Advice needed: Replacing UPS Batteries with LiFePo4

[FrikkieDieSoldaat]

Good day my fellow Carbies!

As in the tittle, I need some advise on replacing older Lead acid batteries on my super old UPS.

Model: Tescom APEX 1500
Input: 220Vac - 240Vac, 50/60Hz, 9A Max, 1Ø
Output: 220Vac - 240Vac, 50/60Hz, 1Ø
Capacity: 1500VA/900W
I cannot get any info online on this model ups, its still working great, when loadshedding starts, it kicks in with no issues, we are currently running our embroidery machine and server at the workshop on this. It saved many a garment from loadshedding, but the batteries has run its course and now I can't risk a R1500 jacket if loadshedding looms.

The batteries I am currently looking at:

GIZZU 12V 7AH LIFEPO4 REPLACEMENT BATTERY - Syntech

The Gizzu 12V 7Ah Lithium-Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) Battery is the perfect replacement solution for devices and machines relying on lead batteries, such as gate motors, alarm systems, electric fences & CCTV. With a battery management system and up to 10x more life than lead acid batteries, you...

www.syntech.co.za

• Max Charge Current: 7Ah
• Standard Voltage: 12.8V (89.6Wh)
• Constant Discharge Current: 10A
• Charge Current: Normal Charging Current: 3A, Max Charging Current: 7A

Will these batteries work in my ups or am I too optimistic?

 

[NI∀ƆOƆ‾⊥ᴚ∩ʞ]

That battery wont work, its for gate motors, alarm systems and electric fences.

You need a 12V 100AH.

 

[G-spot]

I had a similar UPS that I used at home, It killed lead acid and gel batteries every time we had prolonged outages.

Swopped over to LifePo, Basically the same as above, and they worked great, Lasted much much longer than gel or lead acid batteries. Charged fine and could be revived if fully depleted.

The charger in the UPS couldn't charge it back up if it died, Had to take them out and charge them with a car charger, But then they were perfect again for months. Was told its some protection thing on the BMS. Other than that it worked fine.

Mine used 2x 12v 7ah batteries

 

[IceQB]

Think the 1500 has 2x 12V 9ah batteries

 

[G-spot]

That battery wont work, its for gate motors, alarm systems and electric fences.

You need a 12V 100AH.

The 1500va uses 9ah batteries isn't it

 

[FrikkieDieSoldaat]

That battery wont work, its for gate motors, alarm systems and electric fences.

You need a 12V 100AH.

Any link to a 12V 100AH battery that will work?

 

[NI∀ƆOƆ‾⊥ᴚ∩ʞ]

Sorry boys, I'm wrong. Ill see myself out.

 

[QYV]

I had a similar UPS that I used at home, It killed lead acid and gel batteries every time we had prolonged outages.

Swopped over to LifePo, Basically the same as above, and they worked great, Lasted much much longer than gel or lead acid batteries. Charged fine and could be revived if fully depleted.

The charger in the UPS couldn't charge it back up if it died, Had to take them out and charge them with a car charger, But then they were perfect again for months. Was told its some protection thing on the BMS. Other than that it worked fine.

Mine used 2x 12v 7ah batteries

This should work just fine yes.
One could even use larger capacity batteries too.
Heat might be an issue with some battery and UPS configs though, although there are some folks who have modded the UPS housing or just extended the cabling to the battery and kept them external to the UPS:

Not brave enough to do something like this yet.

 

[eyetac]

I had the same issue @G-spot. The LiPo batteries were way way better than the Lead Acid or Gel batteries, but my UPS wouldn't charge them. I tried in both an RCT 1200VA and a K-Star 1200VA.
Sadly, the UPS circuitry doesn't know what to do with the Lithium batteries.

Unless your UPS states it can support Lithium, you may be SOL.

 

[Confucius]

Any 12v lithium should work. Ah determines how long it lasts. Not sure what the power requirement is on your embroidery machine and server.

Those Gizu batteries are for light loads since the peak current won’t be high. As mentioned, the battery will shit down if the voltage drops too low and then you can’t charge it again inside the ups. Take the battery out, use a standard battery charger to charge it and it will be fine again.

 

[G-spot]

I had the same issue @G-spot. The LiPo batteries were way way better than the Lead Acid or Gel batteries, but my UPS wouldn't charge them. I tried in both an RCT 1200VA and a K-Star 1200VA.
Sadly, the UPS circuitry doesn't know what to do with the Lithium batteries.

Unless your UPS states it can support Lithium, you may be SOL.

I don't think that's completely true, These sealed lifePo batteries come with a built in BMS to make them function like the old LA or Gel batteries, Which is why they can be used as a drop in replacement in alarms and gate/garage motors. Maybe its an issue with the RCT units, I know the k-star/macer and APC ups' work just fine. I had 2x APC 48v units, and done the same on my dads Macer and my FIL's k-star which I eventually modded to run 2x 100ah batteries after blowing the other one up. 48v into a 12v ups goes poof lol

My 2 APC's still run like a dream, One runs a TV for 4.5 hours and the other the wifi and fibre routers for about 6.5 hours at the holiday house, My dads Macer still runs his wifi and such for about 1.5 years now and the 2400 k-star is used to fill in the 90sec or so it takes is "super advanced" inverter to switch over when the grid drops. but that's just 2 lead acid deep cycle batteries

The APC units I have been using for year are fuck old, Im sure they kept the lights on in noah's ark. They are still beige ffs lol
But work awesomely

 

[eyetac]

I don't think that's completely true, These sealed lifePo batteries come with a built in BMS to make them function like the old LA or Gel batteries, Which is why they can be used as a drop in replacement in alarms and gate/garage motors. Maybe its an issue with the RCT units, I know the k-star/macer and APC ups' work just fine. I had 2x APC 48v units, and done the same on my dads Macer and my FIL's k-star which I eventually modded to run 2x 100ah batteries after blowing the other one up. 48v into a 12v ups goes poof lol

My 2 APC's still run like a dream, One runs a TV for 4.5 hours and the other the wifi and fibre routers for about 6.5 hours at the holiday house, My dads Macer still runs his wifi and such for about 1.5 years now and the 2400 k-star is used to fill in the 90sec or so it takes is "super advanced" inverter to switch over when the grid drops. but that's just 2 lead acid deep cycle batteries

The APC units I have been using for year are fuck old, Im sure they kept the lights on in noah's ark. They are still beige ffs lol
But work awesomely

Then you are very lucky or I don't know what I'm doing, haha.

I have a 1200VA and 650VA RCT, neither of which charged the 12v7ah securiprod batteries I had.
If I charged them externally, they would work great, but when power came back on, the UPS would trip and not turn on until you loaded LA or Gel batteries to revive it.

The K-Star 1200VA was the same story. Dead as a doornail when power came back to the UPS.

I even fit 2x different equalisers and it made no difference.

 

[eyetac]

Just read this on the Gizzu battery link OP posted:

Please note: Only use this battery inside a UPS if the UPS low voltage disconnect can be set to 12V, or if you are sure the UPS will last longer than the time you are going to be without power. Otherwise, if the UPS is run until it stops working (battery voltage is too low and BMS low voltage protection will be triggered) then the UPS will not turn on when the power comes on. The battery BMS needs a charge to wake up and the UPS won’t turn on and charge it without a battery being detected.

So, it would seem that the BMS Low Voltage Protection is triggered in the battery because the UPS won't give it the power it wants.

 

[FrikkieDieSoldaat]

Just read this on the Gizzu battery link OP posted:

Please note: Only use this battery inside a UPS if the UPS low voltage disconnect can be set to 12V, or if you are sure the UPS will last longer than the time you are going to be without power. Otherwise, if the UPS is run until it stops working (battery voltage is too low and BMS low voltage protection will be triggered) then the UPS will not turn on when the power comes on. The battery BMS needs a charge to wake up and the UPS won’t turn on and charge it without a battery being detected.

So, it would seem that the BMS Low Voltage Protection is triggered in the battery because the UPS won't give it the power it wants.

I've read the statement. BMS I take is stands for Battery Management System, or Blue Mountain State, but those idiots won't know what a LiFePO4 battery is... =)

I recon this old school Tescom UPS does have a low voltage protection function as when the lead acid batteries that are in has been run to as low as can go, it switches of automatically.

I've replaced the original batteries in February or March with a recommendation of one my clients but like I said, they don't last long enough anymore. The embroidery machine is very power efficient at 90-240V and 0.15KW. The file server gets shutdown as soon as the power goes out. Then we have a small Dell 19" 1366x720p monitor and a Lenovo Legion Y540 Laptop, and a wifi range extender thats connected to the ups.

We've run this UPS to 0 a few times and it still charges, my logic tells me that there must be a Low Voltage protection function of some sort in there. Oh and it also has a nice and loud fan that spins up as soon as it comes on, might be just for the capasitors and transistors onboard, not battery cooling.

 

[Triggerxi77]

I had the same issue @G-spot. The LiPo batteries were way way better than the Lead Acid or Gel batteries, but my UPS wouldn't charge them. I tried in both an RCT 1200VA and a K-Star 1200VA.
Sadly, the UPS circuitry doesn't know what to do with the Lithium batteries.

Unless your UPS states it can support Lithium, you may be SOL.

Similar experience here. Got a drop in lithium 12V 100ah battery at around R10 000for power trolley and it was just not happy. It depends on the charger. Kithiums charge characteristics is not the same as lead acid or gel or AGM andnif thr charger is not made for lithium it does not owrk in my opinion. I'd rather get a good deepcycle 12v 100ah AGM for R4000.