Solar Power Setup + City Power Advice

[NightWatcher]

The just of this story is that I'm either oblivious to worldly expenses or something isn't right. I'm just trying to help my mother get by every month.

We moved houses and the original owner had installed this solar system himself. A year ago the gel batteries died and we installed new lithium batteries. The entire setup will be posted below.

The Issue:
We have both a borehole and solar setup however my Mums utility bill for electricity keeps falling within the range of R7000 - R8000

So from the setup its good to know the entire house runs on the solar except for the stoves ( 2 gas plates 4 induction, oven, microwave and pool pump and borehole pump )
even our geysers are solar.

so a weird thing started happening a few months ago. City power gives us an estimate of our bill usually R5.5k for lights every month, keep in mind its a a house with 3 people living of which during the week no one is home most of the day as we all work and I'm studying. So besides the maid cleaning there's no one using that much power everyday. During the nights we hardly use the lights and I'm usually sitting at my laptop in my room doing work with a side light while my mum watches tv. The pool runs for 2 hours everyday and besides my mum baking twice a month everything else is pretty standard in our household. We just don't seem to be using that much power for the price city power is charging us.

every 3 months city power sends a new bill saying that they underestimated the money we owe them and jack it up saying we owe them 4-5k. in December the bill showed that we were even using stage 3 power. Keep in mind we don't even use fans during summer and as i said the geysers are even solar.

when brought up with city power ( obviously they do nothing )
1. My mum went to their offices as we still have a digital meter but not a prepaid one. The guy told her its 3k to put a meter in and we have to be on the list. I know the list thing is true but is it true that they charge you 3k for the prepaid meter to be put in? i know the service fee every month for the meter is R800 so if i switch that means my mum will save that R800 or so every month?

2. Someone advised us that if we hire a private electrician to do it and buy our own meter city power will have an issue so is that true should i not go about it this way?

3. To address our issue of high power consumption they told us they can monitor our power by putting some meter but it will cost us 2k every month to rent the meter which will read how much power we using inside the house vs the rate on the outside box. That's dam ridiculous . So I'm currently thinking it will be cheaper to call an electrician to take a look but really what can they do, Perhaps anyone here would have a suggestion as to how i can more effectively monitor this and try and reduce our bill because the price and consumption doesn't correlate. Last year i 3D printed some months and our bill wasn't this high.

4. The solar issues now : the way our solar is set up is to run the entire house off the solar, when there isn't enough use the store battery power and then only then use utility. when i monitor the power majority of the time i.e. 90% its running us on solar power and the stored solar battery power at night. So when exactly are we using R7k worth of electricity?????
I've seen some WIFI modules to monitor your solar consumption using an app but does anyone have any idea how i can figure this out. i.e. monitor the consumption and how exactly we using all of the solar power finished to a point that my mums electricity bill is still so high. that means if i had no solar my mum would be spending upwards of 10K on electricity alone?

5. My last issue is everyone we called has spun a different story thus far. The guy who installed the battery informed my mum that the inverter is old and needs to be changed because it cant handle the batteries. is that true?
someone else then told us we need to add 5 more panels to run completely off the grid as we have very little panels, is that true?

i know this is a long rant and me seeking a lot of advice. if my mum could afford it id just hire someone but like i said, I'm studying and she's trying to keep the house running and every month when that electricity bill comes i can see her stressing so if anyone can try and give me some advice id gladly take it. I'm always not home when the installed the new batteries etc. so i tend to miss out of what they tell my mum.

i hope this is in the correct thread

https://imgur.com/a/NhS1LkO

Note we have 2 batteries not just the one

 

[th33machin3]

If your solar is feeding anything back through the city meter it will also be registered as consumption (used / billed units) cause the city meters are omnidirectional. I'd check up on that first. Check the inverter settings (no feedback / no selling), check the installed inverter CTs and lastly the existing wiring. Hope this helps and GL.

 

[SteveIndeed]

If your solar is feeding anything back through the city meter it will also be registered as consumption (used / billed units) cause the city meters are omnidirectional. I'd check up on that first. Check the inverter settings (no feedback / no selling), check the installed inverter CTs and lastly the existing wiring. Hope this helps and GL.

Agree with this post entirely. It sounds like the inverter hasn't been set up to stop it sending power back to the grid when the batteries are full. Even if you send power back to the grid, you get billed as though you are using that power from the grid.

 

[rinners]

Have you looked at kWh reading on the meter? Best to do that an take regular pictures. You can also turn off your main isolator in the house and see if the meter is still drawing from the grid.

I'm not familiar with Growatt, but I think it is a Hybrid inverter? Is it feeding solar back to the grid. The power meters can't tell direction flow so if power is going to your house from the grid or from your house to the grid your meter reading will go up.

 

[rinners]

Helps if I read the other comments I guess =/

 

[madness_inc]

You need to actually monitor the kWh reading from your meter.
As mentioned, it's likely you are feeding power back into the grid unwittingly and are being charged as if you are consuming that power.
It's also likely that your inverter setup is charging your batteries from the grid (based on what sounds like a dodgy/shitty installer)
Geysers chow power, so putting in a smart switch or a geyserwise can help, but again, you need to be aware of how much power you're consuming

 

[Confucius]

you can get a cheap ac clamp meter or find someone that has one. Then turn off all the plug / light circuit breakers and check if current is still flowing on the main city power feed.

If yes, then some knob installed the inverter incorrectly. I’m not familiar with Growatt but maiming of the claimed hybrids are not really bidirectional hybrids.

Another option is to install a power meter between the city power meter and your main switch.

how many panels and what power are they. The combiner box looks a bit strange. Looks like there’s 5 pairs of fuses, 2 double pole isolators and a 3 pole surge protector.

 

[Scrooloose]

It shocks me when I read about these sorts of scenarios. It's like most electricians and solar installers are really just out to make quick money instead of trying to make people's lives a little better.

From the info you've provided, there are 3 likely scenarios. One is that your billing is incorrect, and you should compare the meter readings with what the City Power bill states. The second is that the meter is faulty. I understand that City Power uses estimates, but those must have been based on some sporadic readings at different times. The third is that there might be a fault on a geyser where the thermostat doesn't switch the element off.

Installing a power meter in the DB on the supply side isn't expensive and it isn't a big task either. But it will be useful as a diagnostic tool only.

Where do you live? Perhaps we can then recommend a reputable electrical contractor to give you a hand.

 

[Killerwatt]

How sure are you that the house is running off solar most of the time and battety at night?
As far as I know you should have a Voltronic based unit that shouldnt be able to push back to grid. But can you confirm the model number of the inverter? Is there a wifi dongle connected to the monitor?

 

[Switch]

It shocks me when I read about these sorts of scenarios. It's like most electricians and solar installers are really just out to make quick money instead of trying to make people's lives a little better.

That's been the case since 2021, vast majority of these "solar installers" didn't exist before 2021.

 

[Qui_Illustrati]

That's not a hybrid inverter and not capable of feeding in. There's something seriously wrong with the reported usage and billing. If I were in your position I'd make it a priority to install a breaker type meter right after your mains to get a better understanding of usage. These meters are inexpensive. I'd also make it a priority to get prepaid sooner rather than later.

WOW - that's a shit ton of electricity usage and going on the description of your consumption habits - you are being robbed!

An example of a meter

Takealot

 

[ATB]

The just of this story is that I'm either oblivious to worldly expenses or something isn't right. I'm just trying to help my mother get by every month.

We moved houses and the original owner had installed this solar system himself. A year ago the gel batteries died and we installed new lithium batteries. The entire setup will be posted below.

The Issue:
We have both a borehole and solar setup however my Mums utility bill for electricity keeps falling within the range of R7000 - R8000

So from the setup its good to know the entire house runs on the solar except for the stoves ( 2 gas plates 4 induction, oven, microwave and pool pump and borehole pump )
even our geysers are solar.

so a weird thing started happening a few months ago. City power gives us an estimate of our bill usually R5.5k for lights every month, keep in mind its a a house with 3 people living of which during the week no one is home most of the day as we all work and I'm studying. So besides the maid cleaning there's no one using that much power everyday. During the nights we hardly use the lights and I'm usually sitting at my laptop in my room doing work with a side light while my mum watches tv. The pool runs for 2 hours everyday and besides my mum baking twice a month everything else is pretty standard in our household. We just don't seem to be using that much power for the price city power is charging us.

every 3 months city power sends a new bill saying that they underestimated the money we owe them and jack it up saying we owe them 4-5k. in December the bill showed that we were even using stage 3 power. Keep in mind we don't even use fans during summer and as i said the geysers are even solar.

when brought up with city power ( obviously they do nothing )
1. My mum went to their offices as we still have a digital meter but not a prepaid one. The guy told her its 3k to put a meter in and we have to be on the list. I know the list thing is true but is it true that they charge you 3k for the prepaid meter to be put in? i know the service fee every month for the meter is R800 so if i switch that means my mum will save that R800 or so every month?

2. Someone advised us that if we hire a private electrician to do it and buy our own meter city power will have an issue so is that true should i not go about it this way?

3. To address our issue of high power consumption they told us they can monitor our power by putting some meter but it will cost us 2k every month to rent the meter which will read how much power we using inside the house vs the rate on the outside box. That's dam ridiculous . So I'm currently thinking it will be cheaper to call an electrician to take a look but really what can they do, Perhaps anyone here would have a suggestion as to how i can more effectively monitor this and try and reduce our bill because the price and consumption doesn't correlate. Last year i 3D printed some months and our bill wasn't this high.

4. The solar issues now : the way our solar is set up is to run the entire house off the solar, when there isn't enough use the store battery power and then only then use utility. when i monitor the power majority of the time i.e. 90% its running us on solar power and the stored solar battery power at night. So when exactly are we using R7k worth of electricity?????
I've seen some WIFI modules to monitor your solar consumption using an app but does anyone have any idea how i can figure this out. i.e. monitor the consumption and how exactly we using all of the solar power finished to a point that my mums electricity bill is still so high. that means if i had no solar my mum would be spending upwards of 10K on electricity alone?

5. My last issue is everyone we called has spun a different story thus far. The guy who installed the battery informed my mum that the inverter is old and needs to be changed because it cant handle the batteries. is that true?
someone else then told us we need to add 5 more panels to run completely off the grid as we have very little panels, is that true?

i know this is a long rant and me seeking a lot of advice. if my mum could afford it id just hire someone but like i said, I'm studying and she's trying to keep the house running and every month when that electricity bill comes i can see her stressing so if anyone can try and give me some advice id gladly take it. I'm always not home when the installed the new batteries etc. so i tend to miss out of what they tell my mum.

i hope this is in the correct thread

https://imgur.com/a/NhS1LkO

Note we have 2 batteries not just the one

Hi, these inverters normally come with loggers(device to monitor system with). So does your mom maybe have the box for the inverter still?

I presume the meter you have is an analog one? The old spinning type.

There are two ways you can still be using so much electricity:
1. Your DB board is split and the inverter is only feeding a small amount of loads.
2. Your meter is faulty

Your inverter is compatible with those batteries.


Just my thoughts, could be wrong though.

 

[NightWatcher]

Id like to just take a minute to thank everyone for replying. I'm on a university break next weekend then i will take the time to read everyone's ideas and thank everyone. Will get this checked out this holiday.

 

[Saajid]

From the pics, I see 6 x solar panels only. Is that correct? If so, it isn't a hellova lot. Do you know what the size of the panels are, and which direction they are pointing? E.g. 450w and facing north. This is important. You might be having small panels facing the wrong direction / not getting enough sun, and contributing little to nothing to your electricity savings.

Besides the size and capability of the panels, if your inverter settings are not optimal (charge battery during the day, discharge at night), then you're wasting the money spent on the lithium batteries.

The original batteries were gel / lead acid. When switching to Lithium, you have to update the battery settings on the inverter from lead acid / gel to Lithium. This is basic stuff, probably the installer got it right, but double check. You also have to change the charge and discharge rates, the low battery + shutdown percentages, the battery capacity, and other things that are important settings. Especially when going from Lead Acid / Gel to Lithium. Your inverter might still be "seeing" the lead acid batteries with different capacities, and not even charging the batteries to full.

Your electricity bill is massive. Usually, water heating (geysers) account for 50-70% of most electricity bills. So if your geysers are properly solar, what on earth are you powering up for R7000-R8000 p/m? If we take into account your solar geysers, and factor in some savings from solar PV, your monthly grid usage should be closer to R1500 to R2000, closer to R800 on the optimistic side. I can't see it being much more than this. I'm thinking CoJ prepaid rates here. Apologies if I'm not taking into account post-paid customers with network charges and estimated readings and charges.

Before I got solar a year ago, my monthly bill was R3500-R4000 on CoJ Prepaid. And that included a regular geyser with a 4kw element, serving our family of 5, with 4 fridges/freezers, network cabinet constantly running, and a gas stove used for boiling kettle and most cooking, and only gas heaters in winter.

Your electricity usage is so ridiculously high in my mind, that you should attend to it urgently, drop everything else. Because if you can afford to pay this R7,000 to R8,000 p/m whilst being so LAX about it, you can afford to go fully off-grid, like literally 100%, by upgrading to a much bigger and better system (seeing that water heating & solar geysers are already accounted for).

 

[Adagio_Leopard]

If you're in the Gauteng area, I have an Efergy meter you can borrow?
It's just lying in my garage.
PM Me if you're keen.

 

[NightWatcher]

Have you looked at kWh reading on the meter? Best to do that an take regular pictures. You can also turn off your main isolator in the house and see if the meter is still drawing from the grid.

I'm not familiar with Growatt, but I think it is a Hybrid inverter? Is it feeding solar back to the grid. The power meters can't tell direction flow so if power is going to your house from the grid or from your house to the grid your meter reading will go up.

Helps if I read the other comments I guess =/

If your solar is feeding anything back through the city meter it will also be registered as consumption (used / billed units) cause the city meters are omnidirectional. I'd check up on that first. Check the inverter settings (no feedback / no selling), check the installed inverter CTs and lastly the existing wiring. Hope this helps and GL.

Agree with this post entirely. It sounds like the inverter hasn't been set up to stop it sending power back to the grid when the batteries are full. Even if you send power back to the grid, you get billed as though you are using that power from the grid.

Ive checked online and the instruction books. Nothing about feeding back is mentioned so I'm going to go off the assumption that its not capable and someone mentioned that the Growatt inverter is not Bi directional and cannot feed in

 

[NightWatcher]

You need to actually monitor the kWh reading from your meter.
As mentioned, it's likely you are feeding power back into the grid unwittingly and are being charged as if you are consuming that power.
It's also likely that your inverter setup is charging your batteries from the grid (based on what sounds like a dodgy/shitty installer)
Geysers chow power, so putting in a smart switch or a geyserwise can help, but again, you need to be aware of how much power you're consuming

you can get a cheap ac clamp meter or find someone that has one. Then turn off all the plug / light circuit breakers and check if current is still flowing on the main city power feed.

If yes, then some knob installed the inverter incorrectly. I’m not familiar with Growatt but maiming of the claimed hybrids are not really bidirectional hybrids.

Another option is to install a power meter between the city power meter and your main switch.

how many panels and what power are they. The combiner box looks a bit strange. Looks like there’s 5 pairs of fuses, 2 double pole isolators and a 3 pole surge protector.

It shocks me when I read about these sorts of scenarios. It's like most electricians and solar installers are really just out to make quick money instead of trying to make people's lives a little better.

From the info you've provided, there are 3 likely scenarios. One is that your billing is incorrect, and you should compare the meter readings with what the City Power bill states. The second is that the meter is faulty. I understand that City Power uses estimates, but those must have been based on some sporadic readings at different times. The third is that there might be a fault on a geyser where the thermostat doesn't switch the element off.

Installing a power meter in the DB on the supply side isn't expensive and it isn't a big task either. But it will be useful as a diagnostic tool only.

Where do you live? Perhaps we can then recommend a reputable electrical contractor to give you a hand.

So on the topic of geysers my geysers are always switched off at the mains so I'm 100% sure its not the geyser as we only put them on for an hour or two during winter because normally the solar power on the geysers suffices.


From that i think ill take the steps to monitor to now monitor the consumption from the meter outside. I'm going to find a way to install another meter on the DB board from all your guys recommendations now and ill look at the AC clamp thing to see if power is still flowing when everything is switched off.

 

[NightWatcher]

It shocks me when I read about these sorts of scenarios. It's like most electricians and solar installers are really just out to make quick money instead of trying to make people's lives a little better.

From the info you've provided, there are 3 likely scenarios. One is that your billing is incorrect, and you should compare the meter readings with what the City Power bill states. The second is that the meter is faulty. I understand that City Power uses estimates, but those must have been based on some sporadic readings at different times. The third is that there might be a fault on a geyser where the thermostat doesn't switch the element off.

Installing a power meter in the DB on the supply side isn't expensive and it isn't a big task either. But it will be useful as a diagnostic tool only.

Where do you live? Perhaps we can then recommend a reputable electrical contractor to give you a hand.

I stay in Horison Park so Roodepoort side. If you know any good electricians ill gladly take a number because I'm not sure who to trust these days.

Can i get the meter privately installed ?

you can get a cheap ac clamp meter or find someone that has one. Then turn off all the plug / light circuit breakers and check if current is still flowing on the main city power feed.

If yes, then some knob installed the inverter incorrectly. I’m not familiar with Growatt but maiming of the claimed hybrids are not really bidirectional hybrids.

Another option is to install a power meter between the city power meter and your main switch.

how many panels and what power are they. The combiner box looks a bit strange. Looks like there’s 5 pairs of fuses, 2 double pole isolators and a 3 pole surge protector.

As for the Solar panels there are Six which I've seen someone point out that those are not enough. The last electrician went on top and left this note which says.

Optimum current 8.96A
Max power 335V
Optimum Voltage 37.4V
Open circuit voltage 45.8V
Max system voltage 1000V

not sure which one is the power output. If that doesn't suffice ill go on top and check them myself but that's the information i currently have about the panels. Should I send you a better Picture of the combiner box ?

 

[NightWatcher]

How sure are you that the house is running off solar most of the time and battety at night?
As far as I know you should have a Voltronic based unit that shouldnt be able to push back to grid. But can you confirm the model number of the inverter? Is there a wifi dongle connected to the monitor?

The model number is SPF 5000TL HVM P
As for the other question the way the house is setup that when the batteries die, because i have a main switch board in the house that switches between solar power and Eskom then the lights go off. So for example some nights when theres load shedding 2 to 4am the house will switch off. Because the batteries are dead. And it wont come back on until i go to the garage and change the inverter to utility or switch the mains in the house back to Eskom. This and the fact that in the night the batteries will be over 50% and in the mornings if i have ever checked are usually a lot less hence the power is being used. So if the house isn't running off the solar there will be no power especially in summer i know its off the solar. In the night everyone sleeping early and I'm usually awake so even then we hardly using power. If the batteries are emptied there no lights in the house whether in load shedding or not so i know that there has been some occasions of the batteries being completely dead but its like maybe once a month or twice a month so we are using the solar and batteries then most of the time. The inverter is setup on Solar, Battery, Utility so

 

[NightWatcher]

How sure are you that the house is running off solar most of the time and battety at night?
As far as I know you should have a Voltronic based unit that shouldnt be able to push back to grid. But can you confirm the model number of the inverter? Is there a wifi dongle connected to the monitor?

There is a Wi-Fi dongle attachment but it has to be bought separately but indeed capable with this model

 

[NightWatcher]

That's not a hybrid inverter and not capable of feeding in. There's something seriously wrong with the reported usage and billing. If I were in your position I'd make it a priority to install a breaker type meter right after your mains to get a better understanding of usage. These meters are inexpensive. I'd also make it a priority to get prepaid sooner rather than later.

WOW - that's a shit ton of electricity usage and going on the description of your consumption habits - you are being robbed!

An example of a meter

Takealot

Thank you ill get going about installing the meter. the example helps a lot too. Can i get the prepaid meter installed privately or does it have to be done by city power?

 

[NightWatcher]

Hi, these inverters normally come with loggers(device to monitor system with). So does your mom maybe have the box for the inverter still?

I presume the meter you have is an analog one? The old spinning type.

There are two ways you can still be using so much electricity:
1. Your DB board is split and the inverter is only feeding a small amount of loads.
2. Your meter is faulty

Your inverter is compatible with those batteries.


Just my thoughts, could be wrong though.

I think you referring to the Wi-Fi module? That unfortunately has to be bought separately which i am considering however it is 800 so i might as well install the DB meter then.

The Meter is actually a digital one in the power box outside.

 

[Qui_Illustrati]

Thank you ill get going about installing the meter. the example helps a lot too. Can i get the prepaid meter installed privately or does it have to be done by city power?

You can install the monitoring meter in your DB yourself if comfortable but would recommend you get a sparky rather. It's a quick and easy job so should be cheap too I reckon.

 

[NightWatcher]

From the pics, I see 6 x solar panels only. Is that correct? If so, it isn't a hellova lot. Do you know what the size of the panels are, and which direction they are pointing? E.g. 450w and facing north. This is important. You might be having small panels facing the wrong direction / not getting enough sun, and contributing little to nothing to your electricity savings.

Besides the size and capability of the panels, if your inverter settings are not optimal (charge battery during the day, discharge at night), then you're wasting the money spent on the lithium batteries.

The original batteries were gel / lead acid. When switching to Lithium, you have to update the battery settings on the inverter from lead acid / gel to Lithium. This is basic stuff, probably the installer got it right, but double check. You also have to change the charge and discharge rates, the low battery + shutdown percentages, the battery capacity, and other things that are important settings. Especially when going from Lead Acid / Gel to Lithium. Your inverter might still be "seeing" the lead acid batteries with different capacities, and not even charging the batteries to full.

Your electricity bill is massive. Usually, water heating (geysers) account for 50-70% of most electricity bills. So if your geysers are properly solar, what on earth are you powering up for R7000-R8000 p/m? If we take into account your solar geysers, and factor in some savings from solar PV, your monthly grid usage should be closer to R1500 to R2000, closer to R800 on the optimistic side. I can't see it being much more than this. I'm thinking CoJ prepaid rates here. Apologies if I'm not taking into account post-paid customers with network charges and estimated readings and charges.

Before I got solar a year ago, my monthly bill was R3500-R4000 on CoJ Prepaid. And that included a regular geyser with a 4kw element, serving our family of 5, with 4 fridges/freezers, network cabinet constantly running, and a gas stove used for boiling kettle and most cooking, and only gas heaters in winter.

Your electricity usage is so ridiculously high in my mind, that you should attend to it urgently, drop everything else. Because if you can afford to pay this R7,000 to R8,000 p/m whilst being so LAX about it, you can afford to go fully off-grid, like literally 100%, by upgrading to a much bigger and better system (seeing that water heating & solar geysers are already accounted for).

You 100% right. I'm Not LAX about it I'm just extremely busy and also i wasn't sure maybe those are the costs of living and i was over exaggerating because I've never paid bills before. I'm off for a week so I'm going to try my best to get something sorted now. So to answer your questions.

It is 6 Panels and they are Facing NE. Not sure what's the rating on them The Max power says 335W does that help?
As for the settings ill have to double check because all those werid short words and symbols on the machine is not something im well aqquanated with but as far as i know the electrician who installed the batteries did that. Ill get on route to switch to prepaid did you do that through city power and how much did they quote you?

Did you recently go off the gird? if so perhaps you can recommend an electrician for me to quote me that. I'm not sure about upgrading the whole system but i can definetly try and convince my mum about a few extra panels.

 

[DeathByIp]

There is a Wi-Fi dongle attachment but it has to be bought separately but indeed capable with this model

Send me a message on Monday, got the dongle via PiF but the inverter blew.

Also which City Power branch did you go too? Process should take a month + R3k and you'll be over this hump