HTPC for noobs - How to

[Gelmir]

Hey guys,

Just got myself a 50" TV for the lounge and I want to get a HTPC thing going.
Up to now, I've been using an old laptop with a external hdd to play movies and series through the tv. (sound goes to the home theater and video to the 32")
Problem is the lappy can't handle HD movies and getting up to change to a next show / movie is a pain.

So let's assume I know zip about anything HTPS related.

I need to build / get one that I can use to play music / movies / series and perhaps use as a download / host machine

1. What hardware do you suggest ?
2. How do you interact with it from the couch ?
3. Would like to put it on my wifi cause it's too far from my router

Criteria is:
a. budget is tight, so I don't want best spec, just sufficient spec
b. lounge is 6m x 6m so wireless mouse and keyboards battle to work
c. what pre-built options do I have ?
d. TV has HDMI and VGA inputs
e. my ht does not have HDMI and can only play DVDs, not Blu-ray

Your advise and sharing of your infinite wisdom will be muchly appreciated. Remeber, I'm like your grandma, I know jack about HTPCs

 

[Moonunit]

If you are on a tight budget have a look at the Android TV sticks. Something like a Mk808 dual core or Mk908 quad core these can be bought with every thing needed for around R1000. You will have to install custom firmware for the best experience.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

 

[ThatGuy_ZA]

If your budget is limited and you just want something to play movies/series from an external hard drive, I'd go for a blu ray player. We have a Sony one (not sure what model) and it plays every format I've thrown at it.


Sent from my iPad mini using Tapatalk

 

[ian_stagib]

The only thing I can think of for your solution will be a hp microserver setup. Keep an eye out here on carb and you'll find one including a gpu which is necessary for you to play hd movies with for between R1500 and R2000. The reasons why I'm suggesting this setup is:

1) try build a new pc for less, it'll be a challenge.
2) it is small and quiet
3) can run pretty much any os you want, including windows, just fine.
4) consumes very little power (about 35w on load)
5) can easily take a couple of drives for storage, with nice easy access to them.

A quick note on supported gfx cards if you have to buy a microserver new and have to still choose one.

- it can't draw more than 25w. that's the max the pci-e slot here will give and you don't have additional power connectors
- it really needs to be single slot thickness. Make sure about this before buying. Most passive cards use an oversize heatsink which makes it useless. The cards that have a little fan on are usually the thin ones you want.
- try going nvidia as their driver support in linux is better, although ati is improving.
- must have low profile bracket

Cards I'd recommend: gt520, gt610 both the ones with fans.

You'll have hdmi out on this unit with the gpu, so I'm just wondering how your ht unit will handle audio. You say it doesn't have hdmi in, so does it at least have optical in? Does your tv have optical out? If you have these two things then you can take the hdmi signal to your tv and then the audio to your ht system via optical.

Also, can you tell me if your tv can decode dts and Dolby digital audio streams? My old Samsung all in one didn't have hdmi in but had optical in and I thought that would be enough. However when I bounced the audio from my tv as mentioned above, I found that dts audio wouldn't play properly which is a serious let down. So I plugged a usb sound card into the microserver that had optical out. You see, the unit that will transfer the audio onto optical does the decoding of the audio and will output the audio as pcm bitstream which everything can handle. I haven't yet seen anything that did passthrough with optical so I'm fairly certain of that statement.

Once you're up and running hardware wise then you can choose from a range of options, as long as its with xbmc

Xbmc comes in linux and windows flavours to suit your needs (plus a few others). Some other people might also mention plex, but I'll still experiment with that. let's just say you can't go wrong with xbmc and it's real easy to get going and is very polished and supported. If you're proficient with linux then go that route cause obviously you won't need a license for the os, otherwise you'll most likely want windows cause you want to make it a bit more versatile with it being a download rig and so on and windows is of course what most of us are used to.

As for how to interface with it, I use a Logitech k400 keyboard although I'd also like the k700. There are others that are smaller out there like from lenovo but I'll leave you to decide what suits your needs. Having the k400 is handy for other things around the house when I need a keyboard quick. Don't stress about the wireless aspect, I've had it being perfectly useable way over 6m. Google "small htpc keyboards if you'd like to see some of the smaller ones I've mentioned. The dinovo edge would be nice but it's pricey.

I also use a range of apps to control xbmc from the phones or tablets in the house. on iOS I like xbmc constellation, on android I like yatse. But take your pick, theres plenty.

hope that helps

 

[Gelmir]

Thanks for the advise, especially yours [MENTION=766]ian_stagib[/MENTION]
Already learnt stuff I didn't know !

I started off by installing xbmc on the laptop. It already made a difference.Movies that was unwatchable before now plays smoothly, so that is already part of my problem solved.
I also put the xbmc app on my phone, so that solves my remote issue as well. Sure it's not the best, but since I'm the only one controlling what is on the screen, it doesn't really matter.
The laptop is on the wifi, so I managed to access content from my other PC as well. The only thing I haven't done yet is to try and stream a movie over wifi. Not sure if it will work or not. Expecting it to be too slow for that.

You asked about the optical connection. The tv doesn't have one, but my HT has OPTICAL IN. That is another thing I have never fiddled with and have no clue about. I assume it's for audio only and that it's digital ? (supporting surround sound ect ?)
Currently I'm only making use of stereo output from the laptop which isn't optimal but the HT has 'modes' that simulate surround sound.

I'll keep an eye out for a micro server setup. Sound like it's the better option.
The only other thing I want to ask, is why use Linux (other than because of licensing issues) ?
I have never worked with Linux and wouldn't even know how to do anything with it. Does it have speed / stability advances over Windows ? Or is it just another one of those things that people like to tinker with for the sake of tinkering ?

 

[ian_stagib]

Optical is indeed only for audio and it's of course a digital connection. It however doesn't support transport of the uncompressed audio codecs (DTS-HD MA, Dolby TrueHD), so for those it'll need to be decoded first and sent with another uncompressed codec, Uncompressed PCM, and keeping in mind your receiver would need to support that. But that's just a bit of general knowledge really, you'll feel your way around these things. For now you just need to be able to output sound to your ht and for that you only have optical in on your ht as an option. Therefore you'll need to make sure that either your ht can decode the common audio codecs you're likely to use (dts and dolby digital being the important ones, anything less can be assumed to be supported), or that you decode the audio before sending to the ht like I did with my usb sound card (fyi mine isn't being used and is now gathering dust now).

As for OS, linux is obviously more lightweight. Especially if you consider using OpenELEC which is a linux and xbmc combo but stripped to only use what you need for the htpc. It'll therefore have very fast boot times and so on. XBMCbuntu is more for if you want to use linux for some other things or just want a free OS and like having some kind of gui available to you if you need it. Windows is fine though, it'll just be easier to use for every day stuff outside of the htpc use and you might want a gig or two more ram than you would with linux. For stability, perhaps linux does have an edge but the advantage doesn't necessarily outweigh the convenience of windows. You decide.

 

[bobbels_ZA]

Hi Gelmir,

Just to give you an idea of what I am using, I have a download/media server in my PC room with Media Center master installed on it and it is great software for managing you media collection like movies and tv shows it keeps every tv show up to date, and you can specify what your minimum quality should be etc. I must be honest, it was a pain to set up, but it now runs very stable.

As for my HTPC, this might be out of your budget, but I use a Sapphire EDGE VS8 with an ssd connected to my home network via gigabit - Wifi is useless for HD content. I use my Logitech K400 and works great for watching a movie/episode. I have Media Browser that connects to my media server and shows everything nicely on the TV with all the metadata of the movies/tv shows that Media Center Master can find.

Now I know this is a setup you probably would not go for, but just wanted to give my insights too regarding htpc stuffies. Oh BTW, this is what it looks like :


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[biff]

Ian pretty much summed it up. Only thing I can add is a Cideko Air keyboard for control. I see there is also a Rii keyboard.

Air keyboard might take a while to get used to. Couple of mates who tried it struggled.

 

[Orihalcon]

+1 for the K400 from Logitech. Works like a charm.
[MENTION=17931]bobbels_ZA[/MENTION] - I disagree on your statement that wireless is useless for HD streaming...I've streamed a 40GB odd version of Avatar via wireless with ZERO lag or problems on 5ghz spectrum connected at 450mbps.

 

[Gelmir]

Thanks guys, this info is very helpful.
I never really bothered with the htpc thing before, but now that the kids are getting a bit bigger and want to watch movies all the time, it makes sense to get into it properly. (plus it's just such a pleasure to sit in front of 50" of goodness )

@Bobbles_ZA, that Sapphire EDGE VS8 is quite nice, perhaps something to work towards getting eventually.
Just a question on the Media Centre Master software. Is it subscription based or does it acquire the shows via 'other' means ?

Also, what is the online pay-tv thing called that some people here use instead of Dstv? Can that be integrated with this media center software ?

Another question:
Since there seems to be a shortage of 2nd hand HP Microserver type rigs on Carb at the moment, I'll probably have to make a plan to build something to suit my needs.
Obviously it's not a gaming rig, so what order of preference should be given to the hardware for a htpc? For instance is a better gpu more important than more ram or a better sound card preferred to a stronger cpu ? Cause I'm looking at getting a C2D setup from Dibzzz for this but need a gpu and maybe a wifi lan card. (my living room is far away from my router)

 

[Orihalcon]

That would be Hulu or NetFlix.

You cannot directly get them to stream here in SA. You have to go through a VPN or use Unotelly - which most people use with much success and happiness.

 

[Gelmir]

That would be Hulu or NetFlix.

You cannot directly get them to stream here in SA. You have to go through a VPN or use Unotelly - which most people use with much success and happiness.

A-ha, those be the names I was looking for. Couldn't remember them though. Thanks O

 

[megustav]

I have:

• Prodigy case
• ZOTAC Intel LGA 775 GeForce 9300 Mini-ITX WiFi (9300 runs any movie)
• 4gb RAM
• C2D 3.0 ghz


Maybe have a look at something like this: http://www.carbonite.co.za/f10/commell-lv-678-itx-motherboard-53326/

And pair it with am elite 120 case, 4gb ram, a nice cheap GPU and a cheapish small PSU.

 

[ian_stagib]

Is it subscription based or does it acquire the shows via 'other' means ?

Another question:
Since there seems to be a shortage of 2nd hand HP Microserver type rigs on Carb at the moment, I'll probably have to make a plan to build something to suit my needs.
Obviously it's not a gaming rig, so what order of preference should be given to the hardware for a htpc? For instance is a better gpu more important than more ram or a better sound card preferred to a stronger cpu ? Cause I'm looking at getting a C2D setup from Dibzzz for this but need a gpu and maybe a wifi lan card.

1) the answer is "other means", and this isn't the only software out there that does that kind of management (although such discussions aren't allowed here).
2) gpu is most important. C2D is more than enough. Just consider power usage if this will be on 24/7. I don't turn my htpc off. I don't like to wait for booting up


One you set this up properly you can get rid of DSTV. You'll never ever need to use it except for some sport.

 

[megustav]

1) the answer is "other means", and this isn't the only software out there that does that kind of management (although such discussions aren't allowed here).
2) gpu is most important. C2D is more than enough. Just consider power usage if this will be on 24/7. I don't turn my htpc off. I don't like to wait for booting up


One you set this up properly you can get rid of DSTV. You'll never ever need to use it except for some sport.

Yea and I have a place to stream sport from.. not the best quality, but acceptable. Just need to use chrome with adblock. haha.

Pity I cant mention the web address here

 

[Gelmir]

1) the answer is "other means", and this isn't the only software out there that does that kind of management (although such discussions aren't allowed here).
2) gpu is most important. C2D is more than enough. Just consider power usage if this will be on 24/7. I don't turn my htpc off. I don't like to wait for booting up


One you set this up properly you can get rid of DSTV. You'll never ever need to use it except for some sport.

I have a Drifta for sport, the rest of dstv is not worth the money in my opinion.

I'll be reading up on the 'other means' for interest sake. Wouldn't want to upset the perfect equilibrium we have here by asking about it.

Again, thanks for the info, I learnt a lot about this stuff.

 

[Gelmir]

Righty then, it looks like I might have sourced a HP Microserver with a gpu. Just waiting to get it so I can test it out.

How 'upgradeable' are these things as far as expansion slots go? Reason for asking is since it doesn't have audio out, and I want to run the audio through my HT system, I might have to add a sound card of sorts. [MENTION=766]ian_stagib[/MENTION] you said you used a USB sound card, is that because the microserver is not upgradeable ? And what kind was it?

My sound options currently are:
HDMI from server to TV
1. From the tv to the HT I'll have to try and run RCA audio out (if the TV has this option, if it does it will be stereo only and no worse than what I currently have)
2. Add a sound card of sorts to the server and run an optical cable from the sound card to the HT optical in

 

[ian_stagib]

Rather add a sound card to the microserver. I used a usb one cause I had one handy. The microserver has 1 x 16x pci-e and 1 x 1x pci-e. So you can pop in a low profile pci-e sound card. I'm not sure which one is best but I know xonar has a good one.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 4

 

[Gelmir]

Right, the plot thickens !

I got a Hp Microserver with a Radeon HD 5450 that I'm testing at the moment.

I hooked it up to the 50" via HDMI, and it picked up the resolution as 1080 @60Hz (since the tv is full HD) but the display looks absolutely horrible.
Kind of hard to explain, but text is blurry and the shadows looks like they're bleeding. While playing a movie, the quality is also really poef.

Now on my old laptop, the VGA out also displayed at 1080 but the picture is brilliant. Crisp and clear. Same res, but it looks like it's running at 640x480 over HDMI.
I then used the VGA out on the microserver, and the quality is again very good, although it can't display it at 1920x1080.
After some Googling I found that a lot of people have issues with HDMI and their TVs. The solution seems to be to tweak overscan settings on the TV and the GPU to a point where it "syncs" with what the tv is trying to display.

What I'll do now is to use a DVI-to-VGA converter to send the proper res to the TV via the DVI port, but then I lose the audio obviously.
I don't think it's a faulty cable because after a lot of tweaking, I managed to get it to look better (after installing Catalyst Control Center and more recent drivers) but it still looks worse than the good ol' D-type VGA out. I thought HDMI should be much better?

Guess my question is has anyone else here experienced the same thing before and if so, how did you fix it ?

 

[biff]

After some Googling I found that a lot of people have issues with HDMI and their TVs. The solution seems to be to tweak overscan settings on the TV and the GPU to a point where it "syncs" with what the tv is trying to display.

What I'll do now is to use a DVI-to-VGA converter to send the proper res to the TV via the DVI port, but then I lose the audio obviously.

I was one of those people having HDMI issues! I had a similar situation. What I found was my onboard HMDI port from mobo to TV can POST, but then it dies.
The only way I got mine working was was using the HDMI-DVI converter into my GT210 DVI port.
I did not loose audio. I was also under the impression that I would need an audio cable, but it seems this is not the case. Havent fiddled again due to being lazy and dedicating more time to games.

 

[SilvRav]

To be honest, for hassle free streaming, etc. use a console (ps3 slim, etc.) I got the PS3 slim on special from makro for 1999 with 1 controller. It is connected via wifi to my network, and have dedicated apps installed (hulu, netflix, online DVD rental shops, etc) and dont have a days hassle with it.

When I had a HTPC, i had to always fix something or some setting to ensure it plays HD or that the format is correct or or or. Also, no need to directly download series from the net, just stream then via netfllix or hulu.....with movies, etc.

 

[SkT Nitro]

If you can get the picture working with the hdmi cable you can use the tvs aux output for sound

 

[ian_stagib]

If you are talking about the borders of your display not lining up properly then use your tv remote to go to settings, then display settings and then look for where it asks 16:9, 4:3, etc. You'll see "just scan" or something similar. Use that. What OS are you using? Windows? If so, make sure it's not windows server or derivatives. Consumer ati cards don't like it. As an experiment, try plug the htpc into a normal pc monitor and tell us what it looks like.

To be honest, for hassle free streaming, etc. use a console (ps3 slim, etc.) I got the PS3 slim on special from makro for 1999 with 1 controller. It is connected via wifi to my network, and have dedicated apps installed (hulu, netflix, online DVD rental shops, etc) and dont have a days hassle with it.

When I had a HTPC, i had to always fix something or some setting to ensure it plays HD or that the format is correct or or or. Also, no need to directly download series from the net, just stream then via netfllix or hulu.....with movies, etc.

Then why are there so many of us that don't have issues and it's pretty much a plug and play setup?

Sent using direct mind to machine interface

 

[Gelmir]

If you are talking about the borders of your display not lining up properly then use your tv remote to go to settings, then display settings and then look for where it asks 16:9, 4:3, etc. You'll see "just scan" or something similar. Use that. What OS are you using? Windows? If so, make sure it's not windows server or derivatives. Consumer ati cards don't like it. As an experiment, try plug the htpc into a normal pc monitor and tell us what it looks like.




Then why are there so many of us that don't have issues and it's pretty much a plug and play setup?

Sent using direct mind to machine interface

The borders don't line up, but I managed to fix that between the settings on the TV and the settings on the GPU. I had to switch off the overscan on the TV completely and adjusted the gpu to 5% to fill the picture.
That is not really the problem. The issue is with the quality of the picture itself. It looks horrible. The text is not clear and movies looks like a copy of something you bought next to the road. The tv and gpu shows it's resolution as 1080 but something just ain't right.

The machine has Win7 64bit on and is running 1gb ram. I installed the latest Catalyst drivers but it made not difference (other than giving me the control panel to tweak settings from).
I can run video from the DVI on the gpu or from the onboard vga if I must. The onboard just can't display 1920x1080.
Before replacing the GPU I want to try the DVI to HDMI converter thing. It could be an incompatibility between the tv and the hdmi signal I guess.

It's just disappointing because HDMI is supposed to be so much better than vga

 

[SilvRav]

If you are talking about the borders of your display not lining up properly then use your tv remote to go to settings, then display settings and then look for where it asks 16:9, 4:3, etc. You'll see "just scan" or something similar. Use that. What OS are you using? Windows? If so, make sure it's not windows server or derivatives. Consumer ati cards don't like it. As an experiment, try plug the htpc into a normal pc monitor and tell us what it looks like.




Then why are there so many of us that don't have issues and it's pretty much a plug and play setup?

Sent using direct mind to machine interface

out of the 100,000+ users of xbmc in SA, there is like 50 on here?

Believe me, the less tech saffy people have a lot of issue running HTPC

 

[chickenbeef]

What TV is it?

Play around with the sharpness and see if there's a "PC Mode" for HDMI in the menu. Also check if you can rename the HDMI input or change the HDMI input type to "PC".

Usually the cheap/not well known brand TVs do not have this option in which case you're SOL. You can try updating the firmware though.

 

[Gelmir]

What TV is it?

Play around with the sharpness and see if there's a "PC Mode" for HDMI in the menu. Also check if you can rename the HDMI input or change the HDMI input type to "PC".

Usually the cheap/not well known brand TVs do not have this option in which case you're SOL. You can try updating the firmware though.

It's a Sinotec (ye ye not the greatest but I can't pay R14k for a TV) and it doesn't have an option to rename the input type. I saw this can make a difference but doesn't apply to my situation. At least the quality of the display is quite good for the price I paid.

I got a DVI-to-HDMI and DVI-to-VGA convertor this morning. I'll see what (if any) difference this makes. If I have to sacrifice the sound, I'll get a USB sound card for that.

Regarding XBMC, I must say I can't seem to add files to my libraries. Suppose I should RTFM cause I can't figure it out.

 

[ian_stagib]

I think you need to revisit the idea that it's a faulty hdmi cable. Reason for saying is that it's the common denominator here, and not all hdmi cables are made equal. Can you plug another hdmi source into the tv (laptop, DVD player, etc)? If it stays the same then take ur microserver and that cable and plug it into a pc monitor as I've mentioned. We need to rule out where your issue is. It may very well be that your tv just doesn't like hdmi or something (which would be horrible news I know). I've never had an issue like this so somewhere there's something wrong. My colleague has the exact same video card in his microserver on a Sony tv and it's perfect.

Sent using direct mind to machine interface

 

[themank]

Check out the second to last comment here. I am confident it is a 1:1 pixel mapping issue.

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/342795-32-quot-Samsung-FHD-or-42-quot-Sinotec-FHD/page2

 

[Gelmir]

Check out the second to last comment here. I am confident it is a 1:1 pixel mapping issue.

32" Samsung FHD or 42" Sinotec FHD - Page 2

It could very well be. When I started stretching the display using the Catalyst control panel, it started to improve, but it still looked like poop when playing a movie. I know the TV can display properly because it looks awesome using the VGA connector but maybe Sinotec + HDMI = fail. At the price I paid, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case.

I'll try to test another cable tomorrow as well. Not sure if I have any other HDMI devices at home, bit will see if I can isolate the issue.
But like you guys said, it might be the TVs abality to handle hdmi. Do displays like that have firmware upgrades available ?