The first road legal production car to make 100 BHP/L was the 1986 Ford Sierra Cosworth.

[BuNNeH]

You are still a kak driver though, no matter how fast your car is

 

[Valheru]

Interestingly, the CEO of F1 has said recently that, if fully carbon-neutral fuel is used, they may be able to do away with hybrid systems in F1 cars, switch back to simple internal combustion engines, and still meet their net-zero-carbon goals. It's not an official position by any means, just an offhand comment. But it's interesting to see that people are thinking in that direction.

We want this back

 

[JG_RSA]

All the electric cars mentioned are not road legal nor calm enough to enjoy at road speed bar Autobahn.

They not all boring. They are just all very similar apart from the Hyundai Ionic 5N which gets its excitement from mimicking a petrol car. Rimac Nevera/Lotus equivalent/Pininfarina equivalent also comes to mind but again for crazy speeds and butt ton of KW.

For plain commute such as uber or ride sharing, electric seems fine there. Apart from charge times at the moment

I don't have a problem with any electric car, they just simply don't excite as much in my opinion.

I genuinely hope the alternative fuels and carbon neutral fuels keep the combustion engine alive for as long as possible.

I agree.
Electric cars are fine for a daily driver, but I don't want one as a sports car.
You don't drive the hell out of a sports car or do 0-100 km/h in 2s every time you drive it, but you do start it every time and listen to that glorious engine sound, even if you're doing city driving within the speed limits. A sports car without a matching soundtrack is just a very fast appliance or, perhaps more accurately, computer and lacks emotion to me.

If you have to explain to a kid or non-car person, that asks you to let them hear what it sounds like, that it makes no sound, but they'll have to take your word for it that it's really fast, it's only doing half of the job right as a sports car.
But that's just my opinion. Not that anyone asked. 🙃

 

[SteveIndeed]

eFuels give me hope that the nearly 150-year-old modern internal combustion engine might actually survive this eco-numpty era.

 

[StangV3_0]

eFuels give me hope that the nearly 150-year-old modern internal combustion engine might actually survive this eco-numpty era.

I suspect it will. You can fill the tank of a car in less than 5 minutes and drive 600km. And then refill it again in another 5 minutes and drive another 600km. Many cars have a range of 800 - 1000km on a tank.

Until an EV can recharge in half the time the currently do (preferably less), while offering 600km range or more, they will never become as convenient as an internal combustion engine.

And let's assume they did one day. Let's assume that they could recharge from 10% to 100% in 15 minutes. And EVERYONE was driving one. Can you imagine the congestion at charging stations on national roads?

Convenient for around town and home to work use I agree. But they, and the infrastructure, has a long way to go before everyone accepts them.

That, and their price.

 

[SteveIndeed]

I suspect it will. You can fill the tank of a car in less than 5 minutes and drive 600km. And then refill it again in another 5 minutes and drive another 600km. Many cars have a range of 800 - 1000km on a tank.

Until an EV can recharge in half the time the currently do (preferably less), while offering 600km range or more, they will never become as convenient as an internal combustion engine.

And let's assume they did one day. Let's assume that they could recharge from 10% to 100% in 15 minutes. And EVERYONE was driving one. Can you imagine the congestion at charging stations on national roads?

Convenient for around town and home to work use I agree. But they, and the infrastructure, has a long way to go before everyone accepts them.

That, and their price.

Couldn't agree more. Battery tech has decades to go before a battery can be charged to 100% in minutes without sacrificing the long-term health of the battery, and that new tech becomes reliable enough to put into a car.

I have a theory about Toyota and exterior LED lights: Toyota's reputation for reliability is what the brand is pretty much built on. They know they really shouldn't harm that reputation for the sake of cutting-edge design. So, when LEDs became all the rage on new cars, Toyota didn't hop onto the bandwagon immediately. They seem to have waited for LEDs to become totally reliable before putting them into their cars. The result now is that you practically never see a failed LED on a Toyota, whereas BMW's 1 Series from 2011 onwards - the F21 - seems to come pre-installed with failed LEDs in the back lights. Heck, when last did you see a broken-down Tazz on the side of the road?

That kind of thing makes a difference. So until Toyota is happy to put a fast-charging, long-lasting battery into its Corolla, electric cars will keep losing the game.

 

[StangV3_0]

Couldn't agree more. Battery tech has decades to go before a battery can be charged to 100% in minutes without sacrificing the long-term health of the battery, and that new tech becomes reliable enough to put into a car.

If you think about it, we actually haven't made any major technological breakthroughs in the last 80 years.

Steam power changed the way we traveled.
Then came electricity.
Then came the internal combustion engine.
Then came the nuclear reactor which is just a different way to make steam.
Then came the jet engine.

We haven't made any major technological discoveries regarding energy in the last 80 years. All we have done is fine tune and evolve what we have discovered.

Until we discover a new form or way to create energy the ICE will never die.

And this is what I like about Space X. They are constantly pushing the boundaries of what the world thinks is plausible. And I do feel that if there is some new tech that will be put to the test that we may see it from them before anyone else.

 

[BuNNeH]

If you think about it, we actually haven't made any major technological breakthroughs in the last 80 years.

Steam power changed the way we traveled.
Then came electricity.
Then came the internal combustion engine.
Then came the nuclear reactor which is just a different way to make steam.
Then came the jet engine.

We haven't made any major technological discoveries regarding energy in the last 80 years. All we have done is fine tune and evolve what we have discovered.

Until we discover a new form or way to create energy the ICE will never die.

And this is what I like about Space X. They are constantly pushing the boundaries of what the world thinks is plausible. And I do feel that if there is some new tech that will be put to the test that we may see it from them before anyone else.

Rockets will always be rockets. It's the nature of space, there's no other known way to propel anything through space except by rocket. Not to say it is impossible, but we don't know how to do it any other way.

As for terran technology, I'm not sure what other advancements are looming, but you essentially have chemical potential energy for all forms of power and I don't see that changing.

 

[ovisser1]

I suspect it will. You can fill the tank of a car in less than 5 minutes and drive 600km. And then refill it again in another 5 minutes and drive another 600km. Many cars have a range of 800 - 1000km on a tank.

And here I cry in 350km intervals.

 

[KURT_COCAIN]

And here I cry in 350km intervals.

Put long range tank

 

[StangV3_0]

Rockets will always be rockets. It's the nature of space, there's no other known way to propel anything through space except by rocket. Not to say it is impossible, but we don't know how to do it any other way.

As for terran technology, I'm not sure what other advancements are looming, but you essentially have chemical potential energy for all forms of power and I don't see that changing.

Well exactly. Take the internet. Yeah it's awesome. But it only changed how me communicate and how we access information. We just evolved from walking to a library or sending a post card. We got lazy.

However, more and more patents are being filed for fusion engine designs. Someone will eventually get it right.

 

[ovisser1]

Put long range tank

I'm talking about the car.....

The BMW gets close to 500km on a tank.

 

[BuNNeH]

Well exactly. Take the internet. Yeah it's awesome. But it only changed how me communicate and how we access information. We just evolved from walking to a library or sending a post card. We got lazy.

However, more and more patents are being filed for fusion engine designs. Someone will eventually get it right.

No dude.

The internet changed literally every facet of our lives. There's not a thing that hasn't been affected by it. Not one.

EDIT: I failed to take into account that you live in Quewrbgitsastanfonteinbergspruit. Things there may not have been affected very much.

 

[Big_Bad_Vlad]

My 43cc weed eater makes 97.674HP per liter

 

[StangV3_0]

No dude.

The internet changed literally every facet of our lives. There's not a thing that hasn't been affected by it. Not one.

EDIT: I failed to take into account that you live in Quewrbgitsastanfonteinbergspruit. Things there may not have been affected very much.

Haha.

What really changed beside how we communicate and access information?

Instead of using a pen to say hi to someone and post them a letter on something called paper we can now send a message to a person on the other side of the world in mere milliseconds.

We use the internet to share our lives and see other peoples lives. Some may even go years without seeing anyone from their family because the internet allows this or makes it seem acceptable.

We can see them while speaking to them. Live. If we wish.

It makes our banking easier. Transactions easier. It just changed the way we do things but we still doing the same things. I can watch something being streamed live from your house. I can get live updates now regarding anything in the world while reading about anything I wish.

We, the people of this world, have made the internet necessary for our daily lives, but if it all blew up tomorrow, our lives will still carry on.

Take the internet away. We still going to get up. Go to work.

We still going to drive there in a car using petrol. Turn on lights and use machines using electricity that is being generated by the same discoveries made 80 - 200 years ago. With or without the internet we still do this. If the internet crashes, we still do this.

 

[natpoeper]

My 43cc weed eater makes 97.674HP per liter

RIP. That's 5.25bhp/L more than my car

 

[BuNNeH]

Haha.

What really changed beside how we communicate and access information?

Instead of using a pen to say hi to someone and post them a letter on something called paper we can now send a message to a person on the other side of the world in mere milliseconds.

We use the internet to share our lives and see other peoples lives. Some may even go years without seeing anyone from their family because the internet allows this or makes it seem acceptable.

We can see them while speaking to them. Live. If we wish.

It makes our banking easier. Transactions easier. It just changed the way we do things but we still doing the same things. I can watch something being streamed live from your house. I can get live updates now regarding anything in the world while reading about anything I wish.

We, the people of this world, have made the internet necessary for our daily lives, but if it all blew up tomorrow, our lives will still carry on.

Take the internet away. We still going to get up. Go to work.

We still going to drive there in a car using petrol. Turn on lights and use machines using electricity that is being generated by the same discoveries made 80 - 200 years ago. With or without the internet we still do this. If the internet crashes, we still do this.

Internet stops today.

We have no way of buying anything. We cannot withdraw money. We cannot process transactions. We cannot communicate with anyone short of visiting them.

Because we cannot process transactions, we cannot purchase fuel. So petrol stations run dry and remain that way. All remote monitoring of plants, factories etc goes down. On-site still works but systems will automatically go into safe modes when communications of that sort are lost. They cannot be reestablished. At least, they potentially could if we could communicate with the people who could help. But we can't.

You could extrapolate the ramifications all day and you'd come to the conclusion that we are so highly dependent on instantaneous communication that life would become Mad Max in a month without it.

 

[Oops!!!]

I'm not saying electric cars are better than petrol. But they're not necessarily boring:

(RIP Ken Block).

Take away its straight cut gearing and it will sound lame asf!!!

 

[StangV3_0]

Internet stops today.

We have no way of buying anything. We cannot withdraw money. We cannot process transactions. We cannot communicate with anyone short of visiting them.

Our decision. We made it this way. And if necessary, we could reverse this.

Because we cannot process transactions, we cannot purchase fuel. So petrol stations run dry and remain that way. All remote monitoring of plants, factories etc goes down. On-site still works but systems will automatically go into safe modes when communications of that sort are lost. They cannot be reestablished. At least, they potentially could if we could communicate with the people who could help. But we can't.

Once again, a decision made by us to make it easier. So instead of going to this remote factory and do it myself, I change the way it's done because it's easier. Its faster. It's cheaper. It's an evolution of how we used to do it.

that we are so highly dependent on instantaneous communication that life would become Mad Max in a month without it.

Well, that's exactly what it is. It's an evolution of how we communicate and access what we need and want.

You and I would not even be having this conversation without the internet. We would have never "met", so to speak. The internet is awesome. I enjoy it every day. Every minute, every moment. I can watch a video of my little girl while she plays live while I am at work with an annoying boss. We all love it.

But we still living the same way. We still travelling the same way. We still using the same forms of energy. We still eating the same foods.

So as much as the internet is incredible and has made so many things of our lives a lot easier, we are still living and doing the same things we were decades ago. Just faster. Simpler. And Quicker.

It is us, human beings, who made the decision to allow us to become so dependent on the internet. It's not impossible to live without it. We just choose not to.

 

[natpoeper]

Take away its straight cut gearing

I don't want to take away any of its gears, I am happy to leave them all where they are.

 

[BuNNeH]

Our decision. We made it this way. And if necessary, we could reverse this.



Once again, a decision made by us to make it easier. So instead of going to this remote factory and do it myself, I change the way it's done because it's easier. Its faster. It's cheaper. It's an evolution of how we used to do it.



Well, that's exactly what it is. It's an evolution of how we communicate and access what we need and want.

You and I would not even be having this conversation without the internet. We would have never "met", so to speak. The internet is awesome. I enjoy it every day. Every minute, every moment. I can watch a video of my little girl while she plays live while I am at work with an annoying boss. We all love it.

But we still living the same way. We still travelling the same way. We still using the same forms of energy. We still eating the same foods.

So as much as the internet is incredible and has made so many things of our lives a lot easier, we are still living and doing the same things we were decades ago. Just faster. Simpler. And Quicker.

It is us, human beings, who made the decision to allow us to become so dependent on the internet. It's not impossible to live without it. We just choose not to.

I'm not saying we couldn't theoretically survive without the internet. I'm saying the number of things in our current world which would cease to function without the internet is untold. It would be absolutely catastrophic.

 

[SteveIndeed]

I'm not saying we couldn't theoretically survive without the internet. I'm saying the number of things in our current world which would cease to function without the internet is untold. It would be absolutely catastrophic.

The argument depends entirely on what type of tech we're talking about. Stang is right: without the internet, things will be rough for a month or two but the money will still be there, the ICE will still be there, the electricity will still be there. It would rightly be catastrophic in the immediate-term but we'd be able to work our way around it because the Internet is a relatively new invention. Life without the Internet continued quite happily only, what, 45 years ago?

But instantly take away the ICE or electricity and life would, quite literally, stop for years on end until we navigated around it. The Internet had an enormous impact but not quite as much of an impact as the inventions Stang mentioned.

 

[StangV3_0]

The argument depends entirely on what type of tech we're talking about. Stang is right: without the internet, things will be rough for a month or two but the money will still be there, the ICE will still be there, the electricity will still be there. It would rightly be catastrophic in the immediate-term but we'd be able to work our way around it because the Internet is a relatively new invention. Life without the Internet continued quite happily only, what, 45 years ago?

But instantly take away the ICE or electricity and life would, quite literally, stop for years on end until we navigated around it. The Internet had an enormous impact but not quite as much of an impact as the inventions Stang mentioned.

Wrong or right, @Areola Grande does have very valid points too. In the same way we have come to depend on the internet, we have also come to depend on electricity and cars. We can't exactly say, well, we dont need it because its new. The human race could also survive without cars and electricity, so to speak. You could remove every invention made in the last 500 years and we will still survive. But that wasn’t my point. My point is that we are surviving, and quite comfortably, on inventions from 80 years ago and longer. A few things along the way have just made it a bit simpler. Like Computers, Cellphones, and the internet. They didn’t necessarily change what we did, they just changed how we did it.

Not much else is going to change until we discover the next big thing. Take Space X for example. Everyone is marveling at what they are doing. Now they not changing what has been done, they just changing how it is being done while breaking the barriers of what people thought was plausible. And so far, all they have done is reach lower earth orbit. So, they have spent years doing what they are doing, billions of dollars, trillions maybe, and they are right where Nasa was 60 years ago. The just doing it differently to what everyone had done before them while figuring out a way to do it cheaper. Their engines are still rocket engines. They still run on a highly flammable fuel that goes bang in a certain direction creating a force greater than gravity. To be fair though we watch Space X not only for what they are doing, but where they are going. And that's Mars.

And this brings to me to what I meant in my first post about a major technology breakthrough. All of these space agencies spend billions of dollars to be able to leave our atmosphere. Not reach the moon. Just to leave our atmosphere. Just to overcome the force of gravity. Because that is the most difficult and dangerous part of launching anything from earth into space. Once you in space it’s a lot simpler and easier than what it was getting there.

Imagine for a second someone was able to discover a way to shield gravity. Sounds impossible, but is it? Just because we don’t understand how it may work, does not mean it is impossible. 100 Years ago, the idea a ship having unlimited range for 30 years was laughable. Yet here we are, with many naval ships having unlimited range for 30 – 50 years. Aka - Nuclear Power. But even so, this is just a different way to generate steam compared to your convention steam engine. So, would it be wrong to say we are still in the steam age? Probably. But I think you get my point. We still using steam to generate power, we just doing it differently.

There are forces in this world that the average joe like the people reading this thread and the person typing this post will never understand. Time travel, for example, in theory, is possible. But we are years away from having the technology to be able to apply such theories.

Whether intentional or by accident, sooner or later someone somewhere is going to make the next big discovery. Like a fusion engine able to produce incredible thrust while having unlimited range. Or a way to shield gravity or negate weight. Or something else none of us can think of right now.

And when this is done it will then open up a whole new world for us.

 

[ABikePeddler]

Well well, we have a new challenger!

Since this was your first post, it doesn't count.

Just kidding! It appears as if you are correct. And I can't find any reason why the little Ren 5 Turbo can't take this crown. Especially since it was launched 5 years prior to the Sierra Cosworth.

If I do, I will update this post.

I don't like you right now.

Here is my second post... Reading though this thread I am amazed at the quality of comments from everybody. I love how the tread started out about cutting edge tech from the 80's and ends up being about electric cars and the internet. This is one smart group of people!

I only found this forum because of the same Reddit post regarding the first road legal production car to make 100hp per liter. I myself also thought that the Colombo powered 62' Ferrari GTO was the first to make 100hp per liter and this does appear to be the case. So perhaps the Renault 5 Turbo is the second? I can't think of any car prior that reached this benchmark and when you consider that the GTO was really a race only offering with only 36 variants ever produced, it's a bit of a stretch to call it a "production car".

But to me, as car freak from across the pond, the Ford Sierra RS Cosworth is about the coolest, most desirable thing on 4 wheels. We never got a hot version of the Sierra so the European offering was just some sort of distant dream. A car version of the Holy Grail. I got to see one in a car park at Goodwood a couple years ago... unforgettable.

The funny thing about the little Renault 5 is it introduced a number of firsts in the automotive landscape. It was the first car with integrated plastic bumpers and I believe it was the first car with a tailgate that went all the way down to the bumper for ease of loading. I think it was the second car to offer intercooling of the intake charge as well (Porsche's 930 Turbo Carrera might have been the first in 1978).

Here is mine... www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC8nkoMb3SM&t=31s

 

[SteveIndeed]

But to me, as car freak from across the pond, the Ford Sierra RS Cosworth is about the coolest, most desirable thing on 4 wheels. We never got a hot version of the Sierra so the European offering was just some sort of distant dream. A car version of the Holy Grail. I got to see one in a car park at Goodwood a couple years ago... unforgettable.

We never got the Sierra Cossie here, either. But that didn't stop Ford SA (just before it became known as SAMCOR) from wedging a 5.0 Mustang-sourced V8 under its bonnet. The result was the Sierra XR8.

I saw and heard one just this past weekend. A glorious noise from an unassuming car. I'd love to have one.

 

[StangV3_0]

I myself also thought that the Colombo powered 62' Ferrari GTO was the first to make 100hp per liter and this does appear to be the case. So perhaps the Renault 5 Turbo is the second? I can't think of any car prior that reached this benchmark and when you consider that the GTO was really a race only offering with only 36 variants ever produced, it's a bit of a stretch to call it a "production car".

100HP and 100BHP are two different power outputs.

So the GTO may have been first to make 100HP/L.

But the first to make 100BHP/L goes to the Renualt 5. The Sierra Cosworth Takes 2nd place.

I don't know how on earth everyone overlooked the Renualt 5. It's a well known cult car and it was a production car. How it got left out this argument is beyond me.

Unless there is any reason to disqualify it from this discussion, and can't see or find any, the title of first production car to make 100BHP/L goes to the plucky Frenchman!

 

[Trompie67]

We never got the Sierra Cossie here, either. But that didn't stop Ford SA (just before it became known as SAMCOR) from wedging a 5.0 Mustang-sourced V8 under its bonnet. The result was the Sierra XR8.

I saw and heard one just this past weekend. A glorious noise from an unassuming car. I'd love to have one.

Whilst it was a great car, in standard road trim it most most widely known for overheating. A friend who worked for Ford Motorsport back when they were still located in Edenvale had one, and it would cook at the merest hint of a warm day. Lots of modification and fabrication + 2 huge electric fans solved most of the problem.

100HP and 100BHP are two different power outputs.

So the GTO may have been first to make 100HP/L.

But the first to make 100BHP/L goes to the Renualt 5. The Sierra Cosworth Takes 2nd place.

I don't know how on earth everyone overlooked the Renualt 5. It's a well known cult car and it was a production car. How it got left out this argument is beyond me.

Unless there is any reason to disqualify it from this discussion, and can't see or find any, the title of first production car to make 100BHP/L goes to the plucky Frenchman!

A friend who is an avid car collector owns an original R5 Turbo in his collection in Alberton. Have pics hidden somewhere from 15 odd years ago, will post if I can find them.

 

[ABikePeddler]

100HP and 100BHP are two different power outputs.

So the GTO may have been first to make 100HP/L.

But the first to make 100BHP/L goes to the Renualt 5. The Sierra Cosworth Takes 2nd place.

I don't know how on earth everyone overlooked the Renualt 5. It's a well known cult car and it was a production car. How it got left out this argument is beyond me.

Unless there is any reason to disqualify it from this discussion, and can't see or find any, the title of first production car to make 100BHP/L goes to the plucky Frenchman!

Not to belabor this topic but I kept thinking about it this past week. I am really into the odd stuff and so I went into my automotive mind library and started doing maths... I pulled up some other production cars that predate the Sierra Cosworth that pull 100hp out of a liter. I will let you decide if they are worthy based on their production numbers but the first one will have you hitting your forehead... the 1987 Ferrari F40. They made more then 1300 of these suckers and they developed 162hp per liter. Granted, 1987 is a year late to this party as the Sierra predates it by a year. So that brings up the 1984 Ferrari 288 GTO which developed 138hp per liter from it's 2.9 L V8. 272 were produced. But then I remembered the 1982 Ferrari 208 GTB Turbo. Most people do not even know these existed and they never came stateside (I do not believe) and Ferrari only made a little over 400 of the diminutive 2.0L V8 turbo cars for public consumption, but they did make 222hp making them one of the first "production" cars you could buy that broke the 100hp per L mark. Honorable mention should also go to the 1990 Maserati Shamal that pumped out an impressive 322hp out of 3.2liters. Granted, it probably only made that hp once and then was towed directly back to the Maserati dealer.

 

[vinodh]

The Delta Motor Corporation of South Africa Opel Monza 160i GSi Car of the Year 1991 is the bestest, most powerfullest car ever made.

 

[StangV3_0]

The Delta Motor Corporation of South Africa Opel Monza 160i GSi Car of the Year 1991 is the bestest, most powerfullest car ever made.

Let me guess, Facebook AI?

"Imagine a boksburg local called Kurt in a speedo with an Opeel?"