Ram Speed effect on Ryzen

[Areola Grande]

Just a thread for info regarding Ryzen and RAM speeds, memory timings etc as it's a common question.

 

[Spaffy]

What's the TLDW?

 

[Areola Grande]

What's the TLDW?

Get fast RAM. (3600 recommended)
Enable PBO.
Set IF to half RAM speed.
Profit.

 

[Toy Machine]

Faster is better but has diminishing returns if I am not mistaken? Pulling off the top of my head on that one though.

 

[Jaeson365]

AMD Ryzen Memory Scaling Analysis

www.overclockersclub.com

Check this out

 

[Areola Grande]

Faster is better but has diminishing returns if I am not mistaken? Pulling off the top of my head on that one though.

Correct. In the first Video, Jay used a 3950X and 2080TI.
Stock speeds (2133) gave 120FPS.
DDR4-3800 gave 142 which seemed to be a GPU bottleneck.

Of course that doesn't factor in timings, temps and other things.

 

[Toy Machine]

I was going to OC my RAM yesterday with DRAM and found out I Have M-die modules, literally never heard of it and DRAM doesn't have it xD

 

[Areola Grande]

I was going to OC my RAM yesterday with DRAM and found out I Have M-die modules, literally never heard of it and DRAM doesn't have it xD

You can still OC though. Timings might be more of a challenge though. For mine (Corsair Vengeance RGB PRO DDR4-3200), I simply set memory speed to 3400 and IF to 1700 and weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee free performance.

EDIT: (PS. You don't have to weeeeeeeeeeeee)

 

[Senshi]

I've been saying this since last year when the article was published by Gamers Nexus. Ryzen 3rd gen see's HUGE gains from Fast (high bandwith low latency ram). Performance increases from 10-30%. Anything above 20% puts it in "GPU upgrade" territory.

Rethink your "Intel is better for gaming" viewpoints, pretty sure if GN re-ran the benchmarks on a 3rd gen with a decent kit vs the 9900K or KS the AMD will tie or come out on top.

B-Die is generally considered the best for 3rd gen's, here's a link to see which kits are Samsung B-Die based : B-Die Finder

I'll leave this here for you to see yourself. That's FPS increase.

 

[Spaffy]

You can still OC though. Timings might be more of a challenge though. For mine (Corsair Vengeance RGB PRO DDR4-3200), I simply set memory speed to 3400 and IF to 1700 and weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee free performance.

EDIT: (PS. You don't have to weeeeeeeeeeeee)

I have the same RAM. Going to try as soon as I find out what IF means

 

[Areola Grande]

I have the same RAM. Going to try as soon as I find out what IF means

Infinity Fabric. It should be exactly 0.5 of the RAM speed ideally, otherwise latency is introduced. So DDR4-3200, IF of 1600.

 

[Spaffy]

Get fast RAM. (3600 recommended)
Enable POB.
Set IF to half RAM speed.
Profit.

You meant PBO

Infinity Fabric. It should be exactly 0.5 of the RAM speed ideally, otherwise latency is introduced. So DDR4-3200, IF of 1600.

I'm finding all this fascinating. I've hardly even looked at my bios settings since I got the setup

 

[Hayden29]

These FPS gains are they not dependent on what resolution you game at? i would think the gains at 1440p and 3440p would be minimal

 

[JollyJamma]

EDIT: (PS. You don't have to weeeeeeeeeeeee)

It does help though.

I got Micron E Die for this very reason - it'll overclock to 4000mhz and easily do 3600mhz with better timings. It was £77 (R1500).

I don't understand Intel's reasoning behind not letting their non Z boards not run higher speed RAM. That's like having all the power and just adding a cap to the end of your output.

Sure, they will still sell boatloads of the product via OEM builders but still, you could get a much faster machine for the same price just by ticking one box.

 

[roland]

It does help though.

I got Micron E Die for this very reason - it'll overclock to 4000mhz and easily do 3600mhz with better timings. It was £77 (R1500).

I don't understand Intel's reasoning behind not letting their non Z boards not run higher speed RAM. That's like having all the power and just adding a cap to the end of your output.

Sure, they will still sell boatloads of the product via OEM builders but still, you could get a much faster machine for the same price just by ticking one box.

What are your base speeds for the RAM?
I also have Micron E-die, but it's only 2666Mhz. I should be getting my Ryzen kit in the next few days (thanks @Senshi) and I'm already wondering what I could expect to OC to...

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[JollyJamma]

What are your base speeds for the RAM?
I also have Micron E-die, but it's only 2666Mhz. I should be getting my Ryzen kit in the next few days (thanks @Senshi) and I'm already wondering what I could expect to OC to...

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk

3200CL14

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[goldfritter]

/snip
Rethink your "Intel is better for gaming" viewpoints, pretty sure if GN re-ran the benchmarks on a 3rd gen with a decent kit vs the 9900K or KS the AMD will tie or come out on top.

I have to partially disagree with you here, and I'm a self-proclaimed AMD fan.

If you're comparing Ryzen with OC RAM, you have to compare to Intel with OC core clocks.

GN did an article where they pushed the 10600K to 5.1Ghz. I compared the FPS in that article to those in the 3900X with OC RAM, for the few games that were common between the two. The FPS difference between the two is around 5 FPS in most cases.

Getting a 4.9 or 5.0 GHz overclock on a 10600K seems to be quite easy and within the realm of the casual user. Getting 4000MHz on RAM is not. Never mind the fact that you have to buy expensive RAM to get there.

Comparing the 3900X with 3600MHz CL16 RAM, the OC'd 10600K is still quite a bit ahead - 10 - 15% IIRC.

So an absolute power overclocker with super expensive RAM can get a 3900X to nearly beat a 10600K at an overclock that is achievable by most casual overclockers.

Hence, overall, Intel is still the FPS king.

I still think Ryzen is a better buy at pretty much every price point though.

 

[Areola Grande]

I have to partially disagree with you here, and I'm a self-proclaimed AMD fan.

If you're comparing Ryzen with OC RAM, you have to compare to Intel with OC core clocks.

GN did an article where they pushed the 10600K to 5.1Ghz. I compared the FPS in that article to those in the 3900X with OC RAM, for the few games that were common between the two. The FPS difference between the two is around 5 FPS in most cases.

Getting a 4.9 or 5.0 GHz overclock on a 10600K seems to be quite easy and within the realm of the casual user. Getting 4000MHz on RAM is not. Never mind the fact that you have to buy expensive RAM to get there.

Comparing the 3900X with 3600MHz CL16 RAM, the OC'd 10600K is still quite a bit ahead - 10 - 15% IIRC.

So an absolute power overclocker with super expensive RAM can get a 3900X to nearly beat a 10600K at an overclock that is achievable by most casual overclockers.

Hence, overall, Intel is still the FPS king.

I still think Ryzen is a better buy at pretty much every price point though.

Yea, AMD has done an amazing job at closing the "ultimate FPS' gap that existed for years, and absolutely trouncing Intel at pretty much everything else. Intel is still the "Fastest for gaming" at the highest level. But most people aren't spending that type of money. For people who have a budget to consider, there's no reason to go Intel unless you have a specific use case where Intel is better (Photoshop or MAX FPS, basically.)

 

[goldfritter]

/snip

I don't understand Intel's reasoning behind not letting their non Z boards not run higher speed RAM. That's like having all the power and just adding a cap to the end of your output.

Intel locking features to the top chipset is just shitty business practice in my view. AMD B-series chipsets are just so much better value for money for pretty much everyone except very serious overclockers.

 

[JollyJamma]

So an absolute power overclocker with super expensive RAM can get a 3900X to nearly beat a 10600K at an overclock that is achievable by most casual overclockers.
.

You don’t even need super expensive RAM though, Crucial Ballistix E Die is R1949 in South Africa.

Combine that with a B450 Tomahawk and an AMD 3950X and you would be hard pressed to beat it.

 

[Senshi]

I have to partially disagree with you here, and I'm a self-proclaimed AMD fan.

If you're comparing Ryzen with OC RAM, you have to compare to Intel with OC core clocks.

GN did an article where they pushed the 10600K to 5.1Ghz. I compared the FPS in that article to those in the 3900X with OC RAM, for the few games that were common between the two. The FPS difference between the two is around 5 FPS in most cases.

Getting a 4.9 or 5.0 GHz overclock on a 10600K seems to be quite easy and within the realm of the casual user. Getting 4000MHz on RAM is not. Never mind the fact that you have to buy expensive RAM to get there.

Comparing the 3900X with 3600MHz CL16 RAM, the OC'd 10600K is still quite a bit ahead - 10 - 15% IIRC.

So an absolute power overclocker with super expensive RAM can get a 3900X to nearly beat a 10600K at an overclock that is achievable by most casual overclockers.

Hence, overall, Intel is still the FPS king.

I still think Ryzen is a better buy at pretty much every price point though.

You are comparing apples with Kangaroo's. The AMD's see tangible performance increases without having to oc, buying a "standard" kit of ram, setting XMP and off you go.

The intel's you have to overclock and not all sample's are the same.

You cannot compare the costs as the new 10th series (and their boards) are equally (and in some cases more) expensive.

 

[goldfritter]

You don’t even need super expensive RAM though, Crucial Ballistix E Die is R1949 in South Africa.

Combine that with a B450 Tomahawk and an AMD 3950X and you would be hard pressed to beat it.

But could you realistically achieve 4000 MHz with that kit? As an example, I'm a casual overclocker. I have a 3700X, X570 mobo, and B-die RAM (Corsair 3200MHz CL14). After about six hours total of tweaking with DRAM Calculator, I couldn't get my RAM stable at 3800 MHz even at the Safe preset. And I don't mean 24 hours of P95 stable, I was getting thousands of errors on OCCT after only about 40 minutes.

If I had spent the same time and energy on overclocking a 10600K, even with my limited experience, I'm 80% sure my FPS would be quite a bit better than I'm getting now.

 

[JollyJamma]

But could you realistically achieve 4000 MHz with that kit? As an example, I'm a casual overclocker. I have a 3700X, X570 mobo, and B-die RAM (Corsair 3200MHz CL14). After about six hours total of tweaking with DRAM Calculator, I couldn't get my RAM stable at 3800 MHz even at the Safe preset. And I don't mean 24 hours of P95 stable, I was getting thousands of errors on OCCT after only about 40 minutes.

If I had spent the same time and energy on overclocking a 10600K, even with my limited experience, I'm 80% sure my FPS would be quite a bit better than I'm getting now.

It’ll run at 1.4v and you’d need a decent memory controller on your board but yes, it gets the nod of approval from Buildzoid.

https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/g20fn2

 

[Wadkiller]

@goldfritter what resolution, 1080p/1440p or 4k? Difference might be on 1080p, but not 10-15% on anything higher.

 

[JollyJamma]

Intel locking features to the top chipset is just shitty business practice in my view. AMD B-series chipsets are just so much better value for money for pretty much everyone except very serious overclockers.

Yeah, I just feel like it’s a shitty business practice that most consumers will wonder why they spent their hard earned money on a system that is more expensive and slower than AMD.

Remember when Intel changed from selling quad core CPUs for huge amounts and refused to increased the core count beyond that? Then AMD stepped in and now Intels suddenly keen to change.

It’s a similar lesson that should have been learnt. It’s just bizarre.

 

[Senshi]

But could you realistically achieve 4000 MHz with that kit? As an example, I'm a casual overclocker. I have a 3700X, X570 mobo, and B-die RAM (Corsair 3200MHz CL14). After about six hours total of tweaking with DRAM Calculator, I couldn't get my RAM stable at 3800 MHz even at the Safe preset. And I don't mean 24 hours of P95 stable, I was getting thousands of errors on OCCT after only about 40 minutes.

If I had spent the same time and energy on overclocking a 10600K, even with my limited experience, I'm 80% sure my FPS would be quite a bit better than I'm getting now.

Think your biggest limiting factor is the board. Steve from GN confirmed not all boards oc RAM the same.

 

[goldfritter]

You are comparing apples with Kangaroo's. The AMD's see tangible performance increases without having to oc, buying a "standard" kit of ram, setting XMP and off you go.

The intel's you have to overclock and not all sample's are the same.

You cannot compare the costs as the new 10th series (and their boards) are equally (and in some cases more) expensive.

I'm not disputing the fact that Ryzen is better value (as you may have seen in my previous post).

And the comparison is apples to apples as far as the question of absolute FPS is concerned. At stock/XMP, Intel beats Ryzen. At mild, casual overclock, Intel beats Ryzen. At expert high-end overclock, Ryzen just about catches up to Intel - and then you need super fancy RAM that negates the better value somewhat.

Ryzen is still a better product overall. But Intel at this stage almost always wins in FPS.

 

[goldfritter]

It’ll run at 1.4v and you’d need a decent memory controller on your board but yes, it gets the nod of approval from Buildzoid.

What Buildzoid can achieve and what the average gamer looking for a casual performance boost can achieve, are two different things. I'm not saying your RAM or my RAM can't hit those lofty highs in the right hands. But I think the casual oke will still achieve more success overclocking Intel core clock than Ryzen RAM.

 

[Areola Grande]

I would be very curious to see some benchmarks of say a 3700x playing at 1440P whilst also streaming, Discord and whatever other apps streamers typically run; vs an equivalently priced Intel system.

 

[goldfritter]

@goldfritter what resolution, 1080p/1440p or 4k? Difference might be on 1080p, but not 10-15% on anything higher.

Most gamers, including myself, game at 1080p.