Advice for R117 000 stolen via digital wallet - FNB

[superrob]

Sadly I had a similar experience to this on one of my cards but I'm a bit of a nut and thought what if somebody steals my device or cards so I changed limits to try compensate should that occur.

One Christmas period I get a call from FNB stating I've reached a limit and it seems like suspicious activity on one of my accounts, it was only for 25k fortunately at that stage but due to the transactions been of the same digital nature as yours they got off Scott free with money transferred to somewhere in Europe as far as the transactions stated.

FNB alarm bells did not sound until it had reached the limit and they did not cover me for the loss at that stage either due to the type of transactions.

So I'm sure you've followed these suggestions for Fraud Incident reporting process with their claims form?

I do hear RMB is better in these situations however that isn't of any help to say now.

 

[geometricflux]

So I'm sure you've followed these suggestions for Fraud Incident reporting process with their claims form?

Yes, we have reached step 6 where they sent us a refute letter, stating that they will not be taking liability for the lost funds, but can reimburse 20% of the stolen money

 

[pɐlΛ‾pɐq‾ƃᴉq]

Yes, we have reached step 6 where they sent us a refute letter, stating that they will not be taking liability for the lost funds, but can reimburse 20% of the stolen money

Move

 

[Switch]

Move

And switch to a credit card, the utmost basic no frills lowest limit cheapest option is better than a debit card.

 

[geometricflux]

Move

Indeed, it was actually my first words to my father after I read the refute letter

 

[rinners]

Yes, we have reached step 6 where they sent us a refute letter, stating that they will not be taking liability for the lost funds, but can reimburse 20% of the stolen money

So they were only partly at fault!?

 

[pɐlΛ‾pɐq‾ƃᴉq]

So they were only partly at fault!?

20% at fault to be exact.

 

[eY_b0ss]

My girlfriend had money taken from her credit card 3 weeks ago, it was 3 payments of the same amount for a UK based gym video subscription service.

Totaled 5k.

She's with Capitec, they told her they can't reverse it anymore, but 2 weeks later they refunded it for her in full including the bank fees.

 

[goldfritter]

credit card

Operative word here unfortunately, in OP's case it was a debit card. Much less recourse there.

 

[disipher]

My girlfriend had money taken from her credit card 3 weeks ago, it was 3 payments of the same amount for a UK based gym video subscription service.

Totaled 5k.

She's with Capitec, they told her they can't reverse it anymore, but 2 weeks later they refunded it for her in full including the bank fees

credit card vs debit, they dont care when its your money, only theirs

 

[biatch30]

There may be a rule on the account and not the card that can circumvent the type of card being used. One can link any card to a current account as facilities are all embedded into one account nowadays. The dispute rules are typically defined against the product/account but maybe RMB is different in this case. Unsure if one can also get PASA (Payments Association of South Africa) involved on public affairs.

 

[el3venth]

With the Paypal connection, just check that he did not have a Paypal account somewhere and used his debit card.
It might be that he used his card for a Paypal transaction yonks ago and then the Paypal got hacked. Or worse, he uses the same password on all websites.

So check his email against Have I Been Pwned: Check if your email has been compromised in a data breach to see if his email account has been compromised somewhere. If he uses the same password everywhere, there is a good chance that every single website he uses has been compromised and his password is known.

 

[Foxfire675]

So this exact thing is happening to someone at my workplace right now. Getting purchase notifications from USA. I just helped her blocked the card now via the FNB app.

 

[RaptorChris]

So this exact thing is happening to someone at my workplace right now. Getting purchase notifications from USA. I just helped her blocked the card now via the FNB app.

I'd be more nervous but they would be lucky to get R300 out of my account with how I keep buying PC parts

 

[Pickled_Dick]

This is why i only ever use my credit card for any purchases.

Not my money.

 

[TheJudge]

I'm a credit card or cash in hand person. My experience of American payment systems is that you can pay money by accidentally looking at an online store wrong if they have your details, none of that "are you sure" kinda stuff or those pesky security roadblocks.

Standard Bank fraud have been pretty good, even called me when I made a Steam purchase! Also stopped some poes maxing the wife's CC in a bottle store somewhere in the Paarl area.

 

[Switch]

She's with Capitec, they told her they can't reverse it anymore, but 2 weeks later they refunded it for her in full including the bank fees

The other major banks allows for up to 90/120 days from transaction to lodge a dispute and chargeback, there other some pre-requisite steps to do such as trying to get the merchant to refund, etc, but definitely more than a two week grace period. Of course the earlier you report it the better.

 

[el3venth]

The other major banks allows for up to 90/120 days from transaction to lodge a dispute and chargeback, there other some pre-requisite steps to do such as trying to get the merchant to refund, etc, but definitely more than a two week grace period. Of course the earlier you report it the better.

The 90 days dispute resolution and chargeback is only on credit cards.

 

[TRINITRON]

BTW. I think the Pp* reference is Paypal

I believe its just payment portal or something since I get that my side on Amazon services and Peach payment etc

 

[TRINITRON]

He imports car parts frequently, so that s why his limit was so high. It is now R1

That international import history could be why it wasnt flagged, unlucky

 

[Switch]

The 90 days dispute resolution and chargeback is only on credit cards.

My girlfriend had money taken from her credit card...

Read in context thanks.

 

[moedeez]

So this exact thing is happening to someone at my workplace right now. Getting purchase notifications from USA. I just helped her blocked the card now via the FNB app.

Sheesh, was this a debit card as well? Is it also PayPal charges?

 

[superrob]

I chatted to somebody they said there is every possibility that the ombudsman assists you in this scenario as long as you have adequate proof that your father has not made purchases in any similar manner before. Cannot tell you how long it will take though or if it's a guarantee but it's a glimmer of hope and better then not trying @geometricflux

 

[SteveIndeed]

This is why i only ever use my credit card for any purchases.

Not my money.

Likewise.

I have a debit card but there is only ever a maximum of a few hundred bucks in the account linked to the card. All my purchases during the month go through my credit card, even the subs for my fibre line, which is then settled in full at the end of every month. The salary goes into an account which is not linked to any card and cannot be withdrawn from immediately - at least 24 hours' notice is needed. So if the buggers ever try to 'steal' from me, they'll be taking the bank's money.

@geometricflux, approach the ombudsman with all proof in hand. Unlike the useless motor industry ombud, the banking ombudsman isn't afraid to rule against the bank when it's clear that the client had no role to play in the fraud or the cause of it.

 

[Iggy667]

The Pp* references PayPal transactions but yea I'm pretty surprised that FNB/RMB stopped this almost immediately just due to the timing of the transactions. Really sorry about this, but you're just going to have to deal with Fraud Division and hopefully they resolve it and give you the money back.

I think keep the daily limits low for now and toggle the amounts when you need to do these transfers/transactions etc.

Also, don't keep large amounts of money in your debit account. Keep it in a non-transactional account to prevent things like this and do internal transfers.

I'd even go as far as trying to contact PayPal (they're also not the best to deal with, but maybe they can just provide more information or put a stop on their end).

 

[Foxfire675]

Sheesh, was this a debit card as well? Is it also PayPal charges?

Yup was a debit card! I'm not sure if it was Paypal. Will ask when she's back at work on Monday.

 

[Skylark]

Operative word here unfortunately, in OP's case it was a debit card. Much less recourse there.

They have the same protections and recourse these days.

 

[Skylark]

Op, did FNB explain exactly what the transactions were and the method in which they were done?
The only fraud they don't cover is pin protected transactions or via a verified device.
As has been mentioned the Pp in the transaction screenshots would imply the transactions were done via Payapl, have you contacted them?

 

[madness_inc]

He imports car parts frequently, so that s why his limit was so high. It is now R1

I suspect he was compromised this way

 

[geometricflux]

Op, did FNB explain exactly what the transactions were and the method in which they were done?
The only fraud they don't cover is pin protected transactions or via a verified device.
As has been mentioned the Pp in the transaction screenshots would imply the transactions were done via Payapl, have you contacted them?

Unfortunately FNB hasn't given any other info other than the refute letter and that they can cover 20%. We have asked for more info and how exactly the digital wallet was created. Will update this thread with more info when they get back to us.

We haven't tried contacting Paypal yet, but will definitely do so. Will also talk to Ombud for more insight into further options if FNB are stubborn and withhold information.