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Full frame vs crop sensor

Verkeer

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Howsit carbies, happy Friday!

So I've got a Canon 1100D with 2 crop frame lenses.
1 x f/3.5-5.6 18-55mm kit
1 x f/4-5.6 70-300mm zoom

I'm looking at a f/2.4-22 15mm prime lens, for a full frame.

I'm guessing I'll get an effective 24mm focal length.
Would it be worth it for the larger aperture? Or just bite the bullet and buy a better camera if I'm getting that lens?
 

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Hi,

The crop frame lens figures are measure for 35mm even if they are crop lenses I think. Right? So the kit lens is a 29-88mm lens, so the 15mm is also wider.

Aperture and cropping is weird. I think light intensity is the same, but depth of field also changes with the crop. Usually the rule of thumb is 1-stop for a 1.5x focal length crop.

And whether it’s worth it? Difficult to say, because it depends on what you want more and what you can afford. A full-frame lens will still work whenever you upgrade your body (but will then be a 15mm) but it locks you more into the Canon ecosystem. A new body, with Only crop lenses, will be a new system, effectively, and depending on how invested you are in Canon, it would be a chance to look what else there is (Fuji, Sony, etc.).

I had a similar moment when wanting a prime for my Sony A7R mk1 and realized I could pick up a Fuji XT3 with a prime for only a little more and move into a more affordable ecosystem in general.

sorry if I made you question more complicated! If you’re definitely sticking with Canon then the 15mm won’t go to waste.
 

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Howsit carbies, happy Friday!

So I've got a Canon 1100D with 2 crop frame lenses.
1 x f/3.5-5.6 18-55mm kit
1 x f/4-5.6 70-300mm zoom

I'm looking at a f/2.4-22 15mm prime lens, for a full frame.

I'm guessing I'll get an effective 24mm focal length.
Would it be worth it for the larger aperture? Or just bite the bullet and buy a better camera if I'm getting that lens?
Which lens do you have in mind which is 15mm F2.4? And what is the aim for getting a larger aperture lens, more light or less depth of field?
 

Verkeer

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Hi,

The crop frame lens figures are measure for 35mm even if they are crop lenses I think. Right? So the kit lens is a 29-88mm lens, so the 15mm is also wider.
That's a good question. I'm not sure about what size my current lenses are, but I know that you can put APS-C lenses on full frame but it won't work. So I'm guessing if I have APS-C lenses currently that the 18mm is 18mm.

And whether it’s worth it? Difficult to say, because it depends on what you want more and what you can afford. A full-frame lens will still work whenever you upgrade your body (but will then be a 15mm) but it locks you more into the Canon ecosystem. A new body, with Only crop lenses, will be a new system, effectively, and depending on how invested you are in Canon, it would be a chance to look what else there is (Fuji, Sony, etc.).
So I'm not too bothered about what brand I'm using. I'm more interested in the final product.
Guess I'll start looking at what else there is, thank you.

Which lens do you have in mind which is 15mm F2.4? And what is the aim for getting a larger aperture lens, more light or less depth of field?
This is what I noticed:

I'm looking for more light.
I've found myself being asked to take a lot of photos that are in low light conditions.
Sure, I know my current camera doesn't help at all with low light, but hopefully the aperture helps enough.

Shooting landscapes is also fun for me, unfortunately I won't get the sweet wide angle the lens offers unless I upgrade to full frame.
 

Mb12

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That's a good question. I'm not sure about what size my current lenses are, but I know that you can put APS-C lenses on full frame but it won't work. So I'm guessing if I have APS-C lenses currently that the 18mm is 18mm.


So I'm not too bothered about what brand I'm using. I'm more interested in the final product.
Guess I'll start looking at what else there is, thank you.


This is what I noticed:

I'm looking for more light.
I've found myself being asked to take a lot of photos that are in low light conditions.
Sure, I know my current camera doesn't help at all with low light, but hopefully the aperture helps enough.

Shooting landscapes is also fun for me, unfortunately I won't get the sweet wide angle the lens offers unless I upgrade to full frame.

Regarding that lens, have you watched this video, and are you prepared to deal with manual focus?

If yes, it seems it's quite a useful lens and fills a niche gap at an affordable price. If you ever upgrade to FF, it will be a very interesting tool in your arsenal. Going from an 1100D to any full frame is quite a financial leap though, so maybe don't weigh too much on that bet.
 

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The irix lens is manual focus, so good for landscapes but manual focusing in dark scenes is tough!
Just another thing to think about.

Regarding that lens, have you watched this video, and are you prepared to deal with manual focus?

If yes, it seems it's quite a useful lens and fills a niche gap at an affordable price. If you ever upgrade to FF, it will be a very interesting tool in your arsenal. Going from an 1100D to any full frame is quite a financial leap though, so maybe don't weigh too much on that bet.
I was thinking the same, especially manual focus in dark scenes is tough and wide aperture makes it harder to get it just right.
 

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Aperture and cropping is weird. I think light intensity is the same, but depth of field also changes with the crop. Usually the rule of thumb is 1-stop for a 1.5x focal length crop.
Not entirely. The DOF changes because your distance relative to the subject changes.

So I'm guessing if I have APS-C lenses currently that the 18mm is 18mm.
No, 18mm is a physical feature. Focal length is the distance between the optical center of the lense and the sensor. 18mm on any lense with your camera fives a FOV of 29mm (18mm x 1.6 (the crop factor)).

The irix lens is manual focus, so good for landscapes but manual focusing in dark scenes is tough!
With such a wide lense it will be fairly easy to nail focus, but his camera also has a tiny viewfinder which could make things harder.
 

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The irix lens is manual focus, so good for landscapes but manual focusing in dark scenes is tough!
Just another thing to think about.
I don't mind manual focus at all. Half of the photos I take is manual everything.

No, 18mm is a physical feature. Focal length is the distance between the optical center of the lense and the sensor. 18mm on any lense with your camera fives a FOV of 29mm (18mm x 1.6 (the crop factor)).
Thank you for the education.
So I guess the lens will then give me a few mm extra FOV which is nice as well.
 

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Just out of curiosity, could you elaborate on these low-light situations that you are shooting in? Are you able to use a flash or is it best not to have a flash?
 

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Just out of curiosity, could you elaborate on these low-light situations that you are shooting in? Are you able to use a flash or is it best not to have a flash?
Sure thing.
I can most certainly use flash in most of the locations, it's just that I don't have an external flash yet. The onboard doesn't work well at all.
I've had to shoot 2 engagements and a few nightclub sessions recently.
I end up deleting half the photos and spend to much time on post-processing to fix small issues that wouldn't have been a problem if there was enough light.
 

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Not entirely. The DOF changes because your distance relative to the subject changes.
it’s more complicated than that. To get the same shot with a cropped sensor you either use a wider lens than the FF or have to be further away. Both change your DOF in a very similar way.

Using a 50mm lens on APS-C sensor at f2.0 with a fixed distance to the subject, will have the same depth of field equivalent to a FullFrame sensor with a 80mm lens stopped down to roughly f3 at that same distance.

Since the discussion was on the 21mm equivalent of the 15mm lens, my comparison of the DoF would be with a 21mm lens on a FF sensor.

If using the same lens on a FF or APS-C sensor, framing the same shot, you will be further away on the same lens, so this time, the depth of field will bigger due to the greater distance from the subject.

f stops are a ratio of the focal length, and like focal length, they are usually noted down on camera lenses as FF equivalents. The 15mm f2.4 on the ASP-C will behave like a 24mm f3.5 lens in terms of framing and DOF, but the light intensity, which will be that of an f2.4 lens. That’s why even when cameras write down the equivalent 35mm focal length (say the iPhone’s 26mm wide camera) the aperture is still written down as a function of the lens, but obviously the f1.6 lens on my phone has much less DOF than the f2.0 on my Fuji.

From the f/3.5-5.6 18-55mm kit lens to the f2.4 15mm you will get more DOF though. I was just pointing it out because reviews will be fullframe images which will make it look smoother (and wider) than it will on your cropped camera.
 

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Sure thing.
I can most certainly use flash in most of the locations, it's just that I don't have an external flash yet. The onboard doesn't work well at all.
I've had to shoot 2 engagements and a few nightclub sessions recently.
I end up deleting half the photos and spend to much time on post-processing to fix small issues that wouldn't have been a problem if there was enough light.
There is a technique for using a flash with a long shutter that still gets a frozen image with minimal motion blur, I forgot what it was called. But basically, you can keep the shutter open longer and have the flash fire on the second curtain if I am not mistaken, keeping your ISO relatively low.

I have used it with shutter speeds of well over 30 seconds, but a friend uses it in nightclubs with a 1/40 shutter or so. The idea is that the dark contrasts so much with your foreground/subject getting lit up that you still get a small amount of detail from the dark background, but since it's out of focus motion blur is not as noticeable. The flash essentially sends a 1/200 equivalent exposure to the sensor, so you get to "freeze" your subject.

You can do light painting and fire the flash at the end to light up your scene and show the artist, all in a single exposure. I lost(actually I just deleted them all) of the exposures I have done doing this so can't really show you. I can try to take one tonight if you want?
 

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There is a technique for using a flash with a long shutter that still gets a frozen image with minimal motion blur, I forgot what it was called. But basically, you can keep the shutter open longer and have the flash fire on the second curtain if I am not mistaken, keeping your ISO relatively low.

I have used it with shutter speeds of well over 30 seconds, but a friend uses it in nightclubs with a 1/40 shutter or so. The idea is that the dark contrasts so much with your foreground/subject getting lit up that you still get a small amount of detail from the dark background, but since it's out of focus motion blur is not as noticeable. The flash essentially sends a 1/200 equivalent exposure to the sensor, so you get to "freeze" your subject.

You can do light painting and fire the flash at the end to light up your scene and show the artist, all in a single exposure. I lost(actually I just deleted them all) of the exposures I have done doing this so can't really show you. I can try to take one tonight if you want?
I'll do a bit of research and practice this, thanks for letting me know about it.
It's just the flash on my camera makes an ugly harsh white light instead of the softer light you can get from an external flash swiveled upwards.

Either I must get that right or upgrade my cam.

I bought this thing in October wanting to test out my skills and see if I'd like it as a hobby.
I've learned a lot in a few months and think I'm ready to take the plunge and buy a proper camera.

By the sounds of it Fuji is a good idea?
 

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I'll do a bit of research and practice this, thanks for letting me know about it.
It's just the flash on my camera makes an ugly harsh white light instead of the softer light you can get from an external flash swiveled upwards.

Either I must get that right or upgrade my cam.

I bought this thing in October wanting to test out my skills and see if I'd like it as a hobby.
I've learned a lot in a few months and think I'm ready to take the plunge and buy a proper camera.

By the sounds of it Fuji is a good idea?
You can make a diffuser that slides over your popup flash with some cardboard and thin tissue paper(you can even do different colors). Line the inside with white paper or shiny tinfoil.

Buying a decent flash will be more affordable and probably better in the long run since the top-tier bodies do not include even a pop-up flash. Just make sure that you can use it off-body too.

You will find that the crop sensors can go a long way, many pros use them or at least have them as backups.

You should check if your body can act as a Master to another flash, if so, then a Voeloon Flash or Canon(with slave function) equivalent at around R2500 should greatly improve your kit. Otherwise, you can grab a set of flash triggers and a dirt-cheap flash with a hot-shoe stand. I would recommend you do get a flash with TTL support though, for events that have inconsistent lighting.

If you fork out big money for bodies, Sony, Fuji, and Canon are all great options, but Canon by far has the largest second-hand market of lenses. Nikon, I have not used much, I dislike their interface.

You should also check what kind of adapters there are available. You can adapt other lenses to your body relatively easily, but adapters that allow for aperture control and/or autofocus can get pricey.

I also like Olympus, but it's a 2x crop factor, small body though and tiny lenses, and even the cheaper bodies tend to have IBIS, so you do not have to drop tons of cash on stabilized lenses.
 

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You will find that the crop sensors can go a long way, many pros use them or at least have them as backups.
That's a confidence boost, perhaps I won't go for a big upgrade then, maybe just 1 or 2 models up to increase resolution.

You can make a diffuser that slides over your popup flash with some cardboard and thin tissue paper(you can even do different colors). Line the inside with white paper or shiny tinfoil.

Buying a decent flash will be more affordable and probably better in the long run since the top-tier bodies do not include even a pop-up flash. Just make sure that you can use it off-body too.
Thank you, I'll start this weekend testing some homemade diffusers.
Will look into getting an off-body flash later.
 

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