Solar advice (finance advice included as well)

[JF_Reis]

Hi all,

I'm looking at getting solar but my knowledge is slim on this. I apologize if this has been discussed, i couldn't find any threads on this.

Ive looked at a few rent to own or purely rental options which honestly dont look attractive. Im also not keen on throwing money into something that wont be mine. And if i look at the T&C's on some of these companies, it's really making me steer far away.

Im not looking at going off grid but I'd really like to bring down my electricity bill to offset my monthly cost for the solar (and of course help with load shedding). I dont know how much power our household consumes in a month, i know a starting point would be to check that. Can anyone tell me how to get an accurate reading? We using roughly R1500 of electricity a month in summer and then around R1700 in winder.

I also own the property and I think the best would be to take a loan on my bond for this.

Can anyone share some advice on how I could go about this so that i can make the right choices.

 

[Scrooloose]

Advice is difficult because we don't know what your household needs are. However looking at your monthly spend, it appears similar to mine. So I'll relay our story of what we ended up doing.

We got a quote from an installer and then saved towards that goal. We decided to put the entire house behind the inverter barring the stove/oven. Therefore we installed a 10kVA inverter with 2x 5kVA batteries and some 545kW solar panels. There are timers and home automation things deployed to turn the pool pump and geyser on/off based on solar output capacity so that we get the maximum output from the sun.

When we installed, the solar panels still cost around R5k a piece and batteries were R30k+ -- Prices have come down since. We're saving again for phase 2, where 2x additional batteries will come along and we'll expand the solar PV array to fill our roof and onto an additional section of the house. We're looking at 16 panels once everything is done. That should give us 800W nominal when it's raining, which exceeds our normal daily use when the pool pump isn't running by quite some margin. During full sun, we'll probably get close to 8kWH if not more.

With our current config of 6 panels, we're already saving around 60% on our power bill. When it's fully installed, we'll run off batteries during night time and potentially living off-grid for the electricity a majority of the time. As it stands, we can go 18 hours without sun and utility power when the geyser and pool remains off without having to unplug appliances.

The automation helps a ton, you don't want the geyser and pool pump running from your batteries.

As for cost, ours was R150k odd for the initial install which included reworking the DB. Expansion will probably be R50k for batteries and cables, and another R30k for panels/brackets/cabling, with the CoC coming to some R1,500

 

[Adrenalin]

One piece of advice i can deffo give you is DO NOT buy gel batteries. Mine lasted 6 months and started swelling and smelt like plastic burning. They sat in the garage and by the time I got to them I was even nervous to move the things because they had started to swell so badly. R10k down the drain.

Bought 2 lithium here on carb, with a balancer, and i could not be happier. 2 x 100AH last me .... well, ive gone 8 hours so far and they havent died. Not sure how much longer they will last after that.

I would also hook up something to the mains if you own the house because then you can run lights. Handy if you have a child or similar.

 

[Billionairebum]

1st prize is an outright purchase with inverter, batteries and panels.

2nd prize is a "solar Loan" you can get from a few places, interest is roughly a bit higher than a car lona, please correct me if I am wrong.

3rd prize and really the last thing is bonding it. Do the calculations for this with a amortization calculator/chart. A R240k system ends up costing you over R600k using this method.

 

[goldfritter]

All the major and even some of the minor banks now offer a dedicated power backup loan. Worth comparing this to other options. They will usually have preferred providers who can come out and assess your needs. You can then compare their quote to others.

 

[Qui_Illustrati]

Are you on prepaid or postpaid @JF_Reis ?
Your monthly usage regardless of season seems low. By my calculations around the 500kWh to 600kWh a month, right?
Do you have any cash funds available or accessible?
A system that meets your requirement won't cost an arm and a leg if you go tye cash in hand route. Start small-ish and grow as you go.
6kw Solis Hybrid, 5kwh Battery, 10x 550w panels should be under 70k off the shelf. Wiring, DB, protection, rails, mounts etc etc I'd reckon another 20k or so. DIY install (free-ish) , or get someone to install maybe around the 15k to 20k mark. 100k - 110k all in gets you a pretty decent system that will take you the most part off grid for the bulk of the year. Slap down more panels for Winter if you want.

If you have access to 100k or thereabouts your best option is an outright buy and install route. Any other route costs you way more in the long run.
If you have an access bond that could also be a viable option. Tap in to that and just dump funds over and obove the monthly installments to your remaining bond.

Also, remember the 15% rebate on panels if that matters.

 

[Divan85]

As @Scrooloose mentioned it is really difficult to give advice without knowing your usage. I have a 3 bedroom house and it is just me and the wife, so relatively low electricity usage, around R1000pm. I installed a 5kW Hybrid inverter with a 5.12KWh battery (LiFePO4, do NOT go for anything other than Lithium, you will be wasting your money) and 10x 550W panels.

You can use the link I posted here: Free Solar Design Software | Backup Power

It is browser based so no installation or whatever needed, just go onto the webpage and play around with it. You have to check if you have enough roof space facing the correct headings before you get solar. North facing roof being preferred, however if like me you do not have a large enough North facing roof the go with two strings, one East and one West if your inverter has 2x MPPTs.

I am running all my plug circuits and lights off the inverter, including my aircon in the main bedroom. The only items not on the inverter is the geyser and stove. I have a Sunsynk inverter that has a bi-directional input which means it can power my non-essential loads (geyser and stove) when there is excess solar available, but only when it is not loadshedding. I set my geyser timer to turn on geyser during the middle of the day when solar is available.

I went down from 11 kWh / units average per day to about 1-2 kWh / units per day. I do not push back into Eskom so if that option is available later down the line then I can even get more savings, but for now it does the job.

 

[JF_Reis]

Advice is difficult because we don't know what your household needs are. However looking at your monthly spend, it appears similar to mine. So I'll relay our story of what we ended up doing.

We got a quote from an installer and then saved towards that goal. We decided to put the entire house behind the inverter barring the stove/oven. Therefore we installed a 10kVA inverter with 2x 5kVA batteries and some 545kW solar panels. There are timers and home automation things deployed to turn the pool pump and geyser on/off based on solar output capacity so that we get the maximum output from the sun.

When we installed, the solar panels still cost around R5k a piece and batteries were R30k+ -- Prices have come down since. We're saving again for phase 2, where 2x additional batteries will come along and we'll expand the solar PV array to fill our roof and onto an additional section of the house. We're looking at 16 panels once everything is done. That should give us 800W nominal when it's raining, which exceeds our normal daily use when the pool pump isn't running by quite some margin. During full sun, we'll probably get close to 8kWH if not more.

With our current config of 6 panels, we're already saving around 60% on our power bill. When it's fully installed, we'll run off batteries during night time and potentially living off-grid for the electricity a majority of the time. As it stands, we can go 18 hours without sun and utility power when the geyser and pool remains off without having to unplug appliances.

The automation helps a ton, you don't want the geyser and pool pump running from your batteries.

As for cost, ours was R150k odd for the initial install which included reworking the DB. Expansion will probably be R50k for batteries and cables, and another R30k for panels/brackets/cabling, with the CoC coming to some R1,500

Thanks a lot for sharing your experience. It's awesome to see how you've strategically set up your solar system. The automation aspect is intriguing. Could you elaborate a bit more on the timers and home automation devices you use to optimize energy consumption? I have a gas hob and use an air fryer mostly to cook. I also dont have a pool so I guess im saving a bit there. But thanks for your input

 

[JF_Reis]

One piece of advice i can deffo give you is DO NOT buy gel batteries. Mine lasted 6 months and started swelling and smelt like plastic burning. They sat in the garage and by the time I got to them I was even nervous to move the things because they had started to swell so badly. R10k down the drain.

Bought 2 lithium here on carb, with a balancer, and i could not be happier. 2 x 100AH last me .... well, ive gone 8 hours so far and they havent died. Not sure how much longer they will last after that.

I would also hook up something to the mains if you own the house because then you can run lights. Handy if you have a child or similar.

Thanks for the heads-up man. I appreciate it

 

[JF_Reis]

1st prize is an outright purchase with inverter, batteries and panels.

2nd prize is a "solar Loan" you can get from a few places, interest is roughly a bit higher than a car lona, please correct me if I am wrong.

3rd prize and really the last thing is bonding it. Do the calculations for this with a amortization calculator/chart. A R240k system ends up costing you over R600k using this method.

I'll look into the amortization calculations to better understand the financial implications of each option. Bonding was my initial idea but bonding in the long run, can significantly increase the overall cost. Thanks for your input. Do you know which places perhaps offer solar loans?

 

[JF_Reis]

All the major and even some of the minor banks now offer a dedicated power backup loan. Worth comparing this to other options. They will usually have preferred providers who can come out and assess your needs. You can then compare their quote to others.

I'll definitely explore this option and compare. I think as @Billionairebum said, interest rates might be a bit higher than bonding but the term will be shorter I would imagine. Thanks for your insight.

 

[JF_Reis]

Are you on prepaid or postpaid @JF_Reis ?
Your monthly usage regardless of season seems low. By my calculations around the 500kWh to 600kWh a month, right?
Do you have any cash funds available or accessible?
A system that meets your requirement won't cost an arm and a leg if you go tye cash in hand route. Start small-ish and grow as you go.
6kw Solis Hybrid, 5kwh Battery, 10x 550w panels should be under 70k off the shelf. Wiring, DB, protection, rails, mounts etc etc I'd reckon another 20k or so. DIY install (free-ish) , or get someone to install maybe around the 15k to 20k mark. 100k - 110k all in gets you a pretty decent system that will take you the most part off grid for the bulk of the year. Slap down more panels for Winter if you want.

If you have access to 100k or thereabouts your best option is an outright buy and install route. Any other route costs you way more in the long run.
If you have an access bond that could also be a viable option. Tap in to that and just dump funds over and obove the monthly installments to your remaining bond.

Also, remember the 15% rebate on panels if that matters.

Thanks for the insights, I'm on prepaid, and your estimate of monthly usage is pretty accurate I would say. I appreciate the breakdown of a potential system.

I don't have 100k to outright buy and install. I'll explore this option further and consider tapping into an access bond or aquirea solar loan. I guess a starting point would be checking where i can aquire a solar loan and compare that to bonding the system thats suitable.

Also, thanks for mentioning the 15% rebate on panels, definitely a factor to consider. Can you perhaps explain further how this works?

 

[Scrooloose]

Thanks a lot for sharing your experience. It's awesome to see how you've strategically set up your solar system. The automation aspect is intriguing. Could you elaborate a bit more on the timers and home automation devices you use to optimize energy consumption? I have a gas hob and use an air fryer mostly to cook. I also dont have a pool so I guess im saving a bit there. But thanks for your input

I went with Tuya enabled smart timers and switches, and I use Home Assistant to set up the integrations together with various scenarios and responses. Why Tuya? Larger range of products, and the CBI Astute timers are Tuya devices.

Home Assistant is fed via MQQT from Solar Assistant, however this is not the only way to get the data from the inverter into HA. I just found this to be the most convenient.

If I had to do it over, I'd probably select Sonoff over Tuya because of the local network triggering capabilities where you aren't dependent on an internet connection. The CBI stuff doesn't support Zigbee, so if our internet drops the automation fails.

Without a pool, you do have a far lower burden. Our pool pump accounts for 5.5kWH power consumption per day, and the hot water geyser uses around 4.3kWH daily. The TV burns quite a lot, nearly 400W which was a surprise to me.

 

[Scrooloose]

I don't have 100k to outright buy and install.

Save up. It took us 2 years to save for it. Credit is expensive, and solar is a luxury. Never buy luxury on credit.

 

[gavin286]

Advice is difficult because we don't know what your household needs are. However looking at your monthly spend, it appears similar to mine. So I'll relay our story of what we ended up doing.

We got a quote from an installer and then saved towards that goal. We decided to put the entire house behind the inverter barring the stove/oven. Therefore we installed a 10kVA inverter with 2x 5kVA batteries and some 545kW solar panels. There are timers and home automation things deployed to turn the pool pump and geyser on/off based on solar output capacity so that we get the maximum output from the sun.

When we installed, the solar panels still cost around R5k a piece and batteries were R30k+ -- Prices have come down since. We're saving again for phase 2, where 2x additional batteries will come along and we'll expand the solar PV array to fill our roof and onto an additional section of the house. We're looking at 16 panels once everything is done. That should give us 800W nominal when it's raining, which exceeds our normal daily use when the pool pump isn't running by quite some margin. During full sun, we'll probably get close to 8kWH if not more.

With our current config of 6 panels, we're already saving around 60% on our power bill. When it's fully installed, we'll run off batteries during night time and potentially living off-grid for the electricity a majority of the time. As it stands, we can go 18 hours without sun and utility power when the geyser and pool remains off without having to unplug appliances.

The automation helps a ton, you don't want the geyser and pool pump running from your batteries.

As for cost, ours was R150k odd for the initial install which included reworking the DB. Expansion will probably be R50k for batteries and cables, and another R30k for panels/brackets/cabling, with the CoC coming to some R1,500

Just some real-world exp here re your "800w nominal when raining": I have 18x 455w and I get (depending on the amount of rain) between 20w and 500w of PV. A normal rain storm will yield about 180w.

 

[Scrooloose]

Just some real-world exp here re your "800w nominal when raining": I have 18x 455w and I get (depending on the amount of rain) between 20w and 500w of PV. A normal rain storm will yield about 180w.

I get 180W from 6x 545W panels at the moment during a typical rain storm.

 

[Qui_Illustrati]

Thanks for the insights, I'm on prepaid, and your estimate of monthly usage is pretty accurate I would say. I appreciate the breakdown of a potential system.

I don't have 100k to outright buy and install. I'll explore this option further and consider tapping into an access bond or aquirea solar loan. I guess a starting point would be checking where i can aquire a solar loan and compare that to bonding the system thats suitable.

Also, thanks for mentioning the 15% rebate on panels, definitely a factor to consider. Can you perhaps explain further how this works?

My bad. It's 25% up to a max of R15 000 apparently. It's not great but also not nothing. Panel prices have plummeted recently so you get way more bang for buck now as opposed to just a few months ago. Same goes for pricing on inverters and batteries. Prices are low now. Great time to make a move.

More info on the rebate

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.pkf.co.za/news/2023/tax-incentives-for-solar-panels-and-renewable-energy-projects/&ved=2ahUKEwicqsnCx-GDAxXsUEEAHaiDCn8QFnoECCEQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2Az2OvUWuuOiyYXejsH8nu

 

[Billionairebum]

I'll look into the amortization calculations to better understand the financial implications of each option. Bonding was my initial idea but bonding in the long run, can significantly increase the overall cost. Thanks for your input. Do you know which places perhaps offer solar loans?

I know places such as Versofy, solar.co.za, and a few companies (Itshomeelectrical lol) offer financing. Perhaps someone who has done more homework on this will be able to give you more advise around who to go for and what to watch out for.

 

[oHm_29]

I recently went through this exercise and most of the rent to own systems are quite expensive and the interest rates aren't favorable (prime + 5% in some cases).

I eventually (should have done this in the first place) reached out to my banker and he informed me that they do solar finance at prime rate and that I can choose the supplier. So I did some research and came across Mirua Solar, quote is very good and they have a lot of positive reviews. Currently just waiting to hear from the bank and will hopefully have solar within the next couple of weeks. Definitely go this route if you bank with Investec.

Just a tip, stay very far away from LookSee, they are totally incompetent.

 

[el3venth]

Full disclosure: I work in solar finance of larger size systems (on the engineering side). Think 300kWp till like 15MWp. Mostly around the 1MW range.

First off. PV panels do save you money. Batteries do not save you any money at all.

What batteries do offer though is power during load shedding. It also has the ability to shift your loads to different times (for example move power from night to daytime, called load shifting). This allows you to shift your load requirements to such a time as when the solar can actually do the savings. But it does add extra expense to the total solar investment.

If you actually take a look at the number the NPC (net present cost) cost over 5 years for a PV+battery system is the same as ESKOM.
So basically zero savings. After that there comes some form of savings. This is all very very subjective and very very dependant on load profile.

The only real savings come into play if you can somehow turn that "lost" time into profit. Now this is easy with a business. Every hour they are losing money, so in that case BESS systems (Battery Energy Storage Systems) are actually financially beneficial. For the average home user, BESS systems are never profitable and purely for convenience.

Most of the saving I have seen on home systems are from people becoming more electricity conscious., changing their behaviours, and taking the steps of changing their lights, etc.

 

[Qui_Illustrati]

First off. PV panels do save you money. Batteries do not save you any money at all.

With respect, I mostly disagree with the red part. If you have panels then batteries can and do save you money (in the long run). Batteries on their own cost you more if you're recharging from grid.
I made an initial investment on a 10kWh battery. It's been in service for a year. For the year the battery has discharged 2.5MWh. My inverter is set to never charge my battery from grid and only from solar. What that means is the battery has serviced my loads, day and night, to the value of R7644 for the year. That equates to approx. 24% of the cost for the battery. In approx. 3 more years the initial investment amount would be absorbed and every kWh generated thereafter is a cost saving as long as I don't recharge from the grid.

 

[SteveIndeed]

A note on the SARS rebate. Two different installers (one a master installer and electrician) I've met have told me they're very cautious about the rebate, for the simple reason that you'll then be "on the books" (provided you don't have to register your system with your municipality) and SARS/Eskom will probably try to tax you for your solar usage in future. It sounds ridiculous and it is but we're talking about the ANC here.

The master installer went further, though. He reckons that SARS isn't in the business of giving away free money so why would they do it now?

The problem with these theories is that even if you don't claim the rebate, SARS/Eskom will still know you have some sort of generation system because your daytime electricity usage (if you don't have a battery) or your 24-hour electricity usage (if you do have a battery) will fall off a cliff. On that basis, I'll likely claim the rebate.

 

[el3venth]

With respect, I mostly disagree with the red part. If you have panels then batteries can and do save you money (in the long run). Batteries on their own cost you more if you're recharging from grid.
I made an initial investment on a 10kWh battery. It's been in service for a year. For the year the battery has discharged 2.5MWh. My inverter is set to never charge my battery from grid and only from solar. What that means is the battery has serviced my loads, day and night, to the value of R7644 for the year. That equates to approx. 24% of the cost for the battery. In approx. 3 more years the initial investment amount would be absorbed and every kWh generated thereafter is a cost saving as long as I don't recharge from the grid.

Read the second paragraph. (Everything within context )

The batteries don't do the savings. The batteries shift your loads to such a time where the panels do the savings. In other words, it enables the panels to do the savings. Basically, recharge the batteries from solar and not the grid.

 

[Marcell1992]

As @Scrooloose mentioned it is really difficult to give advice without knowing your usage. I have a 3 bedroom house and it is just me and the wife, so relatively low electricity usage, around R1000pm. I installed a 5kW Hybrid inverter with a 5.12KWh battery (LiFePO4, do NOT go for anything other than Lithium, you will be wasting your money) and 10x 550W panels.

Was this the price before you got solar? I'm alone and use roughly R850pm with a geyser, 2 door fridge, pc, cooking and washing

 

[Divan85]

Yes before Solar, I haven't actually calculated how much we are using at the moment per month. It was holidays so we were at home everyday so won't be an accurate result anyway. I can see from the Sunsynk app that we are averaging between 1-2 kWhs / units per day. Using 1.5units as a average per day for 30 days at ±R3 per unit is less than R150 per month.

 

[SteveIndeed]

For better advice and considering that different municipalities charge different amounts for electricity, post your kWh per month usage here.