would be handled (06/01/2024, 11:55 - WhatsApp chat). This puts me even further out of pocket for an issue that resulted from the seller omitting relevant condition info from the sale thread.

This thread might be a bit premature, but we have reached an impasse in private chat, and I feel that the best way forward to get this resolved amicably without wasting everyone's time is to get some admin oversight going forward.

My desired resolution is to get a full refund before the keyboard leaves me and have the seller cover the cost of the courier (or arrange the collection himself, either in person or via courier). If this is unreasonable then I will accept that and move on, but I feel that given the circumstances, it's not an unreasonable request.

* - swapping keycaps, inspecting for dust, iCUE reinstall, different PC, different USB ports -> italics recommended by seller; normal attempted by me

Link to WhatsApp chat: WhatsApp Chat with [REDACTED].txt

I've made all drive links public and added everything I can think of but if anything else is needed from my side, please let me know. I will be unavailable for a few hours this evening for something important on my end, but I will get to anything that needs to be handled as soon as I can.

I would also appreciate some feedback from the admin team regarding whether this constitutes a negative or neutral rating since there's always differing opinions on that and it would be my first non-positive review given and don't want to go too crazy with it.

 

[dave9608]

Here is how the deal went from my POV.

On my last bump for this keyboard, I dropped the price down to R1000. I quickly got attention of 2 potential buyers, the first buyer, @spydr97 contacted me asking whether it was indeed the low profile keyboard on the link provided, I didn't realise it was the low profile version that I provided with the Evetech link. I quickly fixed the link to reflect the correct link and I let the buyer know that it wasn't the low profile version.

When I got home I from work I sent pictures of the keyboard and the buyer was happy with buying the keyboard even though it wasn't the low profile one.

Everything went smooth here, TCG came the next morning I packaged the keyboard in the same packaging received from Evetech and taped the box close. I didn't think this was an issue as this is how I received it from Evetech.

I got a message that the keyboard arrived and that the buyer checked if everything is fine, everything seemed good. The buyer then informed me that they will test and provide feedback later that evening.

That evening I received a message regarding the F2 being a bit dim as well as the Tab and D key showing slightly red, here is the image for reference as posted by the buyer -> link for image

Link for Corsair keyboards having this issue -> link

Prior to this sale, while I owned the keyboard, I have noticed the F2 being slightly more dimm than the other keys, I did a quick google search and saw that this was quite common with Corsair keyboards (some keys being more dimm and maybe sometimes being other colors) and accepted that this is how Corsair shipped them and I accepted it as this being just how it is.

After receiving the image, I did some research online and saw that people recommended to check if there might be some dust or the keycap being dirty and recommended that the buyer maybe try that to see if it maybe resolves the issue. This didn't resolve the issue, the issue still persisted for the buyer.

Anyways, from here I asked the buyer whether the buyer would like to return the keyboard and the buyer agreed, I requested that I would like to get the keyboard shipped prior to refunding the payment, just to be able to check whether everything is still working fine.

For the buyer this was a big no as the buyer found me to not be trustworthy with my low iTrader score which is understandable but I didn't feel the iTrader scores had anything to do with the sale/return of the keyboard as I felt my request wasn't unreasonable. So here it was requested that I refund the money, and pay for the return shipping prior to receiving the keyboard.

I didn't feel comfortable with this as I feel the issue with the LED light being slightly less dim wasn't as big of an issue for a second hand keyboard that is 3 years old and seeing this is how I received it initially and now I was at risk for a broken keyboard or potentially something going wrong with the return shipment and that then being on me.

I also feel from the buyers side, that if the keyboards LED lights were such a big concern that an image of the keyboard being plugged in is also expected to be requested before continuing with the purchase, especially seeing that this was an issue the buyer had with a previous seller where the RGB wasn't as the buyer expected.

At the end of the day, this keyboard is second hand, I rated the keyboards condition as excellent because I never had issues with it and used it daily, I look after my PC possessions. For me the keyboard still feels and looks the same as the day I bought it.

------------------------------------------

From here, a bad deal thread was opened regarding my sale and here we are. I really do want to keep my carbonite reputation intact and thus I messaged the buyer tonight. I gave the buyer the option to refund the money and me paying for the return shipping for the keyboard. That would mean the buyer paid 1 shipping and I paid the other.

The buyer now expects me to pay both the shipping costs as I have wasted the buyers time. What the buyer doesn't take into consideration is that I had other buyers as well whom where very interested and this issue wouldn't have bothered them.

Irrespective, currently, we just require finalisation on the shipping costs. If an admin wants to chip in they are more than welcome but my carbonite reputation is worth more than the time and effort spent on this keyboard.

 

[spydr97]

I will chip in again with some more context.

The link in the sellers reply isn't an accurate description of the issue I experienced, and I agree that what's described there happens on all Corsair mechs. (I did acknowledge this on WhatsApp as well - just replying from my phone so a bit of a mission to get the timestamp from the chat export)

https://www.reddit.com/r/Corsair/comments/br3f9q

Above is a more pertinent thread relating to the specific issue I faced, and if this issue was within acceptable params as the seller states why did OP successfully go through the RMA process (i.e. Corsair themselves acknowledge that it was a fault with the keyboard)

The fact that the seller has other buyers should not be relevant to this deal specifically or am I missing something here?

If another buyer is willing to buy the keyboard in the present condition why not just ship the keyboard directly from me to them. I'll do videos of the condition beforehand; package like a boss - proper sealing and bubble wrap over the outer box.

I maintain my position that the seller knew about the issue and chose not to disclose it and as such I should not have to incur a loss, no matter how small it may be. If the seller mentioned it in the thread or at any point in our conversation I would have immediately backed out of the deal.

The fact that I chose to trust the seller and take their word that the condition was excellent should not be held against me. Is it the onus of the seller or the buyer to make sure that the listing description and condition is accurate?

 

[ChickenWings217]

noticed the F2 being slightly more dimm than the other keys

the issue with the LED light being slightly less dim wasn't as big of an issue for a secondhand keyboard that is 3 years old

this issue wouldn't have bothered them.

[For Sale] - Corsair K70 MK2 MX-SPEED Switches | Peripherals

Item: Corsair K70 MK2 MX-SPEED Switches Age: 3 Years Price: 1800 Payment Method Accepted: EFT/CASH Warranty: None Warranty Holder: N/A Packaging: Original Condition: Excellent Location: Centurion Reason: TKL Shipping: Yes, cost and risk on you Collection: Yes Link: Corsair FYI -------- For...

carbonite.co.za

For the sake of being clear, Is item condition rating relative to the age of the item?

 

[spydr97]

Yesterday I WhatsApp'd the seller and proposed the solution I mentioned above after realising that I did not tag him in my reply.

The solution to reiterate was to send the keyboard directly from me to the other buyer thereby creating a winning situation for everyone since that eliminates the need for an additional courier charge on the sellers side (which is basically the single point of contention at current).
I assume that the seller was in contact with the other buyer to make alternative arrangements once the keyboard got back to him since he knew that the LED issue was not a problem; hence the suggestion.

I was however ignored so we're back to a stalemate. I've tried my best to get this resolved without the need for Carbonite staff to get involved but I think now I have to accept defeat.

If a staff member could rule on this matter when he/she has a second that would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

 

[ViVceptioN]

@dave9608 please respond to the last message of @spydr97

He paid you first without issues originally, I would suggest you refund him so he can ship the stuff off wherever it needs to be. Both sides of this coin have risks for both parties.

 

[spydr97]

Hi @ViVceptioN apologies for the tag but I don't know if you automatically get notified of new replies.

I have an update but unfortunately not good news. As per before I will drop the redacted chat export as a drive link with media as drive links in the doc where pertinent. This export picks up where the last one left off.

The was no mention of any return shipping or refund in the conversation today since my proposal of alternative shipping plans which seems like a regression from where we were at this time yesterday.

Summary, notes and thoughts below.

- The seller reached out to me early this afternoon requesting a picture of the keyboard with the F1-F4 keycaps off and on a white profile. I assumed this was something that may have been requested by the prospective buyer and I obliged once my work schedule allowed.

- The seller responded that there was something wrong with the keyboard now and supplied his own picture that doesn't show the issue of certain keys having discoloration. I took a picture of the keyboard from the same angle and my picture did not show the issue either.

- The seller then asked me to attempt a reset of the keyboard as per a Corsair link and send more pictures. I once again obliged and attempted the reset. Ran into an issue where the keyboard has to be plugged into a USB 3 port to actually reset but found the solution myself on Reddit and was able to complete the reset and followed up with a picture as requested

- The seller once again replied that the keys are looking red and sent another picture of his own (again from another angle) that didn't show it on his end. I took a similar picture from the same angle and again, no red hue from the keys when the picture is taken from that angle.

- The seller also had an issue with the profile button being red (red is the default and he had me reset the keyboard so I'm not sure what he was expecting but it's a togglable setting in iCUE that's not part of the color profile)

- At this point I suggested that all further communication take place in this bad deal thread since we were spinning wheels again, but I have not received any notifications (maybe messages just haven't been approved; I know the mods aren't on 24/7)

The conversation from today honestly felt like either a fishing expedition or an ambush on the part of the seller. Throughout this process I have been more than accommodating, especially with some of the seller's requests today but I feel my handling of the situation civilly is being taken advantage of and that the seller is not playing straight cards with this whole thing.

I try to see the good in people and rationalize stuff positively but as this plays out it's becoming more and more difficult to do that.
- The seller flat out ignoring my proposal for alternative shipping, Does the other buyer that didn't have an issue with the RGB actually exist and if so, why was the keyboard not shipped to them at some point today and this matter resolved, or at the very least arrangements made for tomorrow.
- The curated photos that the seller sent that were meant to discredit the issues I've experienced with the keyboard. What was the point of this when the seller was aware of the issue on Friday, and the refund was already agreed to?

The seller seems obsessed with finding an issue with this keyboard. I've tested the keys on this keyboard again before posting this, and other than the lighting issues I cannot see anything wrong with it, so from my vantage point it seems like the seller is attempting to find a way out of refunding.

My last thought/point for now. The seller repeatedly brings up the damage during shipping argument; I don't quite know why either.
- The box shows zero signs of damage. I can grab some pictures in the AM if required
- If the seller is that paranoid about damage during shipping, why did he not take extra precaution when shipping the item to me; even if he wanted me to wait for a bit or cover the cost of additional packaging material, I would have been happy to, or even taken an afternoon off and went to pick it up myself since Centurion -> Mondeor is a drive but not the end of the world. It just seems like an excuse
- The LEDs on this keyboard are pretty well shielded. If there was any impact damage, I would expect it to damage the keycaps, switches or body before it damages the LEDs but I stand corrected here. Maybe one of the keyboard gurus could weigh in.

Chat as promised: WhatsApp Chat with [REDACTED]_2.txt

Thanks again

 

[Ageless_ZA]

@spydr97 send me the keyboard and I will check these claims as an impartial 3rd party. I will even pay you the R1000 you spent on it.

 

[spydr97]

@spydr97 send me the keyboard and I will check these claims as an impartial 3rd party. I will even pay you the R1000 you spent on it.

Sounds good to me. Sending you a PM to make arrangements.

 

[Ageless_ZA]

Keyboard received. Shipping like a boss @ichigo

LED issue is most definitely there. As @spydr97 noted. The white tone is also yellow. So he is justified in wanting to return the keyboard. For me personally I only use red LED so its a non issue to me. So will be keeping this keyboard as a daily driver, typing on it is quite pleasing.

I have paid him for his troubles as well as his initial shipping (partly)

@dave9608 In future I would suggest you thoroughly test items and send photos to buyer in future. If there is an issue be upfront about it.

So in the end. Resolved.

(and no I will not be stepping in on other deals like this, this was just me being nice for once this year)