How to add a charger to my inverter?

[iamgigglz]

I have a basic 12v 1200VA inverter with built-in 10A charger hooked up to a 200Ah LiFePo battery. It just charges off AC - no solar here.
My issue is the 10A charge is not enough to keep up with stage 6 load shedding.

I'm looking at buying this or something like it - just a good quality charger that'll run at 20A or more.
The charge function on my existing inverter would be switched off so it would function purely as an inverter.

How do I wire up the charger? Just stick it in parallel?
Is there another component I need to add?

 

[moedeez]

@Confucius @Qui_Illustrati you guys seem to be our resident Solar Gurus.

Also, I'm starting a petition to change Confucious's title to "Mega Solar Array"

 

[ovisser1]

@Phoenix Energy

 

[Qui_Illustrati]

If I may suggest, why not reduce complexity and further points of failure and rather replace the inverter with something more in line with what you want to achieve.
That Victron stuff ain't exactly cheap 😁

 

[LouisABC]

Might as well spend R6.5k get a growatt 3kw inverter, which will charge 20A

 

[iamgigglz]

If I may suggest, why not reduce complexity and further points of failure and rather replace the inverter with something more in line with what you want to achieve.
That Victron stuff ain't exactly cheap 😁

The intention is to replace the inverter with a Victron further down the line too, but if I can save a buck with a better all in one inverter-charger then I'm open to suggestions. Any brands out there I can trust other than Victron?

 

[iamgigglz]

Might as well spend R6.5k get a growatt 3kw inverter, which will charge 20A

See I should read all replies before replying. Thanks, I'll check it out.
Edit - where do you see it for R6.5k?

 

[Qui_Illustrati]

Yo

The intention is to replace the inverter with a Victron further down the line too, but if I can save a buck with a better all in one inverter-charger then I'm open to suggestions. Any brands out there I can trust other than Victron?

Victron is great. Overpriced. Complicated. Too modular.
I'd highly recommend Sunsynk, Deye. Large fan base. Lots of forum based support. Installers are familiar with them.

My personal opinion, avoid Victron.

 

[LouisABC]

See I should read all replies before replying. Thanks, I'll check it out.
Edit - where do you see it for R6.5k?

growatt ou of bstock
growcoll will do the trick as well

GROWCOL OFFGRID INVERTER – VM 3KVA VALUE 2.4kW 24V – GC Solar online Shop

onlineshop.gcsolar.co.za

25A ac charge

 

[Qui_Illustrati]

Another opinion which many might not appreciate. Avoid any and all Voltronic based inverters and their forks like the plague. Browse any local or international forums and you'll see how problematic they are. Look at them wrong and they literally blow a fuse.😁 They work just fine till one day they just don't for no rhyme or reason or warning.

 

[Qui_Illustrati]

Ah. I see you're at 12v currently. Is your future plan to stick with 12v to match your basic requirement. That changes the conversation somewhat.

Out of interest, what are you powering?

 

[LouisABC]

Ah. I see you're at 12v currently. Is your future plan to stick with 12v to match your basic requirement. That changes the conversation somewhat.

Out of interest, what are you powering?

o crap, yes, that is a different story indeed.

 

[iamgigglz]

Ah. I see you're at 12v currently. Is your future plan to stick with 12v to match your basic requirement. That changes the conversation somewhat.

Yeah, it's a basic setup and 24v 100ah batteries were impossible to find when I was buying so I went 12v 200ah instead.
I wanted to stay away from having batteries in serial too.

Out of interest, what are you powering?

The main thing is my PC (in sig) that I use for work for at least 8h/day. Usually pulls around 200~500W.
Then there's a 24/7 load of about 150W for fibre, router, switches, NAS, cameras etc

Numbers are a little higher than they should be because it's all running through an online UPS = conversion losses.
That's part of the reason I'd like to upgrade the inverter too. I need something that's either online or has a super-fast switching speed.

 

[Qui_Illustrati]

Your challenge is you're sort of tied in to the 12v 'ecosystem'. Very few decent options in the 12v space. You clearly paid a tidy sum for the battery and I'm guessing the inverter is a Mecer?

The Victron charger would work for your immediate requirement. Dirty and complex fix I guess. Needs must though 😁

Going on your basic requirements, I'm also guessing you don't want to exactly shell out a whole lot of bucks going 24v or better yet 48v, where there are a plethora more options available?

If that's the case, I'd walk back staying away from Voltronics based inverters, considering your requirement and coupled with the fact that Voltronic based inverters are among the few 'decent' offerings in the 12v space. 'decent' is very subjective and my saying stay away from Voltronics was admittedly based on my own personal opinions.

Something like this would address your requirement

RCT Axpert VM2 1K12 1.2kVa 1.2kW 12V Hybrid Inverter

Please note that this item is available on pre-order with a lead time of 6 - 8 weeks. Features and Functions Pure sine wave solar inverter Output power factor 1 High PV input voltage range Battery independent design Built-in 100A MPPT solar charger Battery equalization function to optimize...

www.sustainable.co.za

Selling your current inverter, topping up the difference, might make the purchase a bit more palatable.


All that being said, were it me, I'd sell the whole bang shoot, start fresh with a 48v system 🤣

 

[qw1ktoggel]

The intention is to replace the inverter with a Victron further down the line too, but if I can save a buck with a better all in one inverter-charger then I'm open to suggestions. Any brands out there I can trust other than Victron?

I contemplated the same thing. Maybe checkout the Victron Multiplus range, It is an inverter, 20 amp charger, and has a UPS function (unlike assembling victron parts individually). such as this

since the victron charger alone is already half the price of the inverter-charger combo.

Yo

Victron is great. Overpriced. Complicated. Too modular.
I'd highly recommend Sunsynk, Deye. Large fan base. Lots of forum based support. Installers are familiar with them.

My personal opinion, avoid Victron.

I agree with this Victron will probably be your most expensive option. I'm not really familiar with these other ones. Could you recommend a small one in specific please that I can have a look at? nvm you did as I was typing this

 

[Confucius]

I have a basic 12v 1200VA inverter with built-in 10A charger hooked up to a 200Ah LiFePo battery. It just charges off AC - no solar here.
My issue is the 10A charge is not enough to keep up with stage 6 load shedding.

I'm looking at buying this or something like it - just a good quality charger that'll run at 20A or more.
The charge function on my existing inverter would be switched off so it would function purely as an inverter.

How do I wire up the charger? Just stick it in parallel?
Is there another component I need to add?

This doesn’t really make financial sense to me. You are going to buy nice charger but probably won’t use it in future unless you want to replace your inverter with a victron 12v inverter.

The other problem is that if you are disconnecting the charger on the existing inverter, I assume you mean by disconnecting the AC, the inverter is going to be constantly running off battery and the fans are going to be running constantly. I somehow don’t think those cheapy inverters will survive being on constantly 24/7.

Technically, it will work though.

I have a cheapy inverter with some shot batteries and a 4A adendorf charger, will connect it all up in parallel and revert if I’m still alive and it doesn’t blow up in my face.

 

[iamgigglz]

Your challenge is you're sort of tied in to the 12v 'ecosystem'. Very few decent options in the 12v space. You clearly paid a tidy sum for the battery and I'm guessing the inverter is a Mecer?

It's this from ACDC with this from Livestainable

Going on your basic requirements, I'm also guessing you don't want to exactly shell out a whole lot of bucks going 24v or better yet 48v, where there are a plethora more options available?

If I was to replace this system entirely it would be on a R25k budget, which I know is slim. I need 3kWh at 1200W peak and 300W+ charging.

Something like this would address your requirement

RCT Axpert VM2 1K12 1.2kVa 1.2kW 12V Hybrid Inverter

Please note that this item is available on pre-order with a lead time of 6 - 8 weeks. Features and Functions Pure sine wave solar inverter Output power factor 1 High PV input voltage range Battery independent design Built-in 100A MPPT solar charger Battery equalization function to optimize...

www.sustainable.co.za

Yeah I was looking at that. It's probably the best colution I've seen so far.
I'm concerned about "Rated Power: 1200VA/1200W" though. I've never seen a 1:1 ratio like that.

All that being said, were it me, I'd sell the whole bang shoot, start fresh with a 48v system 🤣

I'd love to but on R25k? Also, considering I really only need 3kWh, what's the smallest 48v battery out there?

 

[iamgigglz]

I contemplated the same thing. Maybe checkout the Victron Multiplus range, It is an inverter, 20 amp charger, and has a UPS function (unlike assembling victron parts individually). such as this

That's a 500W inverter, not enough by half. Also it's 48v. I'm 12v.
I'd need this for R13k. Honestly not a bad price for what it is but too much for me right now.

This doesn’t really make financial sense to me. You are going to buy nice charger but probably won’t use it in future unless you want to replace your inverter with a victron 12v inverter.

That's the plan.

This doesn’t really make financial sense to me. You are going to buy nice charger but probably won’t use it in future unless you want to replace your inverter with a victron 12v inverter.

The other problem is that if you are disconnecting the charger on the existing inverter, I assume you mean by disconnecting the AC

No, my current inverter has switches to switch off the charger or inverter functions separately.

 

[Ulwaysultra]

@iamgigglz

I have done something similar; I have this inverter with a 200ah LiFePO4 battery and only a 12v7a Charger this one.

I bought an additional that same 12/25 IP 67 charger and connected it in parallel by just connecting both chargers onto the positive and negative terminals.

They work perfect together and change between Bulk/absorption/storage within a few seconds of eachother and the charging times have been reduced drastically.

 

[Qui_Illustrati]

A quick, easy albeit complex and even 'dirty' fix isn't always wrong. If it saves you money but works just fine without risk to life or limb, then why not.

Just make sure you have the proper safety measures in place.

Out if curiosity, that budget of 25k, is that 25k on top of what you anticipate you'd get for your current kit?

 

[Phoenix Energy]

I have a basic 12v 1200VA inverter with built-in 10A charger hooked up to a 200Ah LiFePo battery. It just charges off AC - no solar here.
My issue is the 10A charge is not enough to keep up with stage 6 load shedding.

I'm looking at buying this or something like it - just a good quality charger that'll run at 20A or more.
The charge function on my existing inverter would be switched off so it would function purely as an inverter.

How do I wire up the charger? Just stick it in parallel?
Is there another component I need to add?

Why pay R3k for a charger when you can get something like a 12V RCT 1000W inverter for around 4-5k from someone like Progenix?

Victron is nice but yoh that price tag lol.

I see you say you want buy something better later on?

If you are willing to pay the victron premium, then there is nothing like it out there. Rock solid reliability and the modularity is amazing when it comes to any warranty issues.

I had a customer whose MPPT died, if he had any other system such a Deye or Sunsynk or any other brand actually, then he woulod have had to send the whole system as everything is integrated in 1 unit in those system and he would have been sitting in the dark during loadshedding.

Since the victron is modular he just sent in the MPPT for warranty and still had his quattro inverter with his battery bank to keep him happy and powered.

Nothing beats the Sunsynk/Deye inverters when it comes to value though, they can do everything a victron setup can do at a fraction of the price.

Mind you I have a sunsynk/deye fanboy and I currently have a Deye 5kW installed at home. But if I had the extra money, I would have gone with a victron system.

At the end of the day its all up to your wallet and how much you are willing to afford.

PS Please make sure the person who is going to setup/install your system is victron certified. I have seen way too many issues with victron installs and customers wanting to buy the hardware themselves and thinking they know what to buy and they end up missing some crucial components such as the Cerbo etc. And I need to try and find a supplier thats open on a Saturday so that I can buy victron components from

 

[Phoenix Energy]

All that being said, were it me, I'd sell the whole bang shoot, start fresh with a 48v system 🤣

This is my suggestion as well. I would suggest he buys a deye/sunsynk 5kW now with 4 x lead acids which should last him 6 months, by then he can buy a nice lithium battery

 

[Oops!!!]

No, my current inverter has switches to switch off the charger or inverter functions separately.

are you referring to the "working mode selector" with the "main supply and battery mode" options? if so i don't think that bypasses the switch gear/charger completely.

 

[Qui_Illustrati]

This is my suggestion as well. I would suggest he buys a deye/sunsynk 5kW now with 4 x lead acids which should last him 6 months, by then he can buy a nice lithium battery

Agree with the first part. Disagree with the second. As opposed to buying 4x lead acids right now, in the current energy crisis climate, a better idea would be just saving the angst that comes with lead acids these days and just go ahead and draw that money in cash and handing it to a good charity.

Or just add a bit more and get the lithiums off the bat. Never throw good money after bad.

 

[Phoenix Energy]

Or just add a bit more and get the lithiums off the bat. Never throw good money after bad.

While I agree. Its quite hard for someone just to fork out 60k for a 5kW inverter and 5kW battery just like that. Which is why I suggest the lead acid route for them as they can get some relief for at least 6 months and when they do have funds available for a lithium setup

 

[Qui_Illustrati]

While I agree. Its quite hard for someone just to fork out 60k for a 5kW inverter and 5kW battery just like that. Which is why I suggest the lead acid route for them as they can get some relief for at least 6 months and when they do have funds available for a lithium setup

Realistically though, with Stage 8 looming you reckon that battery bank will last 6 months? 😁 At a cost of what, being very conservative, let's say 12k for 4x 100ah lead acids. It's a wasted 12k in my humble opinion.

But, I do get your point around affordability. Just seems counter intuitive throwing money away in the long run.

 

[iamgigglz]

Why pay R3k for a charger when you can get something like a 12V RCT 1000W inverter for around 4-5k from someone like Progenix?

Have you ever tried buying just one thing from Progenix? I swear if I buy an inverter from them I'll end up with a 4080 as well
Actually that's an amazing suggestion. I forgot Progenix stocks this stuff and voila! Why is it green though?

are you referring to the "working mode selector" with the "main supply and battery mode" options? if so i don't think that bypasses the switch gear/charger completely.

There are literally two on/off switches on the face of the unit. One labelled "Inverter" and the other labelled "Charger".

<points about a 5kw system>

<other points about a 5kw system>

I don't need that kind of power. I use 3kWh at most and never draw more than 1200W. A 5kW 48v system is overkill.
My current system works fine. I just need to be able to charge it faster, so I either need a charger or an inverter that does so.

 

[Phoenix Energy]

Have you ever tried buying just one thing from Progenix? I swear if I buy an inverter from them I'll end up with a 4080 as well
Actually that's an amazing suggestion. I forgot Progenix stocks this stuff and voila! Why is it green though?

Do yourself a favour and get the 4080 as well

I don't need that kind of power. I use 3kWh at most and never draw more than 1200W. A 5kW 48v system is overkill.
My current system works fine. I just need to be able to charge it faster, so I either need a charger or an inverter that does so.

Reason why I'm saying 48V is because you get more bang for your buck on 48V batteries

A pylon 24V 2.8kWh is around 20-22k

While a Revov 48V 5kWh battery goes for R26-27k

And trust me. Once you get a proper setup on a 3kW system you will kick yourself for not taking the 5KW system. Ive done upgrades just months apart where people call me back and say "Please can you upgrade our 3Kw inverter with a 5kW we want to run more things during loadshedding since we have gotten used to having power now"

And now they need to buy another battery as the 24V battery wouldnt work on a 48V inverter

 

[Qui_Illustrati]

I don't need that kind of power. A 5kW 48v system is overkill.

Let's see how well this ages 😁
The rabbit hole is deep and down the hole you'll go.

In all seriousness though, sounds like you have a comprehensive understanding of your requirements which is good.

 

[qw1ktoggel]

That's a 500W inverter, not enough by half. Also it's 48v. I'm 12v.
I'd need this for R13k. Honestly not a bad price for what it is but too much for me right now.


That's the plan.


No, my current inverter has switches to switch off the charger or inverter functions separately.

Yeah I said check out the range. There are 12V, 24v, or 48v. It's a 12 or 24 or 48 volt inverter. Also Victrons have high peak wattage they accept. In the datasheet the 800W has a peak of 1600W.

I agree though R13k for the wattage is an insane amount. Just my 2 cents. Looking forward to follwing this and seeing the solution you go with.