Storage Suggestions

[jeff2001]

So I have a HP Microserver with 5 drives in it(max). I decided to move from WHS2011 to Server 2012 Essentials and when I did so I rushed into trying out storage spaces. No that its done I realise how infelxible it is and that I have 4 of my drives in a storage pool and if 1 goes so does all my data. The main reason I did it in the first place was to try and have one folder with everything in it shared so that I don't have to navigate to different shares for each drive, this is very important for me. Also realised that you cant easily swap out a drive with storage spaces even if you have the extra capacity. So now I am looking to see what options are available, note the micro server only does raid 0/1. What do you guys use, prefer sticking to windows but if ZFS is the best option then I can try that route. Don't mind a hardware solution as long as its not super expensive and that it fits into the HP or attaches externally. Main use is NAS for 2 XTreamers so as long as speed can do 2 1080p streams at a time it does not have to be super fast. Current hdds are 2 3Tb and 2 2Tb and a 1Tb but can always get more if it makes sense for some sort of raid.
Thanks

 

[calypso]

There is a drobo for sale on the forum that might meet your needs. You would just have to check on the transfer rate.

 

[Wasabee!]

Have you tried different OSes like FreeNAS? There are wikis on the microserver and compatible OSes. I find software RAID quite flexible though I only use RAID 1 on Intel controllers.

 

[ian_stagib]

There have already been some threads about this kind of topic, some of which I've helped with. Instead of me repeating it all see if you can locate them (should find it under my posts somewhere).

Couple of things though:

1) standardize on your drives, so stick with either 3tb or 2tb or 1tb. Don't mix capacities cause any raid config will default to lowest common denominator, in your case 1tb on each drive.

2) if you're gonna choose a software raid then windows isn't gonna do it for you. You're then stuck with a NIX option. I've said this before and I'll say it again, zfs is what you need. This is true in terms of features and reliability. There are quite a few OS's that support it so take your pick. In your case try Nas4free, it's a fork of freenas but I think they have better goals. There are other options of course if you want to get a bit more hands on with unix. If you aren't going to go over 24tb (I think) then perhaps take a look at the free version of nexentastor. I'd love to use it but the price is just crazy if you have to buy it. The free version is only limited by capacity.

 

[idol]

There have already been some threads about this kind of topic, some of which I've helped with. Instead of me repeating it all see if you can locate them (should find it under my posts somewhere).

Thank you [MENTION=766]ian_stagib[/MENTION] for always being so helpful and forthcoming with your knowledge and experience relating to all things storage : for the OP , allow me to point you in the direction - Home Server (& Network) Setups

 

[jeff2001]

Thanks everyone, especially [MENTION=225]idol[/MENTION] for the link , [MENTION=766]ian_stagib[/MENTION] your post in the link idol pasted is very interesting and I had never thought of using vm's. Might try it with Hyper-v though as I think the license is part of my MSDN subscription and the vmware license looks expensive. Any idea which version of server 2012 would be best for this as I have a license for every version.

 

[ian_stagib]

Thanks everyone, especially [MENTION=225]idol[/MENTION] for the link , [MENTION=766]ian_stagib[/MENTION] your post in the link idol pasted is very interesting and I had never thought of using vm's. Might try it with Hyper-v though as I think the license is part of my MSDN subscription and the vmware license looks expensive. Any idea which version of server 2012 would be best for this as I have a license for every version.

There is a free version of ESXi link You could also try Citrix Xenserver which is also free link and has no limitations. I dunno how Hyper-V works in conjunction with a Unix & zfs setup. The thing you need to be able to do is pass the drives directly to the guest operating system so that the Unix OS can control the drives properly. If you can do that in hyper-v then great. In ESXi you pass the storage controller to the guest OS and the guest OS sees the drives as if it was a bare metal install. If you're gonna go the more hardcore route then here are some helpful links:

OmniOS
OmniOS and Napp-it guide

Thanks [MENTION=225]idol[/MENTION], i was on my phone when I posted my previous message so I couldn't easily go find that link.

 

[jeff2001]

Awesome thanks [MENTION=766]ian_stagib[/MENTION] very useful info will look into it, no idea what hyper-v can do but just thought of it because of the licences.

 

[jeff2001]

Ok got myself setup with ESXi on an N54l , the one thing I see is that it does not support passthrough, is this going to be a problem for setting up zfs in an omni os vm ?
Also looking for an esata to sata connector locally if anyone knows where I can get one so I can fit an extra drive in.

 

[idol]

Ok got myself setup with ESXi on an N54l , the one thing I see is that it does not support passthrough, is this going to be a problem for setting up zfs in an omni os vm ?
Also looking for an esata to sata connector locally if anyone knows where I can get one so I can fit an extra drive in.

There's a way to get some fake passthrough going and it worked like a charm for me, geesh way back in 2011. "I have achieved some semblance of success on the Fake "direct passthrough"

 

[ian_stagib]

Ok got myself setup with ESXi on an N54l , the one thing I see is that it does not support passthrough, is this going to be a problem for setting up zfs in an omni os vm ?
Also looking for an esata to sata connector locally if anyone knows where I can get one so I can fit an extra drive in.

Ok, i'm not sure why you'd want to use ESXi on the microserver. Obviously our discussions on the other thread provide a tempting scenario but with the processing power available to you on the microserver I doubt you'd get very far with additional vm's anyway. Skip using vmware on that machine and go straight OmniOS / Freenas / Nas4free / nexenta (if your storage fits under their limit then go nexenta). It'll be less hassles for you as this machine will only be used for data storage anyway. If i'm missing that you're just going to be using this machine for storage then pls correct me. If you want to do more than just storage then i'll suggest you go a bit bigger.

 

[jeff2001]

Thanks again guys, so I am currently running server 2012 with sickbeard, sabnzb and printer shares. I assumed dual 2.2ghz would be enough for VMware, OmniOS, Windows2012 VM and possibly pfsense for fiddling. I was going to upgrade my ram from 6gigs I have now to 16, then also get another 3TB hdd, Put 3 by 3Tb and 2 by 2TB in a Raid-Z and when I get the cash swap out the 2 by 2TB and resilver. Definitely keen to get a bigger more suitable setup when I get some cash , I probably made the wrong decision going for an N54l on special to get extra processing power. I still have my old N40l(was going to sell it) so I can possibly keep it and split concerns of storage and other stuff. Might be over thinking things though as I'm loving the technical challenge of the whole thing, I'm a c# developer and spend most of my time in windows so all this other stuff is a bit of a fun change for me.

 

[ian_stagib]

Ok, then how about this. Set up omnios with napp-it, then learn how to set up "zones" which is another hyper visor and you can install another OS in there (something) like Linux where you can set up the sickbeard and so on. [MENTION=104]ara[/MENTION] would be a good guy to ask about zones. The processing power of that n54l might get u by in a pinch but the main thing holding you back is the lack of vt-d support of the processor which is why you can't pass through hardware to esxi. By installing the OS natively you get around it and let zfs work its magic. VMware has their own file system of course but I don't think it's a great file system and if it was underlying zfs then it would defeat the whole point.

On a side note, how about using something like a raspberry pi to install Linux and sickbeard and so on. It could be a really low power downloader which stores to your microserver.

 

[ara]

As [MENTION=766]ian_stagib[/MENTION] suggested you have a couple of ways to do it:
1. You install esxi with the pros and cons as highlighter
2. You install OmniOS as the base os with either zones or KVM virtualization (I have OmniOS with a Ubuntu KVM at this stage)
3. You can also do nas4free with Jails (I recently completed a nas4free image with 3 jails [deluge, sickbeard, lms])
4. Nexenta but not sure about either zone or KVM support (but I doubt it)

As everyone suggested you might have a bit of problems on the MicroServer processor wise but having 16GB of ram will go a long way in resolving most of the issues as in your usecase the VM's will not be used that often I would think. The other thing to consider is that in going the OmniOS/Nexenta route you might struggle with it running on a USB drive and if you do want to try it get a fast USB3 flash drive so that you are sure you can max out the USB2 ports on the MicroServer. The reason for that is both install the OS on ZFS file system as well and that normally does not work the best with USB flash drives. nas4free does not do it that way but then I'm not sure about the performance of nas4free (freeBSD 9) on the MicroServer's nic.

 

[jeff2001]

Ok so I landed up buying this SuperMicro SC743TQ-1200B-SQ server from Idol . My plan is to run esxi on it and hopefully Nas4free.
So now to the questions.
1. How easy would it be to move my drives with data intact from my nas4free in a ZFS config on my microserver to the new setup.
2. Has anybody managed to run Nas4Free with passthrough on esxi.
3. I tried esxi 5.5 and none of my storage is showing up, any ideas? ( Im busy downloading 5.0U1 as its on the compatibility list for the motherboard - Supermicro X9DAI Super Micro Computer, Inc. - Support | OS Compatibility Chart )
4. It has 8 hot swop bays , I would ideally like 2 raids. My current which is 5 Drives in ZFS for storage, and then another 5 Drives in ZFS for VM's and backup of more important data. What is the cheapest options to add Bays and more sata ports that will be compatible with Vmware. My esxi is on a flash drive, would probably also need a drive to run the Nas4free vm on. Thats 3 extra minimum. It has three 5 1/4 bays, one has a DVD rom in it but I am not opposed to removing it if need be.

Thanks for your time

 

[ian_stagib]

Ok so I landed up buying this SuperMicro SC743TQ-1200B-SQ server from Idol . My plan is to run esxi on it and hopefully Nas4free.
So now to the questions.
1. How easy would it be to move my drives with data intact from my nas4free in a ZFS config on my microserver to the new setup.
2. Has anybody managed to run Nas4Free with passthrough on esxi.
3. I tried esxi 5.5 and none of my storage is showing up, any ideas? ( Im busy downloading 5.0U1 as its on the compatibility list for the motherboard - Supermicro X9DAI Super Micro Computer, Inc. - Support | OS Compatibility Chart )
4. It has 8 hot swop bays , I would ideally like 2 raids. My current which is 5 Drives in ZFS for storage, and then another 5 Drives in ZFS for VM's and backup of more important data. What is the cheapest options to add Bays and more sata ports that will be compatible with Vmware. My esxi is on a flash drive, would probably also need a drive to run the Nas4free vm on. Thats 3 extra minimum. It has three 5 1/4 bays, one has a DVD rom in it but I am not opposed to removing it if need be.

Thanks for your time

1. When moving between any zfs pool supporting OS just export the pool in the one OS and then import it when in the new OS. Done. Just keep in mind the OS you're moving to needs to support the same version of ZFS or newer.
2. Nas4Free is a fork of Freenas. There shouldn't be any issue with esxi, as plenty of people do it.
3. How are you passing the drives through to the VM? Remember you need to either pass through a sata controller or you need to try the RDM workaround RDM mentioned. Also, double check your cpu and motherboard supports vt-d
4. Take a look into the 5.25" drive bay hdd converters. You get 3to5's (check icydock) and so on. Not sure what the cabling behind the 5.25" bays look like there for you. Also, if you have one raid-z2 pool you'll actually have better data protection than the z1 on two pools.

Now that you have that server, I think it's about time you get a sata expander card to make life easier. You'll be able to use the sas port on that motherboard nicely for 4 of the drives but get another card that has 2 sas ports on it.

 

[jeff2001]

Thanks so much [MENTION=766]ian_stagib[/MENTION] , really usefull info. Glad I can move the zfs pool.
Reason I was going to split into 2 pools was drive size, I have 5 by 3Tb and 5 by 2Tb so thought 2 pools would be easier.
Think I am just going to take my 3to5 out of my gaming pc as it only has 2 drives in anyway and pop that in the server now that I think about it.
Server has 2 Intel® Xeon® Processor E5-2603 and mobo supports it so good to go on the Vt-d )))
Any ideas on a suggestion for a 2 port sata expander card that works with esxi, been looking but keep finding the more expensive raid cards which I should not need with ZFS.

 

[ian_stagib]

Anything with an lsi chip in it is generally preferred for compatibility, but I'm pretty sure almost any controller should work. There's a sata card on the forums right now actually. A lian-li one. Just check what the new price is first. Also, I prefer the cards with mini-sas on them as it means less cabling but normally sata ports can work too.

Why not sell your 2tb drives and buy 3's? The upgrade will end up costing you about 1500 to 2k if you sell your 2tb's

Sent using direct mind to machine interface

 

[XYDER]

hi, if i could offer a suggestion?

i have implemented a storage solution for a client that is working out pretty well actually.

it's a Lian-Li ex503

basically it's a 5 bay enclosure with no limitations on drive size, that runs on USB3 or e-sata and you can raid it for 0,1,5,10,jabod.



also ESXI 5.1 and up supports passthrough on the free licence.

hope it helps

 

[ian_stagib]

hi, if i could offer a suggestion?

i have implemented a storage solution for a client that is working out pretty well actually.

it's a Lian-Li ex503

basically it's a 5 bay enclosure with no limitations on drive size, that runs on USB3 or e-sata and you can raid it for 0,1,5,10,jabod.



also ESXI 5.1 and up supports passthrough on the free licence.

hope it helps

But does that lian-li support passthrough of the drives? Cause jabod isn't passthrough and zfs works best when you pass the drives through

 

[idol]

Howzit Guys, does anyone know the best place to source 12 x SFF8087 Mini-Sas to Mini-Sas cables of at least 1 meter long.

 

[XYDER]

if you, using vshere just add the whole enclosure after it's raided, through to the guest VM.

it picks up as a regular hard drive.

just read your first post more thoroughly, unfortunately i have never tried having the disks as separate drives.

it's always been a single enclosure with raid 5, then once space runs out get another one and plug it into another USB3/e-sata port. limit is when the host server runs out of USB/e-sata ports.

 

[ian_stagib]

if you, using vshere just add the whole enclosure after it's raided, through to the guest VM.

it picks up as a regular hard drive.

just read your first post more thoroughly, unfortunately i have never tried having the disks as separate drives.

it's always been a single enclosure with raid 5, then once space runs out get another one and plug it into another USB3/e-sata port. limit is when the host server runs out of USB/e-sata ports.

It's not the best way to handle zfs, and if you read up on zfs you'll know why you want it. And when you pass through the whole enclosure to vmware are you creating a vmdisk out of the storage or are you passing the sata controller directly to the vm? Cause vmdisk is terribly inefficient.