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Inverter Battery Help

Nikaidoboss

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Hi Guys

Sorry if this question was asked before but im on my phone so cant do proper research
I want to buy a backup power system to run my gaming pc through load shedding
Standard 3070 9900k setup nothing crazy
I was looking at 1k/12V inverter with 100ah deepgell battery
Or a 1440watt/24v with 2x 100ah
I dont quite have a grip on 12v vs 24v
But i read some confusing product pages like claiminf a 2x 100ah 1440 system can run 150watts for 4 hrs when from what i understand it should be mutiples of that
Am i missing something
Whats my wh on.a 24v inverter connected to. 2x 12V ah batteries
 
A 100Ah 12V battery stores 1.2kWh (theoretically), so 2 of them would store 2.4kWh.
It doesn't matter if you use them in series for a 24V inverter or in parallel for a 12V inverter, they still store the same amount of energy.
Where there is a difference is you will draw less current at 24V than at 12V for the same load, so the 24V inverter should be a bit more efficient.
 
Please stop buying lead acid based technology. Yes it is cheaper up front, but if you need to replace the batteries in a year, you have effectively trapped yourself into a more expensive solution form the start.

The best lead acid based batteries have lifetime ratings.

Take a good 100ah (10hr) 12V lead acid battery on a 12v inverter. Say you discharge it to 50% that equals to 50Ah or 0.6kWh (without losses). In other words you can hypothetically run 600w of load for an hour.

Yes but no.

You only get that 50Ah (0.6kWh) @50% D.O.D. if you discharge it at 10A. If you discharge it at 1C or 61A or 732W 230V AC you only get 61Ah at 50% DOD that = 30.5Ah ( 0.366kWh).

At 50% Depth of Discharge (DOD) you will get 500 cycles out of a good AGM battery. Say you have 2 bouts of load shedding per day and you discharge your 12v battery by 50% each time ( 365 days * 2 = 730 cycles ) your battery will be scrap in less than a year.
 
I need an interim solution till i move to my final house then i will prob do proper setup
I went for kool energy 1440w 2x 100ah gell batteries
im gonna run around 400-500 watt (gaming pc) so i should get 3-4hrs before it dies
It also has an expansion port to add 2x more 100ah batteries afaik
 
I need an interim solution till i move to my final house then i will prob do proper setup
I went for kool energy 1440w 2x 100ah gell batteries
im gonna run around 400-500 watt (gaming pc) so i should get 3-4hrs before it dies
It also has an expansion port to add 2x more 100ah batteries afaik
As jy dom is moet jy...
 
Lets do some quick calculations:

Your chosen system is a 24V DC system, therefore 24V at 100Ah (series connection).

On average lets say your draw is 450W.

Therefore 0.45kWh/h
2 hours of Load shedding = 0.9kWh

Your batteries in series = 1.2kWh at 100% Depth of Discharge
Your batteries in series = 0.6kWh at 50% Depth of Discharge

Your requirement = 0.9kWh = 75% Depth of Discharge

Call it 700 Cycles (at that DOD) on your battery bank if they are good gel batteries.

2 Load sheds a day * 365 = 730 Cycles

I haven't even brought in your discharge rate , losses and your 3-4 hours into account.

GLHF 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
Lets do some quick calculations:

Your chosen system is a 24V DC system, therefore 24V at 100Ah (series connection).

On average lets say your draw is 450W.

Therefore 0.45kWh/h
2 hours of Load shedding = 0.9kWh

Your batteries in series = 1.2kWh at 100% Depth of Discharge
Your batteries in series = 0.6kWh at 50% Depth of Discharge

Your requirement = 0.9kWh = 75% Depth of Discharge

Call it 700 Cycles (at that DOD) on your battery bank if they are good gel batteries.

2 Load sheds a day * 365 = 730 Cycles

I haven't even brought in your discharge rate , losses and your 3-4 hours into account.

GLHF 🤷🏻‍♂️
Isnt 100ah x2 2400wh ? Im so confused
 
Isnt 100ah x2 2400wh ? Im so confused
Amp / ah is a measure of current / current for an hour. If you multiply that by 2, it still stays a measure of current.

Watts / wh is a measure of power / power over an hour.

If you recall somewhere in standard 6/7 or grade 8/9 physics or whatever it is called now, there used to be a section called electricity.

Quick recap
Power (watts) = V (voltage) x I (current)
 
Stolen from internet:

So what’s the main difference between putting your batteries in series vs. parallel? Connecting in series increases voltage, but wiring in parallel increases battery capacity. The total voltage doesn’t change.

This means that two 12V 30Ah batteries in parallel would give you a total capacity of 60 amp hours. Voltage stays at 12 volts.
 
I think @Nikaidoboss is referring to this. @SoF_ZA probably made a typo with the 100% DoD. You've got 1.2 kWh available at 50% DoD (excl discharge rate losses.)
Yes that's what I mean , you guys gave me a scare
I have 2400wh at 100% D.O.D , my pc takes 200w when not gaming prob so i think ill be fine
I also have a MSI GE66 laptop that I can migrate to if I wanna play and not doing something competitive that needs my desktop
 
Yes 24v * 100ah = 2400wh ?
Yes. The the next bit of fun. 2400w means it can supply 2400w for 1 hour and it will be completely dead.

So with lead acid and all the different fancy names they come with, you should not discharge more than 50% as it seriously reduces the cycle life. So if you divide the 2400wh by 2, you get 1200wh that you can use. If you want it to last 4 hours, you should not use more than 1200/4 = 300 watts constant load over the 4 hours.
 
Amp / ah is a measure of current / current for an hour. If you multiply that by 2, it still stays a measure of current.

Watts / wh is a measure of power / power over an hour.

If you recall somewhere in standard 6/7 or grade 8/9 physics or whatever it is called now, there used to be a section called electricity.

Quick recap
Power (watts) = V (voltage) x I (current)

Watts is power, but Wh is energy.
 
I will just put my 2 cents in here. Not looking for any argument and don't shoot me this is based on my own experience.

Just last week I had to replace my 2 batteries because of 2 reasons. (only 6 months old and paid R6000 for the AGM batteries)

1.) I had it run down twice until the alarm from the inverter came on to alert me of low voltage. This is because my area where I stay was without power for 2 days at a time twice over 2 months. (Cable theft and transformer vandalism) Huge blow to the batteries.

2.) I had 2 batteries (105Ah on my 3KW inverter) charging at 30A. This is exceeding the golden rule of 10% charging rate of the Ah rating on the batteries. Now people can debate this, I spoke to 2 different Companies and both stated the same principles that even if the batteries state they have 30 or 50A max charging rate, you try to never exceed the 10% rule for the longevity of the batteries.
10% x 100Ah = 10A charging and not 20 or 30A. Yes it will charge much faster at higher amps, but WILL impact the life span of the batteries.

Then I started asking more questions to understand inverters, solar, batteries and the operating of the equipment etc.

As mentioned, I have a 3KW inverter and both companies advised me to run 2 banks of 2x 100Ah batteries each for the size of my inverter simply because, my lowest charging on my inverter is 20A and running 2x banks of 100Ah will give me 200Ah and this is spot on with the 10% rule. Some people will argu against this, each to their own. I like to save where I can if I can.

So I had to pay the school fees and price and now I have 4x 105Ah batteries (2 banks) and boy can I see the difference and my inverter is also smiling.

This should probably last me at least 2 years if not longer with the current load shedding of 2 hours twice a day. The stage 6 is a smasher, because I need at least 5 hours to charge the 4 batteries with a load of 200-250 watts on the system.
For 2 hours of load shedding they take about 1-2 hours to charge depending on the load. During the day I only run about 130 watts of load and after 2 hours of load shedding it takes about 40min of charge till full.

What do I normally run: (Weekends only)
2 Pc's
Wifi router
some lights (12V 3 watt down lighters on 5 amp PSU)
Occasionally cellphone chargers
And some desk top fans

I try to max my load on the inverter to 25% ( 750 watts and this is my personal preference) so that I can get the most life out of the batteries, but I generally put a little less on the inverter during load shedding as per the above list I think is about 500 watts max.

During daytime during the week I only run my office PC and some small thingies and this runs a load of about +- 130 watts total.

Here comes the part people normally don't explain and as a lot of people that recommend Li-ion / Life-Po is correct in suggesting this.
IF you run your batteries down by 10% every load shedding, you can get a maximum of about 2000 cycles regardless.
Running the batteries down to 50% will give you about +- 300 cycles life out of them.

With Li-ion you can get up to 10 000 cycles of life while running them down all the way to 50%.

Now lets do my math.
I paid R8500 for the 4 new 105AH deep cycle batteries last week. They will probably last me 2 years with this dam load shedding we have at the moment and having to charge the batteries average twice a day. Every charge count as a charging cycle on the battery's life and the deeper they drain the harder they work and less life you get from them adding it up.

If I had the money and I paid R17 000 for 2x 100AH Li-ion batteries, I could save at least R35 000 minimum over the next 10 years that I can get from the Li-ion batteries instead having to pay R8500 min. every 2 years for 4 new batteries.

My OPINION if someone wants to run a gaming PC, TV, wifi and few lights you are good to go with a minimum of 1800watts inverter and 2x 100Ah Li-ion batteries saving you hefty costs over the long run. This is just for individuals and limited load. For a family house you need deep pockets.
Again, this is my opinion, each to their own and what can fit your budget.

PS: Li-ion batteries can also handle the higher charging rates and will charge faster than the Lead Acid batteries which is a great bonus to have.
Stolen from another thread.

Read the whole thing @Nikaidoboss
 
Yes that's what I mean , you guys gave me a scare
I have 2400wh at 100% D.O.D , my pc takes 200w when not gaming prob so i think ill be fine
I also have a MSI GE66 laptop that I can migrate to if I wanna play and not doing something competitive that needs my desktop
You're not wrong - but you're not taking any losses into account here - discharging at 200-400W is going to have quite a lot of losses due to battery internal resistance, your inverter itself will have conversion losses (usually higher in cheaper inverters).
Then you'll run into charging issues - these systems charge very slowly - so on a level 4 loadshedding schedule they don't get your batteries to 100% between cycles - meaning you end up with less available wh than you may expect, and draining that will put you even lower for the next cycle.
 
Yes. The the next bit of fun. 2400w means it can supply 2400w for 1 hour and it will be completely dead.

So with lead acid and all the different fancy names they come with, you should not discharge more than 50% as it seriously reduces the cycle life. So if you divide the 2400wh by 2, you get 1200wh that you can use. If you want it to last 4 hours, you should not use more than 1200/4 = 300 watts constant load over the 4 hours.
Yep, it's gell which is abit better than AGM from what I googled.
I have another question
Can I replace the batteries with Lithium ones when I have the money ?
Also can I add another 2x 100ah gell batteries to that system so that I have more wh and I discharge them to 50-60% levels max
 
Yep, it's gell which is abit better than AGM from what I googled.
I have another question
Can I replace the batteries with Lithium ones when I have the money ?
Also can I add another 2x 100ah gell batteries to that system so that I have more wh and I discharge them to 50-60% levels max
Yes you can but it’s a bit of a waste of money because with thr current loadshedding, either the batteries are not going to last or you are not going to be able to survive the 4.5 hours. If you have a 24 volt system, you can add batteries in pairs of 2 but do it all at once. Don’t buy 2 now and another 2 later.

Remember, there’s also the charging that needs to happen as well. For example, I had loadshedding this morning from 6-10:30 which is 4.5 hours and then I have another round at 14:00 which only gives 3.5 hours to charge which isn’t enough generally. Repeat this process multiple times and you end up with dead batteries.

If I were you, I would rather just power the bare essentials. Get a lithium drop in replacement battery that will at least last a bit longer and has protection and then save up for a decent system.

If you go lithium, you can get 1 or 2 batteries now and then add more later.
 
Just another thing to consider is those trolley type inverters are not great. I bought 1 for the complex guard house in nov 2021. Oct this year, it stopped working. Took it in to Ellie’s and they said surge damage is not covered by warranty so I had to pay for repairs. Afterwards, the inverter was disconnected from mains when loadshedding starts and only connected again after about 10 minutes when power comes back.

Last week, it popped again and is back for repairs at probably another R1000 to fix.
 

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