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1armbandit

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My hardware knowledge is limited.
I currently edit on a i7 3770k
My motherboard is maxed out at 24gigs DDR3 ram.
I have a 1080ti GPU with 11Gigs vram and that's about all I know about the specs.

Premiere pro seens to run far better on 8 core systems feom my research.

I don't have much budget. 5k.
Maybe more if I can sell current setup?

I would like to know my options?
Was thinking of trying to pick up a used motherboard CPU ram combo.

Would really appreciate any advice.


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If you using AE/FX then RAM is also quite welcomed by the system.

Ryzen 6 core systems are also really powerful for this. R5-7 6-8 core CPU's are great value chips and will go a long way. Obviously newer is better, so even something like the 3600 is a great all rounder.

 
Thanks Ja iv been monitoring system recourses while editing seems CPU maxed out often where as ram Is OK.

Excuse my ignorance but would those ryzen CPUs be compatible with my current motherboard?


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Nope, you would need a new combo CPU/RAM/MOBO, you should be able to find one under 5K
 
My hardware knowledge is limited.
I currently edit on a i7 3770k
My motherboard is maxed out at 24gigs DDR3 ram.
I have a 1080ti GPU with 11Gigs vram and that's about all I know about the specs.

Premiere pro seens to run far better on 8 core systems feom my research.

I don't have much budget. 5k.
Maybe more if I can sell current setup?

I would like to know my options?
Was thinking of trying to pick up a used motherboard CPU ram combo.

Would really appreciate any advice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Welcome to Carbonite :)

Premier benefits hugely from additional cores, of course extra RAM wouldn't hurt.

The issue you face is, the technology you are currently running is very much out of date. Even though you have a fair amount of memory, it is DDR3 whereas most newer systems today use DDR4 memory (and it's not backwards compatible).

Should you choose to upgrade, you would have to buy a new cpu, motherboard and memory. The entry level AMD cpu, Ryzen 5 3600 is a 6 core cpu with 12 threads, whereas your current cpu is a 4 core 8 thread cpu. The Ryzen is considerably faster (clock for clock and core for core) and will speed up your workloads considerably.

Unfortunately the other problem you face is your budget. At R5k (excluding what you would/could get for your old setup) you would have enough to only cover the cpu. I sell the AMD's right here on Carbonite over here : [Reseller] - AMD Ryzen™ 3000 Series Processors - Come Look! | Resellers Forum

Entry level cpu = Ryzen 5 3600 = R4000
Decent'ish motherboard = R2500
16gb memory = R2000 give or take (double that if you want to go 32gb).

So at the very least you would need to look at upping your budget (saving a bit more) or look at older tech. The issue with older tech is, you won't get the benefits of the multicore AMD setup and you would most likely have to buy 2nd hand.

Feel free to drop me a private message should you require more advice.

Thanks @SILTECH786 for the mention :)
 
Welcome to Carbonite :)

Premier benefits hugely from additional cores, of course extra RAM wouldn't hurt.

The issue you face is, the technology you are currently running is very much out of date. Even though you have a fair amount of memory, it is DDR3 whereas most newer systems today use DDR4 memory (and it's not backwards compatible).

Should you choose to upgrade, you would have to buy a new cpu, motherboard and memory. The entry level AMD cpu, Ryzen 5 3600 is a 6 core cpu with 12 threads, whereas your current cpu is a 4 core 8 thread cpu. The Ryzen is considerably faster (clock for clock and core for core) and will speed up your workloads considerably.

Unfortunately the other problem you face is your budget. At R5k (excluding what you would/could get for your old setup) you would have enough to only cover the cpu. I sell the AMD's right here on Carbonite over here : [Reseller] - AMD Ryzen[emoji769] 3000 Series Processors - Come Look! | Resellers Forum

Entry level cpu = Ryzen 5 3600 = R4000
Decent'ish motherboard = R2500
16gb memory = R2000 give or take (double that if you want to go 32gb).

So at the very least you would need to look at upping your budget (saving a bit more) or look at older tech. The issue with older tech is, you won't get the benefits of the multicore AMD setup and you would most likely have to buy 2nd hand.

Feel free to drop me a private message should you require more advice.

Thanks @SILTECH786 for the mention :)

Thanks this is very informative.
I'll see what could get for my old system.
As my current system is out of date was hoping I could maybe get a newer less out of date system within budget 2nd hand.
At least I know know abit more what to look for.
Thanks


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Have a look at this?


You will need RAM but it has gang potential and it takes care of the motherboard, CPU and cooler.
 
Have a look at this?


You will need RAM but it has gang potential and it takes care of the motherboard, CPU and cooler.

Thanks I'll check it out.


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OK thanks but my GPU will work?


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I think people have missed this. I've spent some time working Premiere Pro video editing rigs, and here are my takeaways.

- Premiere has recently allowed hardware (GPU) encoding when rendering H264 and HEVC. This MASSIVELY speeds up video rendering times - think 2 minutes instead of 20 minutes, depending on workload. More details: Adobe flips on GPU-accelerated encoding for Premiere Pro, and wow it's fast
- So suddenly GPU does matter for rendering, where in the past it was not very important for Premiere.
- That said your 1080Ti is a BEAST for rendering and probably won't need to be upgraded for ages. I know the benchmarks tell a different story, but I compared renders (mixed 1080p footage, animations, etc.) on a 1080 non-Ti vs a 2070 SUPER. Based on benchmarks the 2070 should have creamed the 1080 but the difference was absolutely minimal - 2-3 seconds faster on the 1080 actually.
- Plus the 1080Ti has 11GB of VRAM which is more than most cards. This should help make scrubbing along your timeline faster. I would NOT recommend ever getting a card with less VRAM than this because that would likely be a downgrade for you. So keep the 1080Ti until cards with bigger VRAM become affordable.

With that out of the way, some more advice:
- Premiere will happily use all the RAM you give it, but how much is needed depends on the edit - specifically how many and how large your source files are. If you have tons of source videos then you can easily hit 40GB + of RAM usage even at 1080P. So I would recommend at least 32GB (especially since you're coming from 24GB), but if you do do really big renders, then more is better. Note here that RAM speed should make very little difference so DDR4 2400MHz is perfect.
- Another point people forget is the speed of your hard drive. Hard drives will bottleneck your renders, and will make scrubbing along your timeline a nightmare with larger edits. An SSD will drastically improve this. You don't need an NVMe drive, SATA is good enough (Linus did a video on this where people couldn't tell the difference between the two in video editing or gaming). Size of SSD depends on the size of your projects - you want it to be big enough so that the entire project folder of the edit you're currently working on, can fit on it. So check how big your projects are and make sure the biggest single project will fit. (Of course you don't need SSDs to store your old projects on, just the one you are currently working on).
- With the advent of GPU acceleration, the CPU has taken a backseat in importance - EXCEPT if you can't render in H264 or HEVC for some reason, then you're back to CPU rendering only. Either way the more threads the better. Premiere likes Intel more than AMD (check benchmarks) so core-for-core Intel CPUs will beat AMD cores. AMD wins when it has more threads. Compare Premiere export benchmarks, but an older 16-thread second-gen Ryzen 7 may actually be a good bet.

Sorry for the rant, and my advice will cost you way more than 5k (sorry!). But crazy idea - maybe upgrade to a 1TB SSD first, as you can carry that over to your new system. Do that, and make sure you're using GPU acceleration, and your renders will probably be faster already. Then you can save up for the CPU/Mobo/RAM upgrade because honestly unless you're getting 32GB of RAM, I think your performance won't be very different.

Please feel free to PM me if you struggle to get GPU acceleration going! It can be finnicky but it will blow your mind when you see it!
 
Last edited:
I think people have missed this. I've spent some time working Premiere Pro video editing rigs, and here are my takeaways.

- Premiere has recently allowed hardware (GPU) encoding when rendering H264 and HEVC. This MASSIVELY speeds up video rendering times - think 2 minutes instead of 20 minutes, depending on workload. More details: Adobe flips on GPU-accelerated encoding for Premiere Pro, and wow it's fast
- So suddenly GPU does matter for rendering, where in the past it was not very important for Premiere.
- That said your 1080Ti is a BEAST for rendering and probably won't need to be upgraded for ages. I know the benchmarks tell a different story, but I compared renders (mixed 1080p footage, animations, etc.) on a 1080 non-Ti vs a 2070 SUPER. Based on benchmarks the 2070 should have creamed the 1080 but the difference was absolutely minimal - 2-3 seconds faster on the 1080 actually.
- Plus the 1080Ti has 11GB of VRAM which is more than most cards. This should help make scrubbing along your timeline faster. I would NOT recommend ever getting a card with less VRAM than this because that would likely be a downgrade for you. So keep the 1080Ti until cards with bigger VRAM become affordable.

With that out of the way, some more advice:
- Premiere will happily use all the RAM you give it, but how much is needed depends on the edit - specifically how many and how large your source files are. If you have tons of source videos then you can easily hit 40GB + of RAM usage even at 1080P. So I would recommend at least 32GB (especially since you're coming from 24GB), but if you do do really big renders, then more is better. Note here that RAM speed should make very little difference so DDR4 2400MHz is perfect.
- Another point people forget is the speed of your hard drive. Hard drives will bottleneck your renders, and will make scrubbing along your timeline a nightmare with larger edits. An SSD will drastically improve this. You don't need an NVMe drive, SATA is good enough (Linus did a video on this where people couldn't tell the difference between the two in video editing or gaming). Size of SSD depends on the size of your projects - you want it to be big enough so that the eintire project folder of the edit you're currently working on, can fit on it. So check how big your projects are and make sure the biggest single project will fit. (Of course you don't need SSDs to store your old projects on, just the one you are currently working on).
- With the advent of GPU acceleration, the CPU has taken a backseat in importance - EXCEPT if you can't render in H264 or HVEC for some reason, then you're back to CPU rendering only. Either way the more threads the better. Premiere likes Intel more than AMD (check benchmarks) so core-for-core Intel CPUs will beat AMD cores. AMD wins when it has more threads. Compare Premiere export benchmarks, but an older 16-thread second-gen Ryzen 7 may actually be a good bet.

Sorry for the rant, and my advice will cost you way more than 5k (sorry!). But crazy idea - maybe upgrade to a 1TB SSD first, as you can carry that over to your new system. Do that, and make sure you're using GPU acceleration, and your renders will probably be faster already. Then you can save up for the CPU/Mobo/RAM upgrade because honestly unless you're getting 32GB of RAM, I think your performance won't be very different.

Please feel free to PM me if you struggle to get GPU acceleration going! It can be finnicky but it will blow your mind when you see it!

Not quite 100% on the Intel favoured..


pic_disp.php
 
Not quite 100% on the Intel favoured..


pic_disp.php
We're not disagreeing. Note I said core-for-core Intel beats AMD. E.g. 10-core 10900K beats 12-core 3900X. But when AMD has more cores, it beats Intel.

Plus the bottom of your chart already blows OP's entire budget before RAM or Mobo.

And my suggestion was to find a high-core-count Ryzen even if it's a bit older. I think this advice still stands. A 2700X will probably cost the same as a 3600X but I think the 2700X will win on performance.

And again unless he's buying 32GB RAM, I still think an SSD + enabling GPU acceleration will make a bigger difference to his performance in Premiere than a new CPU.
 
Enter DaVinci and Linux. (I totally stand corrected on this but I'm pretty sure DaVinci makes better use of hardware and performs better on Linux. Only done brief insights into this though.
 
I think people have missed this. I've spent some time working Premiere Pro video editing rigs, and here are my takeaways.

- Premiere has recently allowed hardware (GPU) encoding when rendering H264 and HEVC. This MASSIVELY speeds up video rendering times - think 2 minutes instead of 20 minutes, depending on workload. More details: Adobe flips on GPU-accelerated encoding for Premiere Pro, and wow it's fast
- So suddenly GPU does matter for rendering, where in the past it was not very important for Premiere.
- That said your 1080Ti is a BEAST for rendering and probably won't need to be upgraded for ages. I know the benchmarks tell a different story, but I compared renders (mixed 1080p footage, animations, etc.) on a 1080 non-Ti vs a 2070 SUPER. Based on benchmarks the 2070 should have creamed the 1080 but the difference was absolutely minimal - 2-3 seconds faster on the 1080 actually.
- Plus the 1080Ti has 11GB of VRAM which is more than most cards. This should help make scrubbing along your timeline faster. I would NOT recommend ever getting a card with less VRAM than this because that would likely be a downgrade for you. So keep the 1080Ti until cards with bigger VRAM become affordable.

With that out of the way, some more advice:
- Premiere will happily use all the RAM you give it, but how much is needed depends on the edit - specifically how many and how large your source files are. If you have tons of source videos then you can easily hit 40GB + of RAM usage even at 1080P. So I would recommend at least 32GB (especially since you're coming from 24GB), but if you do do really big renders, then more is better. Note here that RAM speed should make very little difference so DDR4 2400MHz is perfect.
- Another point people forget is the speed of your hard drive. Hard drives will bottleneck your renders, and will make scrubbing along your timeline a nightmare with larger edits. An SSD will drastically improve this. You don't need an NVMe drive, SATA is good enough (Linus did a video on this where people couldn't tell the difference between the two in video editing or gaming). Size of SSD depends on the size of your projects - you want it to be big enough so that the entire project folder of the edit you're currently working on, can fit on it. So check how big your projects are and make sure the biggest single project will fit. (Of course you don't need SSDs to store your old projects on, just the one you are currently working on).
- With the advent of GPU acceleration, the CPU has taken a backseat in importance - EXCEPT if you can't render in H264 or HEVC for some reason, then you're back to CPU rendering only. Either way the more threads the better. Premiere likes Intel more than AMD (check benchmarks) so core-for-core Intel CPUs will beat AMD cores. AMD wins when it has more threads. Compare Premiere export benchmarks, but an older 16-thread second-gen Ryzen 7 may actually be a good bet.

Sorry for the rant, and my advice will cost you way more than 5k (sorry!). But crazy idea - maybe upgrade to a 1TB SSD first, as you can carry that over to your new system. Do that, and make sure you're using GPU acceleration, and your renders will probably be faster already. Then you can save up for the CPU/Mobo/RAM upgrade because honestly unless you're getting 32GB of RAM, I think your performance won't be very different.

Please feel free to PM me if you struggle to get GPU acceleration going! It can be finnicky but it will blow your mind when you see it!

Yoh that's a ton of great info [emoji120] much appreciated.
My GPU barely hits 3% when I reinder 1080 h264... So I wonder if it's setup correctly.

So here us a thought... But it could be a silly one... My current MOBO apparently has a limit of 24gigs ram. Perhaps I could find a better DDR3 mobo that supports more ram. Then just up grade ram and mobo?

I do currently have an SSD and keep my current projects on it. And that has helped alot.


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Last edited:
Yoh that's a ton of great info [emoji120] much appreciated.
My GPU barely hits 3% when I reinder 1080 h264... So I wonder if it's setup correctly.

So here us a thought... But it could be a silly one... My current MOBO apparently has a limit of 24gigs ram. Perhaps I could find a better DDR3 mobo that supports more ram. Then just up grade ram and mobo?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So, firstly you need the latest version of Premiere (I think 14.2 at least) and latest Nvidia drivers. Then when you select Export, make sure you select H264 and single-pass CBR or single-pass VBR. There should be a dropdown to choose between software acceleration and hardware acceleration - hardware = GPU.

If it doesn't work, try uninstalling and reinstalling GPU drivers, that worked for me.

The only thing I am not sure about is whether it supports 3rd gen processors... But it should work as it's based more on the GPU than the CPU.

Regarding getting a new DDR3 mobo, you can try, but I think your money and energy will be better spent on an SSD and then saving up for a full new CPU/Mobo/RAM kit. Finding that much DDR3 RAM and a mobo compatible with your CPU might be a challenge.

EDIT: more details: https://community.adobe.com/t5/prem...ccelerated-encode-for-h264-hevc/td-p/11018167

EDIT 2: Saw you already have an SSD, good job. Ok so next step I think is, unfortunately, the CPU/Mobo/RAM combo. 5K is a bit tight. I think maybe save up a bit more and try get a 2700X, B450 mobo, and 32GB of RAM. That will be the major step for you I think.
 
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Enter DaVinci and Linux. (I totally stand corrected on this but I'm pretty sure DaVinci makes better use of hardware and performs better on Linux. Only done brief insights into this though.
Excellent point, and the free version of it is really good. All you really lose is layers on the timeline which is fine for smaller projects, plus a few other features. When you install you can even choose to have your timeline view look like Premiere's to smooth the transition. Resolve uses the GPU by default so I think the hardware upgrade advice is probably the same between Premiere and Resolve.
 
True, unless you are working on large projects with multiple collaborators, DaVinci is a great option, coupled with AMD Linux performance improving drastically it is a compelling option.

Biggest setback for the free DaVinci I see is engine performance limitation and collaboration loss.
 
@1armbandit I just had another idea. You can get a Ryzen 3 3300X. They're not available yet but it looks like they'll cost around the R 3k range. There are a number of okes who will be re-selling them here on Carb so check with them (@Senshi are you getting these in?).

Then you can get a B550 mobo for, looks like, just over 2k. Also consider a B450 - if you get an MSI B450 with MAX in the name it is guaranteed to support the next generation of Ryzen. There are a few of these on Carb so look around.

Then you can get 32GB of DDR4 RAM for around R 2 500. New or second hand, doesn't matter. Maybe consider getting 2 x 16GB sticks so you can upgrade to 64GB in future (just make sure you get the EXACT same model number with the second 32GB kit else you'll have issues).

The pros of this path:
- It's affordable - with your R 5k plus the sale price of your current kit, you should be able to squeeze it into your budget.
- The 3300X performs around the same as a 7700K. So not a powerhouse by modern standards, but it will easily beat your 3370.
- With the B550/B450 MAX motherboard you can easily upgrade to a higher core count 3rd or 4th gen Ryzen in future.
- Waiting for the 3300X to be released gives you a bit of time to save up and to line up a buyer for your old kit.
 
@1armbandit I just had another idea. You can get a Ryzen 3 3300X. They're not available yet but it looks like they'll cost around the R 3k range. There are a number of okes who will be re-selling them here on Carb so check with them (@Senshi are you getting these in?).

Then you can get a B550 mobo for, looks like, just over 2k. Also consider a B450 - if you get an MSI B450 with MAX in the name it is guaranteed to support the next generation of Ryzen. There are a few of these on Carb so look around.

Then you can get 32GB of DDR4 RAM for around R 2 500. New or second hand, doesn't matter. Maybe consider getting 2 x 16GB sticks so you can upgrade to 64GB in future (just make sure you get the EXACT same model number with the second 32GB kit else you'll have issues).

The pros of this path:
- It's affordable - with your R 5k plus the sale price of your current kit, you should be able to squeeze it into your budget.
- The 3300X performs around the same as a 7700K. So not a powerhouse by modern standards, but it will easily beat your 3370.
- With the B550/B450 MAX motherboard you can easily upgrade to a higher core count 3rd or 4th gen Ryzen in future.
- Waiting for the 3300X to be released gives you a bit of time to save up and to line up a buyer for your old kit.
awesome thanks for the advice, seems the 3300x only has 4 cores ?
definitely want to try and get 8 cores as premiere seems to need this to run better.

have never built a PC. But to my knowledge whats mentioned above are the main components. But i would still need a power supply a case and some cooling i assume ? This would probably all add up too ...

will keep an eye on classifieds.
is there a chance that the power-supply and case of my current old setup work with a modern mobo ?
 
awesome thanks for the advice, seems the 3300x only has 4 cores ?
definitely want to try and get 8 cores as premiere seems to need this to run better.

have never built a PC. But to my knowledge whats mentioned above are the main components. But i would still need a power supply a case and some cooling i assume ? This would probably all add up too ...

will keep an eye on classifieds.
is there a chance that the power-supply and case of my current old setup work with a modern mobo ?
The 3300X has 4 cores but each core runs 2 threads, so 8 threads. This is the same as the 7700K. If you want 8 cores, you'll need a 9700K or up, or a Ryzen 7 1700X or up. The 1700X is also not a bad option and you can use it in a B450 MAX mobo. It will actually probably outperform the 3300X and second hand it may be cheaper. So maybe that can be another option - 1700X, B450 Tomahawk MAX, 32GB RAM. You can still upgrade your CPU in future.

The 1700X comes with a cooler, so make sure if you're getting it second hand that the cooler is included. Else you'll have to buy a new one.

If you can get a 2700X that will be even better, and all the above advice applies, although it will be a bit more expensive.

I think any case and power supply that is running your current rig, will run your new rig just fine. What power supply do you have? It should be written on the side of the power supply. You may need to open up your case to see it.
 
MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX
Ordered ....
now to find a 2700x.

Is a single 16gb best way to start if I plan on going up to 64 one day?


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MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX
Ordered ....
now to find a 2700x.

Is a single 16gb best way to start if I plan on going up to 64 one day?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tricky one because Ryzen thrives in dual channel, 2 options.

1. Get 2 x 8Gb and either sell or trade at a later stage for 2x 16gb
2. fork out now and get 2 x 16Gb
 
MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX
Ordered ....
Champion! Well done.
now to find a 2700x.

Is a single 16gb best way to start if I plan on going up to 64 one day?


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Hmm. Good question. I know for gaming, having 2 sticks in dual channel is better as the RAM runs faster. Not sure if it makes any difference when editing. My gut says, not so much.

But note you run the risk of compatibility issues when you mix and match kits. You need to make sure you find the exact same model number each time, and even then it could be finicky. So general wisdom is to always buy a kit as a whole unit.

Then again the risk here probably isn't very high, so if 1 x 16GB is all you can afford right now, it should be fine.
 
You all have been very helpful so far I would appreciate further advice if I may. [emoji120]
So far I have:
- msi b450 tomahawk
- Ryzen 7 2700x with stock cooler
- corsair vengeance lpx 16gb x 2

So will start to assemble everything soon..
But in contemplating assembly iv realized I need thermal paste as the cpu and cooler were purchased used.

So 2 questions.
Is the cheep stuff from matrix OK? Deep Cool or simmilar.
How much will I need?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
You all have been very helpful so far I would appreciate further advice if I may. [emoji120]
So far I have:
- msi b450 tomahawk
- Ryzen 7 2700x with stock cooler
- corsair vengeance lpx 16gb x 2

So will start to assemble everything soon..
But in contemplating assembly iv realized I need thermal paste as the cpu and cooler were purchased used.

So 2 questions.
Is the cheep stuff from matrix OK? Deep Cool or simmilar.
How much will I need?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No, get Phanteks diamond compound from Wootware, really great paste that is inexpensive. Only a Pea sized dot needed, or a X, there's a number of application patterns to look up online to show how it spreads under pressure. Just please don't go to Matrix
 
You all have been very helpful so far I would appreciate further advice if I may. [emoji120]
So far I have:
- msi b450 tomahawk
- Ryzen 7 2700x with stock cooler
- corsair vengeance lpx 16gb x 2

So will start to assemble everything soon..
But in contemplating assembly iv realized I need thermal paste as the cpu and cooler were purchased used.

So 2 questions.
Is the cheep stuff from matrix OK? Deep Cool or simmilar.
How much will I need?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I stay around the corner from you buddy, happy to help you install the cpu and bring some of my Thermal Grizzly with if you are okay with it!
 
You all have been very helpful so far I would appreciate further advice if I may. [emoji120]
So far I have:
- msi b450 tomahawk
- Ryzen 7 2700x with stock cooler
- corsair vengeance lpx 16gb x 2

So will start to assemble everything soon..
But in contemplating assembly iv realized I need thermal paste as the cpu and cooler were purchased used.

So 2 questions.
Is the cheep stuff from matrix OK? Deep Cool or simmilar.
How much will I need?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Solid build there my dude. Well done!

The stuff from Matrix is definitely OK. But just OK. If you want a touch more than OK hit up @Thermal Grizzly ZA, they will help you make the best choice when it comes to paste, and it's probably not hugely more expensive than Matrix's, I think.

In terms of how much, you just need a pea-sized amount each time you apply. Generally speaking the smallest tubes (1g) is enough for a handful of applications.

EDIT: haha two replies while I was typing mine. Carb at its finest. @Senshi good on you mate that is a really nice offer!
 
Solid build there my dude. Well done!

The stuff from Matrix is definitely OK. But just OK. If you want a touch more than OK hit up @Thermal Grizzly ZA, they will help you make the best choice when it comes to paste, and it's probably not hugely more expensive than Matrix's, I think.

In terms of how much, you just need a pea-sized amount each time you apply. Generally speaking the smallest tubes (1g) is enough for a handful of applications.

EDIT: haha two replies while I was typing mine. Carb at its finest. @Senshi good on you mate that is a really nice offer!

Guess who he got the 2700X from ;)
 

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