UPS or Inverter for study (desktop, laptop, router only)

[Jadax]

Hey guys, I'm looking to get a backup power supply source only for my study - I currently connect my desktop, laptop and router into a multiplug which goes into the mains. I need something (UPS or trolley inverter?) that will get me through this Stage 6 loadshedding.

I don't really trust Eskom and I'd rather start looking now than buy something overpriced in a bind.

So basically looking to connect desktop, laptop, router and maybe my phone into this device. Any recommendations?

 

[Kreepy Crawly]

There’s some specials on EcoFlow units those should do the trick and can be easily moved around.

 

[matrixkid]

Agree with @Kreepy Crawly Eco Flow inverters work very well. Currently have one for work and is more then sufficient.

 

[WEST]

Agree with @Kreepy Crawly Eco Flow inverters work very well. Currently have one for work and is more then sufficient.

which ecoflow are you using?

 

[matrixkid]

which ecoflow are you using?

Eco Flow River Pro

 

[ForestGump]

You can get the EcoFlow River Pro (600W, 720Wh), then you can buy the expansion battery to add another 720Wh.
One thing to keep in mind:
These charge very fast because they have lithium-ion (NOT LiFePO4) batteries, same as whats used in EV cars. However, they have less lifetime cycles. (~250 lead acid, ~800 lithium-ion, ~3000 LiFePO4).
These are higher quality than similar systems and you pay for that.
Just know that if you run an inverter near its rated output (600W) its efficiency is generally reduced. Running it around this point will only last about 1.1hours if you 100% discharge it.


EDIT: you'd probably get more bang for buck with a UPS trolley and some LiFePO4 batteries but fuck you finding anything in stock.

EDIT: rather get one of those cheap Gizzu UPS things specifically for the router and the ecoflow for the PCs. If you plug the router into an extension cord from the EcoFlow unit you are essentially doing DC -> AC -> DC which is wasted efficiency.

 

[Phoenix Energy]

Hey bud. I have inverter trollies available for R10500 incl shipping

2 x 100ah AGM batteries
1 x 24V 1600W inverter
1 x battery cabinet

 

[AinsleyHarriott]

2 x 100ah AGM batteries

How many cycles are these rated for?

 

[Confucius]

they have lithium-ion (NOT LiFePO4) batteries, same as whats used in EV cars

Whaaaaaat. Where do you get that from? Both Tesla and VW/Audi use different lithium chemistries and it’s not lithium ion. Tesla even have some models that use LFP.

 

[ForestGump]

Whaaaaaat. Where do you get that from? Both Tesla and VW/Audi use different lithium chemistries and it’s not lithium ion. Tesla even have some models that use LFP.

bruuuhhhhhhhhhhhh
every tesla was basically built on lithium-ion batteries...first 18650s then 2170 and 4680. It's all the same shit just different shapes. LFPs came much later
And I said EVs, of which there are MANY, not just Tesla and VW.

Why everyone wanna fight me I'm just tryna help this guy have a proper wank during loadshedding

 

[Confucius]

bruuuhhhhhhhhhhhh
every tesla up until like 2022 basically built on lithium-ion batteries...first 18650s then 2170 and 4680. It's all the same shit just different shapes.
And I said EVs, of which there are MANY, not just Tesla and VW.

Why everyone wanna fight me I'm just tryna help this guy have a proper wank during loadshedding

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat.

You do know that 18650, 2170 etc refer to the size of the cells, right. Not chemistry. You can get an 18650 that is lithium ion, LFP, NCA and some others. It’s not the same shit in different sizes.

Which EV uses lithium Ion.

You also get lots of second life batteries that come from EV. I haven’t seen any lithium ion.

Ima tryna nota maka mora peepill fite wid you cos you giva ronga info.

I need to stop writing like Meg and you.

 

[ForestGump]

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat.

You do know that 18650, 2170 etc refer to the size of the cells, right. Not chemistry. You can get an 18650 that is lithium ion, LFP, NCA and some others. It’s not the same shit in different sizes.

Which EV uses lithium Ion.

You also get lots of second life batteries that come from EV. I haven’t seen any lithium ion.

Ima tryna nota maka mora peepill fite wid you cos you giva ronga info.

I need to stop writing like Meg and you.

You've added literally nothing to answer OPs question other than nitpick about some car kak no one cares about

EcoFlow uses 18650 li-ion batteries, you literally could not pay me enough to debate EVs with you

 

[Confucius]

Hey guys, I'm looking to get a backup power supply source only for my study - I currently connect my desktop, laptop and router into a multiplug which goes into the mains. I need something (UPS or trolley inverter?) that will get me through this Stage 6 loadshedding.

I don't really trust Eskom and I'd rather start looking now than buy something overpriced in a bind.

So basically looking to connect desktop, laptop, router and maybe my phone into this device. Any recommendations?

The eco flow seems more designed for portability and definitely isn’t the best bang for buck. The 720wh is about 13k.

How much of power does your desktop and laptop use? Stage 6 means it needs to last 4.5 hours. 720wh over 4.5 hours means you can use about 160w absolute max over the period which is much lower than a typical desktop + laptop + router + losses.

A trolley with 2x100ah batteries is going to give you around 1200wh of energy if discharged 50%. That’s your 10k ballpark.

2 lithium drop in batteries will give around 1900wh of energy and probably cost about 20k with thr current crazy pricing.

You also need to consider that some of these inverters are noisy and you don’t really want them close to you when it’s loadshedding.

 

[Confucius]

You've added literally nothing to answer OPs question other than nitpick about some car kak no one cares about

EcoFlow uses 18650 li-ion batteries, you literally could not pay me enough to debate EVs with you

There. Now I can nitpick with your approval.

 

[Neko]

You can get the EcoFlow River Pro (600W, 720Wh), then you can buy the expansion battery to add another 720Wh.
One thing to keep in mind:
These charge very fast because they have lithium-ion (NOT LiFePO4) batteries, same as whats used in EV cars. However, they have less lifetime cycles. (~250 lead acid, ~800 lithium-ion, ~3000 LiFePO4).
These are higher quality than similar systems and you pay for that.
Just know that if you run an inverter near its rated output (600W) its efficiency is generally reduced. Running it around this point will only last about 1.1hours if you 100% discharge it.


EDIT: you'd probably get more bang for buck with a UPS trolley and some LiFePO4 batteries but fuck you finding anything in stock.

EDIT: rather get one of those cheap Gizzu UPS things specifically for the router and the ecoflow for the PCs. If you plug the router into an extension cord from the EcoFlow unit you are essentially doing DC -> AC -> DC which is wasted efficiency.

I use a River Pro,

Running my router directly off the 12V DC jack - It can run it by itself for days (Only 4W!) I had to test this out when the substation caught fire. What is nice is that you can pick it up take it to the office to charge and back home you get to use a laptop and router for hours.
Adding my PC with monitor gives me around 5:30 Hours. (Normal desktop use - not gaming)

I usually run the TV from it as well, however during the 4 hours of stage 6 I need be be a bit conservative with it, opting either for PC or TV, not both.
As for the 600W? Bah! It can push 1200W! But as you said that really puts a dent in the batteries fast! My housekeeper decided to try and iron with it... It just went Nope! and shutdown, so yes the overcurrent feature does work.

I really want to get some solar panels for it, for the days we don't have power here.

If you guys are interested I can give you some real world figures on how much power certain devices use. What is nice is that it is rated in Watt Hours, (as opposed to Ah or MAh) so figuring out how long devices run is quite easy.

 

[P1000]

You can get an 18650 that is lithium ion, LFP, NCA and some others. It’s not the same shit in different sizes.

FYI, LiFePO₄ and NCA, and NMC and more are all lithium ion...

 

[Keenen]

PPS750, Thank me later. Rentech PPS750 Portable Power Station - 500W / 786Wh

Runs my 55” Samsung TV, Denon receiver, few lights, CCTV and Router. 3hours 45min was the best it could do. I got mine on special for 7500 iirc.

 

[Phoenix Energy]

How many cycles are these rated for?

Around 300 cycles

 

[ForestGump]

Around 300 cycles

Since this is not a for-sale thread and purchasing advice

My opinion is that buying any lead-acid /gel batteries now would be a massive mistake, 300 cycles is nothing when you consider stage 4-6 or even 8 that can come in 2023.

 

[ForestGump]

PPS750, Thank me later. Rentech PPS750 Portable Power Station - 500W / 786Wh

Runs my 55” Samsung TV, Denon receiver, few lights, CCTV and Router. 3hours 45min was the best it could do. I got mine on special for 7500 iirc.

This is quite a cool cheaper alternative to the EcoFlow.

500W is a bit low in my opinion - (PC ~ 200W [medium load, no big GPU], laptop ~ 80W, external monitor ~ 75W, router ~ 10W*2) someone once told me your efficiency drops off quite heavily after 50% inverter load...Always connect direct to DC where possible

It charges quite slow when you start hitting stage 4 -6 loadshedding

• AC wall charging in 7-10 hours

this is not really designed to be a UPS
If the unit remains connected and charging to AC indefinitely you might run the risk of overcharging the the battery. If there is no load-shedding or an expected power outage it is advisable to remove the unit from charge once the light goes green on the AC charger pack.

The EcoFlow definitely has AC-pass through for when its 100% charged so you can just leave it plugged in.

Both this and the ecoflow mention that their ATS is not really rated for UPS although I have anecdotal evidence that the EcoFlow can do 10ms which is good enough for a PC

 

[ForestGump]

I use a River Pro,

Running my router directly off the 12V DC jack - It can run it by itself for days (Only 4W!) I had to test this out when the substation caught fire. What is nice is that you can pick it up take it to the office to charge and back home you get to use a laptop and router for hours.
Adding my PC with monitor gives me around 5:30 Hours. (Normal desktop use - not gaming)

I usually run the TV from it as well, however during the 4 hours of stage 6 I need be be a bit conservative with it, opting either for PC or TV, not both.
As for the 600W? Bah! It can push 1200W! But as you said that really puts a dent in the batteries fast! My housekeeper decided to try and iron with it... It just went Nope! and shutdown, so yes the overcurrent feature does work.

I really want to get some solar panels for it, for the days we don't have power here.

If you guys are interested I can give you some real world figures on how much power certain devices use. What is nice is that it is rated in Watt Hours, (as opposed to Ah or MAh) so figuring out how long devices run is quite easy.

Yeah the EcoFlow is rated for 600W continuous output and surge 1200W, you definitely should not run it >600W for extended periods of time.

For me the biggest advantage of the EcoFlow is the quality, fast charging, expansion battery option

 

[eyesuc]

Since this is not a for-sale thread and purchasing advice

My opinion is that buying any lead-acid /gel batteries now would be a massive mistake, 300 cycles is nothing when you consider stage 4-6 or even 8 that can come in 2023.

Also just my opinion, but I agree fully.

Just checked on my system, I have had 122 loadshedding events since September 2022 till now (mid December). Less than 4 months and this is in CPT, so it would be worse anywhere else.

So if you only have 500 load shedding slots in a year, how many times would those AGM's cycle? My guess would be the batteries would be struggling after 12-18 months.

 

[Phoenix Energy]

Since this is not a for-sale thread and purchasing advice

My opinion is that buying any lead-acid /gel batteries now would be a massive mistake, 300 cycles is nothing when you consider stage 4-6 or even 8 that can come in 2023.

Yep 100% agree. But if you are in a pinch and need something affordable, nothing beats lead acid batteries.

Having a full system for the price of just a little more than 1 lithium battery is great.

If you just need need your TV, decoder and maybe a laptop connected to a lead acid system, the batteries will last you 3-4 years.

once you start getting closer to 50% DoD then the batteries will die in +-1 year.

If you have a load of 800+ watts then you definetly should be looking at a good inverter and lithium batteries

 

[Confucius]

The eco flow is rated for 800 cycles if you use more than 80% of the capacity. Still pretty low in my opinion. Depending on use and loadshedding, that could be between a year or 2 or use.

 

[Jadax]

I mean at this point with these costs, would it make more sense to maybe look for an inverter for the house?

If I'm pulling 4kW on average, and loadshedding is 4hrs at a time - what KVA and batteries should I be looking at?

 

[SoF_ZA]

I'm in the industry. I apologise if the following is a bit disjointed - its midnight.

1) If you really want a portable system - These guys seem to have some decent yet not too expensive solutions: Compact Power Stations Archives - Energy Independence - no I'm not affiliated in any way.

2) The above is based on more of a home system DIY'ed into a trolley. ( These systems should be integrated into your house but made into a trolley form factor).

3) I would say the above is far superior in terms of longevity, upgradability and general usefulness.

Quick Comparison:

Since it was mentioned above here is a River pro:

EcoFlow RIVER Pro Portable Power Station - R15k

Capacity: 0.72kWh * 0.8 (Depth of Discharge allowed = .576kWh (800 cycles lifetime)
Say you get 2 bouts of load shedding a day. You will be up to 730 cycles in one year.

Standard output = 600W
Basically if you draw a continuous 576 W it will only last an hour.

Nice neat box but overpriced for what it is. If you don't go camping every 5 minutes - get a more permanent solution.

In perspective: You do get an inverter built in but you are effectively paying R 30k incl. VAT. per kWh = Holy shit.

48V LiFePO4 batteries currently work out to about R6.5k per kWh incl. VAT.

Yes, you have to buy an inverter and other odds and ends.

By the time you are finished with all relevant hardware and installation you will probably work out to R15-20k per kWh backup power integrated into your house.



My opinion of the entire ecoflow, rentech etc. "power stations" is that they have their place, they are overpriced and at best a stopgap measure.

Even the cheapest system form the above link is better in every single way (besides for form factor). Build one yourself - I'm not responsible for death or injury if you don't know what you are doing.

If you have the money, bite the bullet, do a permanent 48V house solution. Expand it with solar later. Pays for itself after that - if done correctly. Load shedding is not going to go away anytime soon.

Drop me a DM if you want to chat further.

 

[SoF_ZA]

I mean at this point with these costs, would it make more sense to maybe look for an inverter for the house?

If I'm pulling 4kW on average, and loadshedding is 4hrs at a time - what KVA and batteries should I be looking at?

4kW = 4000w instant draw

If you draw 4kW for 4 hours you will need 16kWh battery capacity. Take into account 80% depth of discharge and +- 10% inefficiency (loss from going 220V AC to say 48V DC and back again) your required battery capacity is 20.8 kWh without safety.

If you are going to connect connect "desktop, laptop, router and maybe my phone into this device" I don't think you will exceed 1kW draw per hour.

That would mean that you only need 4kWh + 30% = 5.2kWh battery.

If you are going to do anything, measure your consumption first with something like this:

Digital Watt Meter (Kill A Watt) - Measure your electricity usage

It will help you design/get a system that will actually cover your need.

If you are going to do the whole house - talk to me in DM.

 

[lowracer]

PPS750, Thank me later. Rentech PPS750 Portable Power Station - 500W / 786Wh

Runs my 55” Samsung TV, Denon receiver, few lights, CCTV and Router. 3hours 45min was the best it could do. I got mine on special for 7500 iirc.

*If the unit remains connected and charging to AC indefinitely you might run the risk of overcharging the the battery. If there is no load-shedding or an expected power outage it is advisable to remove the unit from charge once the light goes green on the AC charger pack. If the unit is kept on charge indefinitely the unit will switch itself off.

 

[johnny_h]

If I could make some recommendations, it would be:
1. A whole home system would be a bit expensive but does help alot. You most likely won't need 4kw per hour, unless you're counting your geyser running all the time(and you can have your geyser run independently from the inverter) . At 4kw/hour, you need at least 16kw worth of batteries and that's expensive. Just doing a 5kw home solution would probably be like 40-50k. Just the batteries and inverter second hand would probably be around 30k, then you need safety fuse, a form of switchover(like a circuit breaker that you toggle between eskom, the inverter and nothing), cabling and getting a certificate of compliance so that if anything happens, insurance won't complain. If you have the money though, it's the best option especially if later on you can expand by adding solar panels.

2. If you don't go whole home inverter, perhaps look at individual systems for some of your devices. Like get one of those mini ups for your router, if your laptop supports usb-c charging then maybe get like a usb-c power bank that can charge laptops and your phone. Then you could get a power trolley or similar for your pc.you can get those lights that have a battery in them so that you still have lights too. You'll have peace of mind that your internet will stay up regardless of your pc draining the trolley, or even not switching the power trolley on if you're not using your pc(like if you're sleeping but still want internet on your phone).
Unless of course everything you want to have backup electricity on is together, and you don't mind the inverter noise, then one device might work out better.