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Clear my mind on Inverters

Reegz

Reegz

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Good people of said forum :)

I need some help here please. So, I thought I had a pretty fair understanding of inverters right up until I set out to buy one.

Basic needs right now:-
  • Take power from grid or battery array
  • Extend to add PV input later
  • Charge battery from either grid or PV when available
  • Be able to blend PV and battery/grid based on load instead of switching to Grid/Battery only
  • Monitoring via WiFi
  • Parallel capability not needed now
  • One will be 3kva and the other 5kva

I am looking to spend between R12 to R15k per inverter at this time. Will be paired with 48v batteries.

From my "research" I was keen on the Axpert King II, but the most recent info I've read on it it seems like it cannot blend power streams. Not sure if this is correct but that has swayed me away from it. Hence, I now find myself here asking you lot for some input please.

I would like to use either Hubble or Dyness batteries (or if I'm totally broke I'm stealing batteries from Citi Golfs).

I'm partial to brands that have a bit of presence in the country and not just the random crap every scalper is looking to flog off.
 
Have a look at the kodak range,

powerforum-store.co.za

Inverters

Buy solar inverters, Hybrid Inverter 5kw and 10kw Inverter in south Africa. We have Growatt, EasySolar, ATESS, and other solar Inverter at competitive prices. Shop Now!
powerforum-store.co.za
 
You can look at the luxpower range. Only thing it can’t do is feedback to non essential loads when grid is available which a true hybrid like the deye sunsynk can. Fits in your budget too.
Reegz said:
Good people of said forum :)

I need some help here please. So, I thought I had a pretty fair understanding of inverters right up until I set out to buy one.

Basic needs right now:-
  • Take power from grid or battery array
  • Extend to add PV input later
  • Charge battery from either grid or PV when available
  • Be able to blend PV and battery/grid based on load instead of switching to Grid/Battery only
  • Monitoring via WiFi
  • Parallel capability not needed now
  • One will be 3kva and the other 5kva

I am looking to spend between R12 to R15k per inverter at this time. Will be paired with 48v batteries.

From my "research" I was keen on the Axpert King II, but the most recent info I've read on it it seems like it cannot blend power streams. Not sure if this is correct but that has swayed me away from it. Hence, I now find myself here asking you lot for some input please.

I would like to use either Hubble or Dyness batteries (or if I'm totally broke I'm stealing batteries from Citi Golfs).

I'm partial to brands that have a bit of presence in the country and not just the random crap every scalper is looking to flog off.
Click to expand...
You can look at the luxpower range. Only thing it can’t do is feedback to non essential loads when grid is available which a true hybrid like the deye sunsynk can. Fits in your budget too.
 
KURT_COCAIN said:
Have a look at the kodak range,

powerforum-store.co.za

Inverters

Buy solar inverters, Hybrid Inverter 5kw and 10kw Inverter in south Africa. We have Growatt, EasySolar, ATESS, and other solar Inverter at competitive prices. Shop Now!
powerforum-store.co.za
Click to expand...

Kodac, Mecer, RCT et al are all Voltronic products. The Voltronic range is pretty big with slight variances between the models and versions. Hence, my confusion.

I went down the GroWatt ES5000 path earlier today but that's confused me just as much on the blending question.
 
Confucius said:
You can look at the luxpower range. Only thing it can’t do is feedback to non essential loads when grid is available which a true hybrid like the deye sunsynk can. Fits in your budget too.

You can look at the luxpower range. Only thing it can’t do is feedback to non essential loads when grid is available which a true hybrid like the deye sunsynk can. Fits in your budget too.
Click to expand...
Would this be the LuxPower SNA5000?
 
Reegz said:
Kodac, Mecer, RCT et al are all Voltronic products. The Voltronic range is pretty big with slight variances between the models and versions. Hence, my confusion.

I went down the GroWatt ES5000 path earlier today but that's confused me just as much on the blending question.
Click to expand...
Listen to @Confucius solar is his hobby basically.
 
Reegz said:
Would this be the LuxPower SNA5000?
Click to expand...
Yip

I installed one for my sister a few weeks ago and it works well. The fan is a little loud though when charging. I used a Volta battery cos it was all I could find. It’s 1C so 1 battery was fine.
 
Confucius said:
Yip

I installed one for my sister a few weeks ago and it works well. The fan is a little loud though when charging. I used a Volta battery cos it was all I could find. It’s 1C so 1 battery was fine.
Click to expand...
Tell @Reegz about your system that you installed.
 
Qui_Illustrati said:
Spend the little more and rather go Deye or Sunsynk. It's definitely worth the little extra.
Click to expand...
Sunsynk is double the price. Although I have 2 of them, I have stopped recommending them due to the poor after sales service / support.

The only thing that the Luxpower doesn’t do is feed back to non essentials which wasn’t on his list of requirements.
 
stock should be available soon. Not sure what the new price will be though.

Will let you know.
 
I'd argue the feedback to non essentials should be a mandatory option for folks going solar or folks should make it a must have option. It's a feature that provides way more value than the contextually higher cost difference to the bottom of the barrel inverter options that don't have the feature.

There are other options I'd actually recommend over Sunsynk and Deye, not very mainstream but more cost effective and just as capable if not more capable options. In my humble opinion.

Solis proves time and again I made the right choice. I also have a hybrid Solax that is wired in and in a sort of warm standby in the event the Solis somehow goes tits up.

Ran the gamut with Axperts, Growatts and other Voltronic type inverters and I reckon they're all horrible choices.
 
Confucius said:
stock should be available soon. Not sure what the new price will be though.

Will let you know.
Click to expand...
giphy.gif
 
Confucius said:
Sunsynk is double the price. Although I have 2 of them, I have stopped recommending them due to the poor after sales service / support.

The only thing that the Luxpower doesn’t do is feed back to non essentials which wasn’t on his list of requirements.
Click to expand...
They also have the weirdest software glitches with a schlep of a pain in the arse to fix. Helped a friend of mine with his thesis on RS485 control. Had an 8.8kW unit at the uni that would stop updating load values once it was connected. This was over the bus and on the display unless you fidgeted with some other update value. Hell of a time. Also firmware updates are only available through some roundabout signing up. But hey, when it works, it works well.
 
Confucius said:
Yip

I installed one for my sister a few weeks ago and it works well. The fan is a little loud though when charging. I used a Volta battery cos it was all I could find. It’s 1C so 1 battery was fine.
Click to expand...

Ok cool cool. Now let's work off this.

I understand that it cannot feed into grid (screw eksdom) and that it cannot feed "extra PV power" through to secondary loads - I'm fine with this if my understanding is correct.

I see all sites make explicit mention of it and the comparable GroWatt model as being off-grid inverters only. I'd like to get clarity on what that means.

Does it mean I need to split the main power line BEFORE the inverter with the line that feeds the primary load going through the inverter and the other directly to the DB and feeding the secondary load. The output from the Inverter will then go through to the primary load only.

I assume then that the inverter's logic will kick in when the grid dies to start feeding from PV, or in my case, the battery.

Am I on the right path somewhat?
 
Nssa said:
They also have the weirdest software glitches with a schlep of a pain in the arse to fix. Helped a friend of mine with his thesis on RS485 control. Had an 8.8kW unit at the uni that would stop updating load values once it was connected. This was over the bus and on the display unless you fidgeted with some other update value. Hell of a time. Also firmware updates are only available through some roundabout signing up. But hey, when it works, it works well.
Click to expand...
Which inverter are you talking about sunsynk or luxpower. I have my Sunsynk’s interfaced with home assistant through node red over rs485. Much better than the sunsynk app.
 
Confucius said:
Which inverter are you talking about sunsynk or luxpower. I have my Sunsynk’s interfaced with home assistant through node red over rs485. Much better than the sunsynk app.
Click to expand...
Sunsynk 8.8kw hybrid unit to be specific. The 5kW one worked without a hitch. Just a strange firmware issue. Yeah modbus is much better than the wifi in updating. You can also set the parameters which is lovely. Just dislike that they make upgrading the firmware so difficult.
 
Qui_Illustrati said:
I'd argue the feedback to non essentials should be a mandatory option for folks going solar or folks should make it a must have option. It's a feature that provides way more value than the contextually higher cost difference to the bottom of the barrel inverter options that don't have the feature.

There are other options I'd actually recommend over Sunsynk and Deye, not very mainstream but more cost effective and just as capable if not more capable options. In my humble opinion.

Solis proves time and again I made the right choice. I also have a hybrid Solax that is wired in and in a sort of warm standby in the event the Solis somehow goes tits up.

Ran the gamut with Axperts, Growatts and other Voltronic type inverters and I reckon they're all horrible choices.
Click to expand...

I hear you on the feedback to secondary loads and with things being different, I would have made this a priority.

As it stands, the complex I'm in is pretty iffy on panels. Also, the area ain't the best so not sure I want to over-invest at this time. I really just need the dang lights on so the entire family can be productive during the ever-increasing LS hours.
 
Reegz said:
Ok cool cool. Now let's work off this.

I understand that it cannot feed into grid (screw eksdom) and that it cannot feed "extra PV power" through to secondary loads - I'm fine with this if my understanding is correct.

I see all sites make explicit mention of it and the comparable GroWatt model as being off-grid inverters only. I'd like to get clarity on what that means.

Does it mean I need to split the main power line BEFORE the inverter with the line that feeds the primary load going through the inverter and the other directly to the DB and feeding the secondary load. The output from the Inverter will then go through to the primary load only.

I assume then that the inverter's logic will kick in when the grid dies to start feeding from PV, or in my case, the battery.

Am I on the right path somewhat?
Click to expand...
Hmm. Not really following what you are saying.

Hybrid, off grid, blending are all terms that have different meaning depending on who you speak to and where in the country you are.

People use off grid to market inverters that are not NRS approved and should not be connected in the way that 90/95% of them are used.

The extreme meaning would be that it is totally isolated from the grid as a standalone unit with batteries and solar.

The way I installed it was to use an external change over switch. When grid is available, the batteries are charged but the output of the inverter is isolated. When grid fails, the output of the inverter then powers the house through the changeover. It’s a 5kw inverter and powers the whole house. There is a gas geyser and gas stove but if I just connected everything through the inverter permanently, there is a risk that when for example an iron, microwave, hairdryer are used at the same time, it will overload the inverter.

The way most people install though is to split the circuits into essential and non essential loads. You then create a separate db with all your essential loads and this db is powered from the inverter. In this case, the inverter is powered from the non essential db and this is used to charge the battery. If you have solar, then the solar is used to charge the battery and power your essential loads during the day. When grid fails, the inverter still powers your loads from solar and / or battery.

Factor about 5k for sundries that you will need for the inverter battery install including circuit breakers, changeover, cable, db, surge protectors, etc. For solar, you then need additional fuses, isolators, surge protectors, earth spike, etc.
 
Reegz said:
really just need the dang lights
Click to expand...
That’s a lot to spend for just lights. Magneto rechargeable lights will be much cheaper. A 5kw luxpower inverter with 5kwh battery with an install done without shortcuts is around 45-50k

Inverter 13k
Battery 25k
Sundries 5k,
Installation + coc 5-10k
 
Nssa said:
Sunsynk 8.8kw hybrid unit to be specific. The 5kW one worked without a hitch. Just a strange firmware issue. Yeah modbus is much better than the wifi in updating. You can also set the parameters which is lovely. Just dislike that they make upgrading the firmware so difficult.
Click to expand...
Firmware updates are the only thing that try to do when there’s an issue. There are installer groups where you can just send a picture of the dongle and ask them to update the firmware. They can also share the firmware and you can do it manually.
 
Confucius said:
That’s a lot to spend for just lights. Magneto rechargeable lights will be much cheaper. A 5kw luxpower inverter with 5kwh battery with an install done without shortcuts is around 45-50k

Inverter 13k
Battery 25k
Sundries 5k,
Installation + coc 5-10k
Click to expand...

Yeah was being a bit light (pun intended) when saying lights only.

Already have plenty of these rechargeable lights around the house, including the bulbs with their own batteries.

Realistically, it's about a better quality of life. I'm fine spending the R50k per installation; I just want to be clear about what trade-offs I'm making so that I don't act as surprised at Squirrel when I find out later that I have limited expansion options.
 
Confucius said:
Hmm. Not really following what you are saying.

Hybrid, off grid, blending are all terms that have different meaning depending on who you speak to and where in the country you are.

People use off grid to market inverters that are not NRS approved and should not be connected in the way that 90/95% of them are used.

The extreme meaning would be that it is totally isolated from the grid as a standalone unit with batteries and solar.

The way I installed it was to use an external change over switch. When grid is available, the batteries are charged but the output of the inverter is isolated. When grid fails, the output of the inverter then powers the house through the changeover. It’s a 5kw inverter and powers the whole house. There is a gas geyser and gas stove but if I just connected everything through the inverter permanently, there is a risk that when for example an iron, microwave, hairdryer are used at the same time, it will overload the inverter.

The way most people install though is to split the circuits into essential and non essential loads. You then create a separate db with all your essential loads and this db is powered from the inverter. In this case, the inverter is powered from the non essential db and this is used to charge the battery. If you have solar, then the solar is used to charge the battery and power your essential loads during the day. When grid fails, the inverter still powers your loads from solar and / or battery.

Factor about 5k for sundries that you will need for the inverter battery install including circuit breakers, changeover, cable, db, surge protectors, etc. For solar, you then need additional fuses, isolators, surge protectors, earth spike, etc.
Click to expand...

The below is pretty much what I was asking so thanks for confirming.
The way most people install though is to split the circuits into essential and non essential loads. You then create a separate db with all your essential loads and this db is powered from the inverter. In this case, the inverter is powered from the non essential db and this is used to charge the battery. If you have solar, then the solar is used to charge the battery and power your essential loads during the day. When grid fails, the inverter still powers your loads from solar and / or battery.
Click to expand...

The way I installed it was to use an external change over switch. When grid is available, the batteries are charged but the output of the inverter is isolated. When grid fails, the output of the inverter then powers the house through the changeover. It’s a 5kw inverter and powers the whole house. There is a gas geyser and gas stove but if I just connected everything through the inverter permanently, there is a risk that when for example an iron, microwave, hairdryer are used at the same time, it will overload the inverter.
Click to expand...

I reckon the manual change-over might not be such a bad idea either.
 
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