DDR4 5000+ for dirt cheap - KLEVV DDR4 3600 OC's like mad [Preview]

[Gouhan]

Hello Champions of Carb

Here's another set I was fortunate enough to come across and wow, it is easily the best overclocking DRAM kit I've come across. That is if you factor in the price.

DDR4 3600 to DDR4 5066 is no joke and don't be afraid of the Voltage. All DDR4 5000+ kits are rated for 1.6V be they b-die or as most are Hynix DJR, like this set. Naturally just the IC alone won't tell you much, there are different revisions and just bins of the same IC. Many of us have come across disappointing B-die. The variance in DJR isn't that large it seems. Yes the better bins will go into DDR4 3866+ kits but even with this dirt cheap memory with DJR, they should all be able to do this easily (like super easy on Z590)

Yes, locally these are only available in what is the equivalent of Mordor (ET), but that aside, this is fantastic memory for the price. I'll review the DDR4 4000 version instead, which is about R2,400 instead of this R2,100 or so.

Either way, if you have a capable board (including AMD platform) or just any average to good Z590 board, you can do this too.

Pic above id 5,333 but you need 1.7V for that. Still okay to use, but I know many would freak out with that voltage, but it's ok, it really is.
Anyway awesome mems these.

 

[dainluke]

Hello Champions of Carb

Here's another set I was fortunate enough to come across and wow, it is easily the best overclocking DRAM kit I've come across. That is if you factor in the price.

DDR4 3600 to DDR4 5066 is no joke and don't be afraid of the Voltage. All DDR4 5000+ kits are rated for 1.6V be they b-die or as most are Hynix DJR, like this set. Naturally just the IC alone won't tell you much, there are different revisions and just bins of the same IC. Many of us have come across disappointing B-die. The variance in DJR isn't that large it seems. Yes the better bins will go into DDR4 3866+ kits but even with this dirt cheap memory with DJR, they should all be able to do this easily (like super easy on Z590)

Yes, locally these are only available in what is the equivalent of Mordor (ET), but that aside, this is fantastic memory for the price. I'll review the DDR4 4000 version instead, which is about R2,400 instead of this R2,100 or so.

Either way, if you have a capable board (including AMD platform) or just any average to good Z590 board, you can do this too.

View attachment 60839

Pic above id 5,333 but you need 1.7V for that. Still okay to use, but I know many would freak out with that voltage, but it's ok, it really is.
Anyway awesome mems these.

If I may ask (feel free to ignore me), what would you personally view as relatively safe for 24/7 use? Some of these 5k+ kits definitely require 1.7+ for sure to be usable, do you reckon 1.7 long term could be a major issue?

 

[Gouhan]

If I may ask (feel free to ignore me), what would you personally view as relatively safe for 24/7 use? Some of these 5k+ kits definitely require 1.7+ for sure to be usable, do you reckon 1.7 long term could be a major issue?

LOL, dude why would I ignore you? 😄
You're right, all of these 5G+ kits need 1.6V or more
As to what's safe on DJR 1.6~1.65V is definitely 24/7 safe. 1.7V isn't much of an issue at all and here's part of the reason why. The tolerances for ICs are largely to do with the manufacturing process, rather than the DRAM type (as in DDR/DDR2/DDR3/DDR4 etc.)
Many of the ICs used on DDR4 kits are made on the same 2Xnm process that was producing DDR3 memory, which if you recall was initially a 1.65V spec, then later moved down to 1.5V.

The JEDEC spec states that DDR4 should be able to tolerate (doesn't mean stable), up to 1.9V or just over.

So I'd say, for me even 1.75V is fine, or better yet 200mV up from the highest frequency kit using identical ICs. In this case, the highest bin DJR uses 1.6V, so 200mV over that would be 1.8V, but there's no scaling at this point, at least from the IC's I've had (B-die being difficult after 1.75V as well, needing max mem etc). SO I'd say in this case, 1.75V is max for 24/7 but you really don't need more than the normal* 1.6V to do 5000+.

Hope that helps, and isn't' just waffle

 

[∀Z‾soʇɐuɐɥ┴]

@Gouhan I need you to come down to Cpt to come play with my b-die Trident Z's and make them not so lazy...

 

[dainluke]

LOL, dude why would I ignore you? 😄
You're right, all of these 5G+ kits need 1.6V or more
As to what's safe on DJR 1.6~1.65V is definitely 24/7 safe. 1.7V isn't much of an issue at all and here's part of the reason why. The tolerances for ICs are largely to do with the manufacturing process, rather than the DRAM type (as in DDR/DDR2/DDR3/DDR4 etc.)
Many of the ICs used on DDR4 kits are made on the same 2Xnm process that was producing DDR3 memory, which if you recall was initially a 1.65V spec, then later moved down to 1.5V.

The JEDEC spec states that DDR4 should be able to tolerate (doesn't mean stable), up to 1.9V or just over.

So I'd say, for me even 1.75V is fine, or better yet 200mV up from the highest frequency kit using identical ICs. In this case, the highest bin DJR uses 1.6V, so 200mV over that would be 1.8V, but there's no scaling at this point, at least from the IC's I've had (B-die being difficult after 1.75V as well, needing max mem etc). SO I'd say in this case, 1.75V is max for 24/7 but you really don't need more than the normal* 1.6V to do 5000+.

Hope that helps, and isn't' just waffle

No that definitely helps. I actually got into PC gaming toward the end of the DDR3 life cycle and only caught onto RAM OCing early last year. I recall DDR3 running at higher base voltages but I didn’t know anything about some of the DDR4 kits being manufactured on the same process.

I sort-of had a hunch that it was mainly IC related because some ICs don’t scale at all well with voltage, and you almost never see them binned at high voltages.

Part of why I asked is because I recently got a hold of Micron Rev B’s and I’m struggling to even get into Windows at over 5000MHz. The only YouTuber I’ve seen make videos on this stuff happens to be Buildzoid who I watch quite often, but even he was running them at 1.7+ for the vast majority of his play-testing.

By that point I kinda assumed there was no way I could daily them at anywhere close to 5000, so I settled on tightening up a sub-4000 profile to use at 1:1:1 on Ryzen.

I’m actually super keen to test these out on Intel potentially, but it’s kinda bleak that Alder Lake is DDR5. Not sure if they’ll do both 4 and 5, but I really wouldn’t mind if an 11900K popped up on here haha.

Just to note: I wasn’t sure if these threads were meant to be replied 😂. I really do appreciate the response though.

 

[Gouhan]

@Gouhan I need you to come down to Cpt to come play with my b-die Trident Z's and make them not so lazy...

What bin or SKU rather do you have of the TRIDENT Z?
Cause that determines not only the IC but the quality of the IC.
There's plenty of info on the net, but if I can help out in anyway just let me know or whatever. I'll do what I can

 

[Gouhan]

No that definitely helps. I actually got into PC gaming toward the end of the DDR3 life cycle and only caught onto RAM OCing early last year. I recall DDR3 running at higher base voltages but I didn’t know anything about some of the DDR4 kits being manufactured on the same process.

I sort-of had a hunch that it was mainly IC related because some ICs don’t scale at all well with voltage, and you almost never see them binned at high voltages.

Part of why I asked is because I recently got a hold of Micron Rev B’s and I’m struggling to even get into Windows at over 5000MHz. The only YouTuber I’ve seen make videos on this stuff happens to be Buildzoid who I watch quite often, but even he was running them at 1.7+ for the vast majority of his play-testing.

By that point I kinda assumed there was no way I could daily them at anywhere close to 5000, so I settled on tightening up a sub-4000 profile to use at 1:1:1 on Ryzen.

I’m actually super keen to test these out on Intel potentially, but it’s kinda bleak that Alder Lake is DDR5. Not sure if they’ll do both 4 and 5, but I really wouldn’t mind if an 11900K popped up on here haha.

Just to note: I wasn’t sure if these threads were meant to be replied 😂. I really do appreciate the response though.

Funny you should say that, I've no RevB only sub standard E-die and while 5000 was possible on Ryzen, on Intel Z590 it's a no no, the memory just won't do it. While we all know the later Micron ICs do 5G, seems like they don't often do it as much as the Hynix ICs. So I understand how most DRAM vendors, go with the Hynix ICs

Buildzoid is right to be 1.7V+ as all ICs at this sort of transaction rate, are 1.6V+ and to get those awesome C18/C17 DDR4 5000+ speeds we need the juice.

For you 5900X you can definitely play with the higher mem frequencies, to gain performance. You can make up for not running 1:1 as well at say 4800. Your RevB should be good for a low CAS value, the others maybe not so much, but there's no reason you can't run C18 on these at 4800. In which case you can just tune the sub timings and turn of TSME to get monstrous bandwidth.

What you say about Alder Lake is partially true, there are 100% going to be Z690 boards with DDR4 support. The question is how different is the IMC on ADL-S vs on RKL-S? I wouldn't imagine Intel got rid of the half rate Gear2 mode and if that's the case you should be able to do the same if not better on Z690 DDR4 boards (if only because DDR5 needs significantly tighter tolerances) .

History repeats itself here, where DDR4 5000+ is common as there's at least 4 ICs that can do this speed. But happens at a time when DDR5 starting at 4800+ (the cheap kits) and due in 3 months. (That said we must all re-learn how to tune memory as DDR5 is in many ways a lot different from previous iterations)

As for the threads, yes do reply comment, ask whatever. They are meant for these sorts of discussions and sharing. I will try to make it more obvious in future, thanks for highlighting this to me.

 

[∀Z‾soʇɐuɐɥ┴]

What bin or SKU rather do you have of the TRIDENT Z?
Cause that determines not only the IC but the quality of the IC.
There's plenty of info on the net, but if I can help out in anyway just let me know or whatever. I'll do what I can

WO_F4-3200C16Q-64GTZR

 

[dainluke]

Funny you should say that, I've no RevB only sub standard E-die and while 5000 was possible on Ryzen, on Intel Z590 it's a no no, the memory just won't do it. While we all know the later Micron ICs do 5G, seems like they don't often do it as much as the Hynix ICs. So I understand how most DRAM vendors, go with the Hynix ICs

Buildzoid is right to be 1.7V+ as all ICs at this sort of transaction rate, are 1.6V+ and to get those awesome C18/C17 DDR4 5000+ speeds we need the juice.

For you 5900X you can definitely play with the higher mem frequencies, to gain performance. You can make up for not running 1:1 as well at say 4800. Your RevB should be good for a low CAS value, the others maybe not so much, but there's no reason you can't run C18 on these at 4800. In which case you can just tune the sub timings and turn of TSME to get monstrous bandwidth.

What you say about Alder Lake is partially true, there are 100% going to be Z690 boards with DDR4 support. The question is how different is the IMC on ADL-S vs on RKL-S? I wouldn't imagine Intel got rid of the half rate Gear2 mode and if that's the case you should be able to do the same if not better on Z690 DDR4 boards (if only because DDR5 needs significantly tighter tolerances) .

History repeats itself here, where DDR4 5000+ is common as there's at least 4 ICs that can do this speed. But happens at a time when DDR5 starting at 4800+ (the cheap kits) and due in 3 months. (That said we must all re-learn how to tune memory as DDR5 is in many ways a lot different from previous iterations)

As for the threads, yes do reply comment, ask whatever. They are meant for these sorts of discussions and sharing. I will try to make it more obvious in future, thanks for highlighting this to me.

I had the impression that Rocket Lake had decent IMCs. I haven’t had a chance to play with any of those CPUs unfortunately, and there just isn’t much coverage online (none that I came across readily 😂), but I had 4800 C18 in the back of my mind. It just felt a bit underwhelming compared to what they’re rated for.

I actually want to try and grab a B550 Master sometime soon but I can’t quite afford the upgrade just yet. I’m wondering by this point whether my particular CPU has a poor IMC, or if it just doesn’t like 5000MHz+. I’m tempted to try out something silly like 4800 C16.

I struggle to believe that Buildzoid was managing 5000 C18 with slightly less binned Rev B and with a 3600, on the same board I own. Logically I think it’s got to be just the IMC topping out somewhere in the high 4000s. In terms of stuff like 3800 C13, 4000 C14; I’ve had no issues booting.

 

[Gouhan]

I had the impression that Rocket Lake had decent IMCs. I haven’t had a chance to play with any of those CPUs unfortunately, and there just isn’t much coverage online (none that I came across readily 😂), but I had 4800 C18 in the back of my mind. It just felt a bit underwhelming compared to what they’re rated for.

I actually want to try and grab a B550 Master sometime soon but I can’t quite afford the upgrade just yet. I’m wondering by this point whether my particular CPU has a poor IMC, or if it just doesn’t like 5000MHz+. I’m tempted to try out something silly like 4800 C16.

I struggle to believe that Buildzoid was managing 5000 C18 with slightly less binned Rev B and with a 3600, on the same board I own. Logically I think it’s got to be just the IMC topping out somewhere in the high 4000s. In terms of stuff like 3800 C13, 4000 C14; I’ve had no issues booting.

The unify is a beast of a board so it is definitely good for 5G+.
I think in your case its a timings issue is anything. However you should be able to at least POST 5000 without issues at all. I've no relationship with Crucial/Micron so I can't even get that set you use to find out how far it'll go on an AMD platform.
That said I don't think you need a new motherboard, the one you have has the capabilities to go the distance.

That Buildzoid can hit C18 on a lower bin speaks directly to it being DRAM timings. Have you tried different DIMM order? Also have you tried setting manual termination voltage? I saw it can have a huge difference between no post and 100% HCI pass.

 

[Gouhan]

WO_F4-3200C16Q-64GTZR

Oh you have 16GB sticks. Ok that is a little but trickier especially on AMD. That said you should still be able to do 3600 same timings.

 

[dainluke]

The unify is a beast of a board so it is definitely good for 5G+.
I think in your case its a timings issue is anything. However you should be able to at least POST 5000 without issues at all. I've no relationship with Crucial/Micron so I can't even get that set you use to find out how far it'll go on an AMD platform.
That said I don't think you need a new motherboard, the one you have has the capabilities to go the distance.

That Buildzoid can hit C18 on a lower bin speaks directly to it being DRAM timings. Have you tried different DIMM order? Also have you tried setting manual termination voltage? I saw it can have a huge difference between no post and 100% HCI pass.

I actually changed the signature prematurely because it usually means upgrades work out 😂. I actually still have my Tomahawk. I was deciding between the Unify and a B550 Master, but opted for the Unify. I think with the Unify I can do 5000.

From what I saw, the Tomahawk that he used and pretty much any other MSI BIOS doesn’t give you easy access to the termination voltage (at least I can’t find it), and I don’t know if he changed it when using any of his X570 MSI boards. I definitely would’ve adjusted it if I had the B550 Master.

I’ll be getting the Unify tomorrow but I don’t think I can devote any more time to OCing just yet, so I’ll give that a shot in a few weeks time. In terms of DIMM order, I swapped them around a bunch of times but it didn’t make much difference. I used his exact timings to attempt POST’ing on the Tomahawk though, just to be able to set a baseline, but that didn’t work out yesterday.

 

[∀Z‾soʇɐuɐɥ┴]

Oh you have 16GB sticks. Ok that is a little but trickier especially on AMD. That said you should still be able to do 3600 same timings.

I can do 3600Mhz with default CL18 timings, but not with the XMP timings.
XMP timings anything above 3400 causes refusal to boot.

 

[dainluke]

I can do 3600Mhz with default CL18 timings, but not with the XMP timings.
XMP timings anything above 3400 causes refusal to boot.

Funnily enough, on buildzoid's personal rig update video, he says that dual rank on the Aorus Xtreme is hard. I definitely think Gouhan is onto something though. I had a dual-rank kit previously, and I was able to do 3600 16-17-17-17-36-1T GDM @ 1.45V. I had SoC at 1.15V with VDDC, IOD, and CCD at 1.1V respectively. The secondaries were kinda like slightly loosened common B-Die secondaries. This was a 3466 C16 kit, but it was mega-binned B-Die. I'd say it's probably worth playing with stuff like ProcODT, ClkDrvStr and the termination voltage, but more specifically the SoC, CCD, and IOD need to be generous for dual-rank. With my current RAM I'm doing 1.2V SoC, to be honest.

You do really important work though, so I really don't know if it would be worth RAM OCing. I OC RAM because if on the odd chance I error out, the absolute worst thing I could be doing is writing an essay or something like that (I save after every sentence or two anyway), but for your use case, it may just not be worth the cost of your work. I would also argue you're better off just buying a 32-64GB kit of 3600 C16 TridentZ Neo's because the cost compared to the travesty of crashing during your work is basically not even worth worrying about.

I am not opposed to coming over to you one day if you ever need me to, but RAM OCing is a pretty long affair if you want to be 24/7 stable. It took me like 14 hours yesterday until I eventually settled on the current profile I'm using and was able to get it to 400% in HCI. At 400 I generally call it a day and a job well done. I'm yet to see a 400% HCI OC BSOD, but I mean anything could happen. Also, one thing to note: if you ever update your BIOS, your RAM OC might no longer be stable, this is especially important because again, you do very important work on your desktop.

 

[SILTECH786]

Wonderfull thread @Gouhan I see @Moemfie_ZA requires me to spend money here soon .

 

[∀Z‾soʇɐuɐɥ┴]

Funnily enough, on buildzoid's personal rig update video, he says that dual rank on the Aorus Xtreme is hard. I definitely think Gouhan is onto something though. I had a dual-rank kit previously, and I was able to do 3600 16-17-17-17-36-1T GDM @ 1.45V. I had SoC at 1.15V with VDDC, IOD, and CCD at 1.1V respectively. The secondaries were kinda like slightly loosened common B-Die secondaries. This was a 3466 C16 kit, but it was mega-binned B-Die. I'd say it's probably worth playing with stuff like ProcODT, ClkDrvStr and the termination voltage, but more specifically the SoC, CCD, and IOD need to be generous for dual-rank. With my current RAM I'm doing 1.2V SoC, to be honest.

You do really important work though, so I really don't know if it would be worth RAM OCing. I OC RAM because if on the odd chance I error out, the absolute worst thing I could be doing is writing an essay or something like that (I save after every sentence or two anyway), but for your use case, it may just not be worth the cost of your work. I would also argue you're better off just buying a 32-64GB kit of 3600 C16 TridentZ Neo's because the cost compared to the travesty of crashing during your work is basically not even worth worrying about.

I am not opposed to coming over to you one day if you ever need me to, but RAM OCing is a pretty long affair if you want to be 24/7 stable. It took me like 14 hours yesterday until I eventually settled on the current profile I'm using and was able to get it to 400% in HCI. At 400 I generally call it a day and a job well done. I'm yet to see a 400% HCI OC BSOD, but I mean anything could happen. Also, one thing to note: if you ever update your BIOS, your RAM OC might no longer be stable, this is especially important because again, you do very important work on your desktop.

Tried Neo's (3600Mhz C16's if I remember correctly) and pc just outright refused to work with it with xmp enabled.
It would just BSOD just after booting into windows.
Went back to Trident Z RGB's and it works, albeit 3200Mhz C16.

 

[dainluke]

Tried Neo's (3600Mhz C16's if I remember correctly) and pc just outright refused to work with it with xmp enabled.
It would just BSOD just after booting into windows.
Went back to Trident Z RGB's and it works, albeit 3200Mhz C16.

Ahh shucks. Yeah, that sounds like exactly what I was experiencing with my dual-rank kit when I even tried to run them with a tried and tested profile I used on Intel. Ryzen dual-rank with high freq and tight timings just is that difficult to stabilize, unfortunately. If I had to guess why, I'd guess it's down to the daisy chain on the Aorus Xtreme just not being good, paired with perhaps you just not having the best of CPU IMCs. However, all hope is not lost, it just would require possibly a change of board, or someone who's good at RAM OCing to sit and tweak it, and there are a lot of guys on Carb who could probably guide you (Gouhan definitely being one of them).

 

[ChickenWings217]

my 2133s to the moon ?

 

[Gouhan]

OP updated with video.