Advice for R117 000 stolen via digital wallet - FNB

[PJtheKILL3R]

Unfortunately FNB hasn't given any other info other than the refute letter and that they can cover 20%

My spidey senses say that if they are willing to give you 20% that means they know they have some liability here.

 

[solz]

I can't believe that the bank didn't auto stop duplicate transactions.
if I remember correctly ABSA does this as it picks this up as fraud attempt.

I would reach out so that they need to prove that this was authenticated as they say.
So they need to provide you with proof that this is not their fault.

Had same issue with a guy i helped last year with cloned card that lost his pay. He didn't get any notification of the money being withdrawn.
This was also a guy that didn't have access to any digital channels, but he spent countless hours going to the bank to try resolve it.
But i ended up spamming a few of their emails with daily mails and got his money back.

 

[johnny_h]

Gezus that is some dodgy as hell transaction patterns, fnb not stopping it or alerting you to it is extremely weird.

Also, they should still be disputable. Whether they're debit or credit cards, they should still have the same authorization flow ie first a charge is placed on the card, then it gets settled a few days later. If you alerted them to it on the same day, they should have been able to do something about it.

Also, being a debit card doesn't mean that you can't do a chargeback. Visa's site says

"

Could you get your money back?​

If you’ve paid with a Visa credit, debit or pre-paid card and your purchase has gone wrong, you may be entitled to ask for a refund. Your first step should always be to contact the seller, but if you're unable to resolve the situation to your satisfaction, your card provider may still be able to help you."

And regarding it being a wallet transaction
"

If you paid using a digital wallet​

If your Visa card purchase was made using a digital wallet where the payment was made with a linked card, chargeback and Section 75 claims work in the same way as if you paid directly with your card.

If you paid with a linked Visa credit card, see the ‘I paid with a credit card’ section. If you paid with a linked debit or pre-paid card, please see the ‘I paid with a debit or pre-paid card’ section."

So it shouldn't be treated any differently to if it was a purchase with your regular card.

Chargeback: Debit & Credit Card Purchase Disputes

Learn all the need-to-knows around payment disputes and chargebacks, including when you're entitled to make a claim and how to go about doing so.

www.visa.co.uk

Also, from Visa's site
"How our Zero Liability Policy works

Pay worry-free​

You can pay securely with your Visa debit or credit card to make purchases both online and in-store locally or when travelling abroad. We have payment technology in-place to help detect and prevent scams and fraud, however, if it does happen, you have protection"

https://www.visa.co.uk/pay-with-visa/security/

FNB should really be doing more for you

 

[Phokkit]

I had something similar happened to me last week. Luckily I had my phone on me when the first transaction went through and I immediately blocked my card and had Capitec's fraud department put a lock on my account. Two transactions of R249 went through (origin of transaction was USA) and multiple declined transactions, which I was charged for.
Capitec did a investigation and 3 days later fully refunded my account

 

[geometricflux]

So FNB came back to us, they are gping to open an investigation, meaning, they never investigated in the first place wow. Should hear more from them Tuesday

 

[Dom]

So FNB came back to us, they are gping to open an investigation, meaning, they never investigated in the first place wow. Should hear more from them Tuesday

This is sadly as douchey as they are.

 

[ColdChainZA]

Saw this article pop up, may have some answers for you

Warning over new tap-and-go banking scam in South Africa

The Ombudsman for Banking Services has recorded a rise in criminals tapping into contactless payment systems to defraud South Africans out of millions of rands.

businesstech.co.za

 

[Oj0]

My experience of American payment systems is that you can pay money by accidentally looking at an online store wrong if they have your details, none of that "are you sure" kinda stuff or those pesky security roadblocks.

Pizza Perfect is the same. I accidentally ordered pizza a while ago, expecting to at least have to confirm on the FNB app. Nope, boom, fed.

 

[SpaceWalker]

Pizza Perfect is the same. I accidentally ordered pizza a while ago, expecting to at least have to confirm on the FNB app. Nope, boom, fed.

Seems Stripe payments do the same at times. Bought a software license at work yesterday. No confirmation requested, just needed to enter the card info. Did a Paygate-based payment the day before using the same card and it had to be confirmed on the FNB App.

 

[geometricflux]

So FNB got back to us with the investigation results, seems like it was a Phishing scam.

 

[Qui_Illustrati]

So FNB got back to us with the investigation results, seems like it was a Phishing scam.

So, no refund then? A successful phishing attack relies on the victims naivety essentially and I'd imagine FNB would cite no fault on their side?

 

[Fife]

So FNB got back to us with the investigation results, seems like it was a Phishing scam.

There are so many flaws in this, how did this go from a digital wallet theft to a phishing scam? The fact that this "investigation" was completed in less than 4 working days is sus to be honest, and their lack of divulgence of information and willingness to reimburse some funds with a hush order indicates to me they probably have a fault in their system.

If their reimbursement is close to the total amount and not worth the fight, then accept it, but if you're going to lose more than a few thousand rand because of their failure of a fraud prevention system then I would fight them.

 

[Confucius]

So, no refund then? A successful phishing attack relies on the victims naivety essentially and I'd imagine FNB would cite no fault on their side?

I thought your comprehension skills have gone down the drain like the rest of SA…. But then I see the OP edited his last post. 🤣

 

[geometricflux]

So, no refund then? A successful phishing attack relies on the victims naivety essentially and I'd imagine FNB would cite no fault on their side?

I wanted to post their full response here, but part of the settlement deal is confidentiality of their offer of 'Goodwill". I have no legal experience whatsoever so not sure if I have already breached this confidentiality clause already lol...

Beware Postnet Phishing scams, I suspect my father was compromised like this since he ordered engines and other parts overseas and then has to pay postnet sometimes.

 

[Confucius]

Agree. Asking to sign a non disclosure and signing away any right to further claims means they have something to hide.

If they can’t prove how this happened, if a digital wallet was never activated, to me means they have something to hide.

If they are not offering much, I would threaten to do the total opposite of just shutting up.

 

[ovisser1]

Beware Postnet Phishing scams, I suspect my father was compromised like this since he ordered engines and other parts overseas and then has to pay postnet sometimes.

Why postnet ?

AFAIK international for postnet comes in via aramex ?

 

[Confucius]

I wanted to post their full response here, but part of the settlement deal is confidentiality of their offer of 'Goodwill". I have no legal experience whatsoever so not sure if I have already breached this confidentiality clause already lol...

Beware Postnet Phishing scams, I suspect my father was compromised like this since he ordered engines and other parts overseas and then has to pay postnet sometimes.

Unless there was a non disclosure originally, which you accepted, they should not be able to hold you liable. But if you signed / accepted such a nda originally, the. You could very well be screwed.

 

[Fife]

Beware Postnet Phishing scams, I suspect my father was compromised like this since he ordered engines and other parts overseas and then has to pay postnet sometimes.

This still doesn't make sense. You should be able to get all the information of which merchant and acquirer these payments went through, and use that to launch a case against them. How this went through a payment system for the same amount and account over multiple transactions in short succession in a different country flabbergasts me that no fraud bells went off.

 

[geometricflux]

Why postnet ?

AFAIK international for postnet comes in via aramex ?

I went through his phone and saw some SMS's from postnet saying he needs to pay R4 for something. The site looked legit but the color gradients were 'off'. Not sure if it was actually postnet or not. I pay cash when picking things up from postnet.

Also, his SMS inbox is full of fucking scammers, I occasionally receive such SMSs, but his are on a weekly basis.

 

[ovisser1]

I went through his phone and saw some SMS's from postnet saying he needs to pay R4 for something. The site looked legit but the color gradients were 'off'. Not sure if it was actually postnet or not. I pay cash when picking things up from postnet.

Also, his SMS inbox is full of fucking scammers, I occasionally receive such SMSs, but his are on a weekly basis.

I get those as well every time I order internationally (even when shipping via DHL), it is 100% a scam.

 

[Qui_Illustrati]

I went through his phone and saw some SMS's from postnet saying he needs to pay R4 for something. The site looked legit but the color gradients were 'off'. Not sure if it was actually postnet or not. I pay cash when picking things up from postnet.

Also, his SMS inbox is full of fucking scammers, I occasionally receive such SMSs, but his are on a weekly basis.

Load up Truecaller as the default messaging app. Doesn't filter 'em all, but gets most of 'em.

 

[geometricflux]

I get those as well every time I order internationally (even when shipping via DHL), it is 100% a scam.

Yeah, I ordered some stuff from Ali and I get these scams too. To verify its a scam I usually use the tracking number the scammers give (without clicking any link) and search via DHL legit site.

 

[geometricflux]

Now just trying to prevent this from happening again, but my cyber security skills are rudimentary at best. I mean I click on every link on carb

 

[geometricflux]

Now then, if anyone needs anything from Amazon, I'm sure @UrBaN_BuNnY is ordering a container, be sure to DM him .


Thanks all for the great input and insight. I have been liaising with my father and after pushing FNB somewhat for more info etc. it seems he may or may not receive some funds at least, allegedly.

 

[ovisser1]

Now then, if anyone needs anything from Amazon, I'm sure @UrBaN_BuNnY is ordering a container, be sure to DM him .


Thanks all for the great input and insight. I have been liaising with my father and after pushing FNB somewhat for more info etc. it seems he may or may not receive some funds at least, allegedly.

I would have fought for every cent, only considering stopping after they start saying words like harassment.
Phishing or not, they REALLY should have flagged this as suspicious and stopped at around transaction 5, not let all 100+ through without a blink.

 

[geometricflux]

I would have fought for every cent, only considering stopping after they start saying words like harassment.
Phishing or not, they REALLY should have flagged this as suspicious and stopped at around transaction 5, not let all 100+ through without a blink.

Although this might end in my father recouping the entire lost sum, it poses risk of not receiving anything as the alleged offer would then be voided..
I do agree its ludicrous that there were no fraud flags triggered after the 5th transaction.

 

[DieLyn]

Although this might end in my father recouping the entire lost sum, it poses risk of not receiving anything as the alleged offer would then be voided..
I do agree its ludicrous that there were no fraud flags triggered after the 5th transaction.

What did they offer you? Like 20%?

 

[Del Piero 10]

@geometricflux

I saw this article on business insider - Warning over new tap-and-go banking scam in South Africa

If the banking ombudsman is aware of this scam, FNB knows full well they have some flaws in their security. I'd suggest you contact the banking ombudsman and watch FNB change their tune.

 

[Skylark]

@geometricflux

I saw this article on business insider - Warning over new tap-and-go banking scam in South Africa

If the banking ombudsman is aware of this scam, FNB knows full well they have some flaws in their security. I'd suggest you contact the banking ombudsman and watch FNB change their tune.

That scam is based off of phishing, it's not the banks fault people fall for scams where they authenticate a digital wallet installation of their cards on the scammers device. As was mentioned in the article.

 

[L-Dog]

@geometricflux

I saw this article on business insider - Warning over new tap-and-go banking scam in South Africa

If the banking ombudsman is aware of this scam, FNB knows full well they have some flaws in their security. I'd suggest you contact the banking ombudsman and watch FNB change their tune.

Heard consumer journalist Wendy Knowler talk about it on the money show yesterday. Apparenlty its an international syndicate and they have hit an increasing amount of customers for totalting millions. Don't think there is a solution just dont click on a phising link but sometimes its difficult especialy if you are waiting for a package from teh post office and you get a phising link that looks like teh post office