How is this allowed ??? Racist at the highest level ??,

TheRealRoko said:

Well formulated and food for thought. However I am not convinced that fighting the damages of inequality with more inequality is the answer. I also don't think I am qualified to just declare this and it is true. I imagine we actually need a group of very intelligent people to come together and analyse the possible outcomes of these decisions. From all the different perspectives and then put forward their arguments with why or why not this would/wouldn't be a good idea.

So yea, I get your point, but in the same breath an eye for an eye leaves everyone blind and this doesn't need to be a zero sum game. We can uplift certain groups without bringing down others no?

Also I wouldn't call it 5% discomfort... It isn't just a bit of discomfort, it is an attack on human rights, or what should be human rights. It is a lot more sinister than just a bit of discomfort.

Click to expand...

100%, I agree with you. I'm not defending the policy. It is racist by definition. I'm speaking out more against the discussion in this thread, and the kind of discussion that tends to always happen on this forum. I'm in total disagreement with equality of outcome, and legislating for it. If there is change to be made, it needs to be upliftment from grassroots. We are not investing enough in people. We are investing in shitty policy.

Please keep this thread alive long enough for realkingkam to answer my questions. Have you gone silent on me brother?

We can trade ideas all day long. I totally agree that free education is something we require in South Africa along with many other fair and equal policies, but it is a subject that is will be discussed to futility on this thread as we cannot change that at the moment. For us here today here is my closing argument: What is wrong is wrong. It doesn't matter how you color it, it remains wrong. I agree that there are too many individual factors to assess to ever lay the blame at the feet of a specific race. The past is the past, we cannot change that. But here we are and I think most of us can agree when we say that white people have learned from the error of their ancestors and wish to make a change. I hope that we can somehow reach those who are willing, however few, to build a true rainbow nation together. Its not an ideology, its a lifestyle. We can all stand together and recognize what is wrong in this country of ours. We can all learn from others mistakes and create a better tomorrow for our children. Don't underestimate the power of compassion. We have a just cause and reason for all to come together, let us fight injustice. Let us overthrow what is wrong. It begins at home. The government is corrupt and I wouldn't go as far as to say they are all racist but a lot of them are, a fact which is substantiated by their policies. The same as it was in apartheid. The question is do we want to go down in history being remembered as the ones who sat by idly, the ones who fled, the villain's who tried to drown out those fighting for a just cause or the one's at the forefront fighting for the just cause?

This is my questions to each of you: Who are you and who do you want to be? Who do you want your children to remember you as? What do you want to teach your children? Is the person who believes differently than you or looks different to you any different from you inside, or does s/he feel the same pain and experience the same feelings? Ask yourself these questions and aspire to be that which is better than before.

This is what I hear:

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH



















This is what I want to hear:

Referring back to the original post, do you guys agree that unemployed whites should not be allowed Government Jobs?

Personally I believe that if you demand a change of circumstance then you should take an active part in bringing that change about, even if you cannot make it happen alone.

I do not believe that affirmative action is the ideal way of solving the problem we face and I do not believe it to be just either, but it's not hard for me to see why there are people who believe that it is justified as a manner of fast tracking the restoration of equality. That said, I too believe that education coupled with sustainable job creation and economic growth is the best way to uplift a society.

Holywraith said:

The 5% discomfort you feel today from a government trying to redistribute equity from a history of blatant racism and economic imbalance does not outweigh the 50 odd years of soul-crushing, mandated racism that generations of people had to live through. .

Click to expand...

Why do people always insist the scales have to be balanced? Why can't we just throw the old scales away vowing to never repeat those mistakes again and start something entirely new?

The government's job isn't to redistribute equity, it's to turn the equity it obtains through taxation and other levies into infrastructure and economic growth which creates further equity that can be invested back into the system.
All they've done is moved a limited set of resources around, mostly into their own pockets, instead of creating new resources and moving forward from the past.


It's like still using "the dog ate my homework excuse", once you're 50 years old and school is 30 years behind you. And somehow people still swallow that excuse for the lack of performance. Bad dog. Bad dog damnit. Time to grow up and take responsibility for your shit instead of blaming the dog. Or better yet, don't let the shit occur at all.

Maximums_Rickimus said:

realkingkam My apologies for being rude. You are entitled to your opinion and I do realize that my difference or indifference to your opinion may have resulted in me being angered by your insensitivity to recognizing racism for what it is.

I do however have a few last questions for you:
1. Do you deny that white people are being segregated and discriminated against?
2. Do you deny that white people are being murdered because of the color of their skin?
3. Do you deny that certain politicians are behind the murder and segregation of white people?
4. If your answer yes to either of these questions then please explain to me how it is any different to apartheid?

I would really like to get your opinion on these questions.

I do differ with your opinion that I am unlearned in the history of South Africa. I have spent a lot of time doing research of our history and what people believe to be true is quite different to the truth. Unfortunately the ANC and unfortunately some white people (I am white myself), admittedly, do tend to spread untruths from time to time. Many occurrences that happened during apartheid should not have happened but unfortunately you are way off par with connecting apartheid to genocide. Apartheid never ordered the mass killing of black people. And I do not agree with apartheid at all but facts are facts. What did occur was instances such as the prison riots and if one were to study it closely you would become aware that the whole instance was a result of one trigger happy youngster who fired his gun out of fear. Furthermore many activists were killed during apartheid and were sentenced to prison which was not right but it was never genocide. Do you know that many of these activists also ordered the planting of bombs that killed innocent people during apartheid? Edit: The genocide that did occur was mostly caused by the IFP and ANC (perhaps you need some schooling in history). Please read this link and see that I am not denying that a lot of black people were killed unjustly by white people but more were killed among political differences in the townships itself. LINK.

I do however connect with the pain that the black people have suffered under apartheid. It was wrong and I can only begin to understand what it must have felt like. Unfortunately I must agree that I do not have first hand experience and therefore I dearly sympathies with the people who experienced apartheid and its gruesomeness first hand.

I am thankful that you feel I am your brother as I also feel that you are my brother. I grew up in this country and so have you and we all live in its current circumstances. I would also join you in any constructive circumstance without hesitation.

I beg you to reconsider your stance and open your eyes to what is going on. Undoubtedly you must have experienced oppression and racism at some stage in your life and therefore I appeal to your better judgement and ask you to sympathize with others who are experiencing the same oppression and racism now. Let us stand together against the true evil that haunts this country of ours? Unjust politicians and their actions. Let us not defend their actions and justify it for them. Let us create awareness and beg them to answer for their actions? Let us demand what was promised to all of us. Let us work together to create better communities. Let us work together to suss out those who inspire segregation and racism and destroy them. It is not tied to race, to culture or to religion but to individuals and we need to make it clear that such behavior is wrong and must be accounted for regardless of the color of your skin, religion or beliefs. I believe this much can be achieved as much as Mandela believed it.

Click to expand...

Let me apologise to you for any rudeness you might have felt from my end. Your post above is sensible and I'd like to respond to it in a mature manner. I actually do understand your reactions to many here as being insensitive and do feel for you. But it's not as gloomy as you think it is. I am not saying things are great either.

1. Do you deny that white people are being segregated and discriminated against?

I absolutely agree there is bias in the coproate world and business world to give people of colour and in some cases only black people opportunities. And in almost all instances the best person or company for the job is not chosen. I've gone against this system and pushed agendas which I got hit over the knuckles for, for not obeying the law of the land. Yet I still tried.

White people though are not segregated ... You allowed to practise your speech live where ever you want in this country. Difference now is where you had facilities that were for you only ...anyone can use it. So yes those beaches are allot more packed than they were historically.

Discriminated ... yes ... by labour laws primarily and some tender requirements. But don't for one second think a random black person on the road is looking at you and wanting to kill you ... I could be wrong but you come across as you live in perpetual fear of this conceived idealogy that black people in general hate and want to kill all white people? be open and honest ... Helps with the discussion

2. Do you deny that white people are being murdered because of the color of their skin?

I don't agree with this ... Most murders in this country are off the back of some material gain. I know of black people indian people Asian people who have been victim to crime. I've lost 3 family members because of crime. Yes there are race crimes in South Africa. But to fear monger that every murder against a white person has a racial connection is very incorrect.

There is no genocide. No government has decreed the eradication of any race in this country

Black policeman are more likely to come to the aid of a white/Indian/couloured and even black individual from Sandton than someone from a location. Here is some food for thought. Rich folk get along ... Black white Indian coloured Asian. Maybe because of the nice cars and clothes they have and it something they can talk about. When humans find something they have in common with other, they link up. Race never features ... I tend to find such fear mongering in poorer communities.

3. Do you deny that certain politicians are behind the murder and segregation of white people?

What segregation do you speak of? The EFF has not come knocking on the doors of "oranians" ... They could not care less if they segregated themselves. No one has told or instructed white people to stay in certain suburbs ... Like apartheid has. Yes what Malema says is vile and down right scary singing songs of death to the Boer. And yes there are some people that believe strongly in it.

4. If your answer yes to either of these questions then please explain to me how it is any different to apartheid?

Understand that EE was a means to level the playing field. In theory it made sense. To fast-track the pasts wrong. In practice it ain't working. It's being manipulated by a powerful few to promote and raise "Friends and family". So we end up with instances (and there are lots of them) ... like the CIO from SARS [emoji85]

Truth is and this is fact ... In south Africa corporate senior positions are held primarily by white males. If it is a back person or a person of colour they would be in a non decision making positons like HR. Choose any corporate in SA and this is the truth.

Truth is majority of non black people in this country live good lives. You have a house, a car or two, internet, hot water ... People take these things for granted

Human nature is such: if I don't know it I will kill or exterminate it. What we need as South Africans is spend more time with each other and get to know each other better. I like cars. Have friends of all races because of it ... And I get to know them.better because of it. In the end you'd be surprised we all very similar

Don't be sheltered. Just be open to the fact that people are people. Their convictions bound by circumstance and not their skin colour

Mast3rBlast3r said:

Why do people always insist the scales have to be balanced? Why can't we just throw the old scales away vowing to never repeat those mistakes again and start something entirely new?

The government's job isn't to redistribute equity, it's to turn the equity it obtains through taxation and other levies into infrastructure and economic growth which creates further equity that can be invested back into the system.
All they've done is moved a limited set of resources around, mostly into their own pockets, instead of creating new resources and moving forward from the past.


It's like still using "the dog ate my homework excuse", once you're 50 years old and school is 30 years behind you. And somehow people still swallow that excuse for the lack of performance. Bad dog. Bad dog damnit. Time to grow up and take responsibility for your shit instead of blaming the dog. Or better yet, don't let the shit occur at all.

Click to expand...

Hell yea, and that is an age old global problem:
http://bastiat.org/en/the_law.html

The law perverted! And the police powers of the state perverted along with it! The law, I say, not only turned from its proper purpose but made to follow an entirely contrary purpose! The law become the weapon of every kind of greed! Instead of checking crime, the law itself guilty of the evils it is supposed to punish!
If this is true, it is a serious fact, and moral duty requires me to call the attention of my fellow-citizens to it.
-Frederic Bastiat

If only everybody was born colour blind I wonder what the world would've been like...

Nikkel said:

If only everybody was born colour blind I wonder what the world would've been like...

Click to expand...

Well typically the opposite of colour is seen as grayscale which ironically is called black and white, the very cause of so much conflict.

adamr said:

Let me apologise to you for any rudeness you might have felt from my end. Your post above is sensible and I'd like to respond to it in a mature manner. I actually do understand your reactions to many here as being insensitive and do feel for you. But it's not as gloomy as you think it is. I am not saying things are great either.

1. Do you deny that white people are being segregated and discriminated against?

I absolutely agree there is bias in the coproate world and business world to give people of colour and in some cases only black people opportunities. And in almost all instances the best person or company for the job is not chosen. I've gone against this system and pushed agendas which I got hit over the knuckles for, for not obeying the law of the land. Yet I still tried.

White people though are not segregated ... You allowed to practise your speech live where ever you want in this country. Difference now is where you had facilities that were for you only ...anyone can use it. So yes those beaches are allot more packed than they were historically.

Discriminated ... yes ... by labour laws primarily and some tender requirements. But don't for one second think a random black person on the road is looking at you and wanting to kill you ... I could be wrong but you come across as you live in perpetual fear of this conceived idealogy that black people in general hate and want to kill all white people? be open and honest ... Helps with the discussion

2. Do you deny that white people are being murdered because of the color of their skin?

I don't agree with this ... Most murders in this country are off the back of some material gain. I know of black people indian people Asian people who have been victim to crime. I've lost 3 family members because of crime. Yes there are race crimes in South Africa. But to fear monger that every murder against a white person has a racial connection is very incorrect.

There is no genocide. No government has decreed the eradication of any race in this country

Black policeman are more likely to come to the aid of a white/Indian/couloured and even black individual from Sandton than someone from a location. Here is some food for thought. Rich folk get along ... Black white Indian coloured Asian. Maybe because of the nice cars and clothes they have and it something they can talk about. When humans find something they have in common with other, they link up. Race never features ... I tend to find such fear mongering in poorer communities.

3. Do you deny that certain politicians are behind the murder and segregation of white people?

What segregation do you speak of? The EFF has not come knocking on the doors of "oranians" ... They could not care less if they segregated themselves. No one has told or instructed white people to stay in certain suburbs ... Like apartheid has. Yes what Malema says is vile and down right scary singing songs of death to the Boer. And yes there are some people that believe strongly in it.

4. If your answer yes to either of these questions then please explain to me how it is any different to apartheid?

Understand that EE was a means to level the playing field. In theory it made sense. To fast-track the pasts wrong. In practice it ain't working. It's being manipulated by a powerful few to promote and raise "Friends and family". So we end up with instances (and there are lots of them) ... like the CIO from SARS [emoji85]

Truth is and this is fact ... In south Africa corporate senior positions are held primarily by white males. If it is a back person or a person of colour they would be in a non decision making positons like HR. Choose any corporate in SA and this is the truth.

Truth is majority of non black people in this country live good lives. You have a house, a car or two, internet, hot water ... People take these things for granted

Human nature is such: if I don't know it I will kill or exterminate it. What we need as South Africans is spend more time with each other and get to know each other better. I like cars. Have friends of all races because of it ... And I get to know them.better because of it. In the end you'd be surprised we all very similar

Don't be sheltered. Just be open to the fact that people are people. Their convictions bound by circumstance and not their skin colour

Click to expand...

I too would like to apologize to you if I was rude before. These discussions do tend to bring out aggression and rash words but I feel that finally I can say that we have achieved something today together. I am glad for that.

Though I may not share many of your view points I would like to acknowledge that I respect you for being honest. There are undoubtedly flaws on both sides of the lines but if we were able to create awareness of the true issues that need to be addressed in South Africa today perhaps we have accomplished some change today?

I am inclined to agree with you and I feel that despite our shortcomings we share many characteristics.Why can we all not connect evenly over them. Race, color and religion should not matter to any of us when it comes to fighting for justice.

You have enlightened me to the fact that we do need to be more empathetic and understanding to the disadvantages that black people have faced in the past. A man that has been crippled will never run with a man that has the use of all of his limbs and no amount of advancement could ever change that. That is why there are the Olympics and the Para-Olympics. (Please note that this is only an analogy). I do believe that this is an issue that needs to be addressed in all fairness. If the world can be fair in sports why can't we be equally fair in our policies.

I don't believe the current government is or will ever be the answer to the question we need in South Africa, neither do I believe any other party that is currently competing is the answer for that matter. I don't know when that answer will come but I do believe that together we can create awareness and inspire change starting by how we treat others. If enough of us fight the government's injustices maybe we can make a difference. We have done so with E-toll. We don't need to follow a corrupt government.

Mast3rBlast3r said:

Well typically the opposite of colour is seen as grayscale which ironically is called black and white, the very cause of so much conflict.

Click to expand...

Eish!...The technicalities...

Nikkel said:

If only everybody was born colour blind I wonder what the world would've been like...

Click to expand...

They will look for other differences to hate on each other

Nikkel said:

If only everybody was born colour blind I wonder what the world would've been like...

Click to expand...

Ideally that would be perfect but I don't believe that would make a very interesting world. Edit: I'm also inclined to agree with adamr, people would still find a reason to hate each other but don't see it negatively. I would like to believe that this is a challenge that we all get to face together. It is a challenge to bring us together and prove to those who would believe otherwise that race, religion, culture and preferences does not separate us. For what cause? How about creating a better tomorrow for all.

We will all indefinitely be faced with that decision to go one way or the other. Either to prove those who believe that people of different race and cultures cannot get along together right or wrong. What will you choose? A question to everyone.

adamr said:

Let me apologise to you for any rudeness you might have felt from my end. Your post above is sensible and I'd like to respond to it in a mature manner. I actually do understand your reactions to many here as being insensitive and do feel for you. But it's not as gloomy as you think it is. I am not saying things are great either.

1. Do you deny that white people are being segregated and discriminated against?

I absolutely agree there is bias in the coproate world and business world to give people of colour and in some cases only black people opportunities. And in almost all instances the best person or company for the job is not chosen. I've gone against this system and pushed agendas which I got hit over the knuckles for, for not obeying the law of the land. Yet I still tried.

White people though are not segregated ... You allowed to practise your speech live where ever you want in this country. Difference now is where you had facilities that were for you only ...anyone can use it. So yes those beaches are allot more packed than they were historically.

Discriminated ... yes ... by labour laws primarily and some tender requirements. But don't for one second think a random black person on the road is looking at you and wanting to kill you ... I could be wrong but you come across as you live in perpetual fear of this conceived idealogy that black people in general hate and want to kill all white people? be open and honest ... Helps with the discussion

2. Do you deny that white people are being murdered because of the color of their skin?

I don't agree with this ... Most murders in this country are off the back of some material gain. I know of black people indian people Asian people who have been victim to crime. I've lost 3 family members because of crime. Yes there are race crimes in South Africa. But to fear monger that every murder against a white person has a racial connection is very incorrect.

There is no genocide. No government has decreed the eradication of any race in this country

Black policeman are more likely to come to the aid of a white/Indian/couloured and even black individual from Sandton than someone from a location. Here is some food for thought. Rich folk get along ... Black white Indian coloured Asian. Maybe because of the nice cars and clothes they have and it something they can talk about. When humans find something they have in common with other, they link up. Race never features ... I tend to find such fear mongering in poorer communities.

3. Do you deny that certain politicians are behind the murder and segregation of white people?

What segregation do you speak of? The EFF has not come knocking on the doors of "oranians" ... They could not care less if they segregated themselves. No one has told or instructed white people to stay in certain suburbs ... Like apartheid has. Yes what Malema says is vile and down right scary singing songs of death to the Boer. And yes there are some people that believe strongly in it.

4. If your answer yes to either of these questions then please explain to me how it is any different to apartheid?

Understand that EE was a means to level the playing field. In theory it made sense. To fast-track the pasts wrong. In practice it ain't working. It's being manipulated by a powerful few to promote and raise "Friends and family". So we end up with instances (and there are lots of them) ... like the CIO from SARS [emoji85]

Truth is and this is fact ... In south Africa corporate senior positions are held primarily by white males. If it is a back person or a person of colour they would be in a non decision making positons like HR. Choose any corporate in SA and this is the truth.

Truth is majority of non black people in this country live good lives. You have a house, a car or two, internet, hot water ... People take these things for granted

Human nature is such: if I don't know it I will kill or exterminate it. What we need as South Africans is spend more time with each other and get to know each other better. I like cars. Have friends of all races because of it ... And I get to know them.better because of it. In the end you'd be surprised we all very similar

Don't be sheltered. Just be open to the fact that people are people. Their convictions bound by circumstance and not their skin colour

Click to expand...

Maximums_Rickimus said:

I too would like to apologize to you if I was rude before. These discussions do tend to bring out aggression and rash words but I feel that finally I can say that we have achieved something today together. I am glad for that.

Though I may not share many of your view points I would like to acknowledge that I respect you for being honest. There are undoubtedly flaws on both sides of the lines but if we were able to create awareness of the true issues that need to be addressed in South Africa today perhaps we have accomplished some change today?

I am inclined to agree with you and I feel that despite our shortcomings we share many characteristics.Why can we all not connect evenly over them. Race, color and religion should not matter to any of us when it comes to fighting for justice.

You have enlightened me to the fact that we do need to be more empathetic and understanding to the disadvantages that black people have faced in the past. A man that has been crippled will never run with a man that has the use of all of his limbs and no amount of advancement could ever change that. That is why there are the Olympics and the Para-Olympics. (Please note that this is only an analogy). I do believe that this is an issue that needs to be addressed in all fairness. If the world can be fair in sports why can't we be equally fair in our policies.

I don't believe the current government is or will ever be the answer to the question we need in South Africa, neither do I believe any other party that is currently competing is the answer for that matter. I don't know when that answer will come but I do believe that together we can create awareness and inspire change starting by how we treat others. If enough of us fight the government's injustices maybe we can make a difference. We have done so with E-toll. We don't need to follow a corrupt government.

Click to expand...

Now look at this. This is constructive debate. Well done for bringing it to this point.

Lol. I would like to believe that this is more than constructive but I do agree with you. We all made a difference with this thread, hell if it just brought us together it made a difference.

adamr said:

They will look for other differences to hate on each other

Click to expand...

True lol...guess if you a religious soul then the devil makes a plan to disrupt the world... just a pity the gullible/weak soul gets influenced so quickly...

Hey, Cyst. Still think this thread won't make a difference?

Nikkel said:

True lol...guess if you a religious soul then the devil makes a plan to disrupt the world... just a pity the gullible/weak soul gets influenced so quickly...

Click to expand...

Yes, religion...

Kudos to the @Mods for letting this thread run its course!

Nikkel said:

True lol...guess if you a religious soul then the devil makes a plan to disrupt the world... just a pity the gullible/weak soul gets influenced so quickly...

Click to expand...

TheRealRoko said:

Yes, religion...
View attachment 32352

Click to expand...

Here we go again, wait let me prepare for this debate:

My apologies for being rude. You are entitled to your

I do however have a few last questions for you:
1. Do you deny that white people are being segregated and discriminated against?

Yes I do . Majority of white south africa live in suburbs and are better off then majority of black south Africans (I have travelled to every province and have been to many dorpies the racial segregation of the past is more evident then the modern segregation you refer to) of which I do not see .

2. Do you deny that white people are being murdered because of the color of their skin?

Conspiracy theory murder is rife across all races across the country

3. Do you deny that certain politicians are behind the murder and segregation of white people?

Provide evidence to substantiate this claim

4. If your answer yes to either of these questions then please explain to me how it is any different to apartheid?

Sorry but non of the above mentioned is valid or arguable

I would really like to get your opinion on these questions.

I do differ with your opinion that I am unlearned in the history of South Africa. I have spent a lot of time doing research of our history and what people believe to be true is quite different to the truth. Unfortunately the ANC and unfortunately some white people (I am white myself), admittedly, do tend to spread untruths from time to time. Many occurrences that happened during apartheid should not have happened but unfortunately you are way off par with connecting apartheid to genocide. Apartheid never ordered the mass killing of black people. And I do not agree with apartheid at all but facts are facts. What did occur was instances such as the prison riots and if one were to study it closely you would become aware that the whole instance was a result of one trigger happy youngster who fired his gun out of fear. Furthermore many activists were killed during apartheid and were sentenced to prison which was not right but it was never genocide. Do you know that many of these activists also ordered the planting of bombs that killed innocent people during apartheid? Edit: The genocide that did occur was mostly caused by the IFP and ANC (perhaps you need some schooling in history). Please read this link and see that I am not denying that a lot of black people were killed unjustly by white people but more were killed among political differences in the townships itself. LINK.

Apartheid buried the murders and numerous atrocities committed
When peaceful protest fails . War prevails
And the IFP fought BECAUSE they felt they just wanted to work and remain suppressed as long as they get paid and they can provide for there families. The ANC refuted this ideology hense the fighting a direct result of apartheid.

I do however connect with the pain that the black people have suffered under apartheid. It was wrong and I can only begin to understand what it must have felt like. Unfortunately I must agree that I do not have first hand experience and therefore I dearly sympathies with the people who experienced apartheid and its gruesomeness first hand.

Why is it so hard to accept that the past has consequences that relate to the present. You are dealing with first generation descendents of those who suffered during apartheid and the rhetoric is already suck it up and move on . No . I won't accept that

I am thankful that you feel I am your brother as I also feel that you are my brother. I grew up in this country and so have you and we all live in its current circumstances. I would also join you in any constructive circumstance without hesitation.

Appreciated.

I beg you to reconsider your stance and open your eyes to what is going on. Undoubtedly you must have experienced oppression and racism at some stage in your life and therefore I appeal to your better judgement and ask you to sympathize with others who are experiencing the same oppression and racism now.

I do and if all in this discussion would like to start a group debating and discussing constructive ways to move forward with intent on escalating any ideas that may arise from said group I would gladly be on-board

Let us stand together against the true evil that haunts this country of ours? Unjust politicians and their actions. Let us not defend their actions and justify it for them. Let us create awareness and beg them to answer for their actions? Let us demand what was promised to all of us. Let us work together to create better communities. Let us work together to suss out those who inspire segregation and racism and destroy them. It is not tied to race, to culture or to religion but to individuals and we need to make it clear that such behavior is wrong and must be accounted for regardless of the color of your skin, religion or beliefs. I believe this much can be achieved as much as Mandela believed it.

Couldn't have said it better myself ... we have entered a new era and I am very optimistic regarding south Africa's future as long as we stand together

Nikkel said:

Kudos to the @Mods for letting this thread run its course!

Click to expand...

Wouldn't it be funny if @Ageless_ZA had only let it run as part of the upcoming prospective staff test.

"Ok guys we let this thread run but now tell me on which page and specifically which post should you have stepped in and stopped it"

and

"who should be banned or warned based on their posts in this thread"

? That doesn't seem like an answer. Because it's pointless? I don't see how finding and implementing a better way is ever pointless.

The tail chasing and racial bashing is what this thread mainly consisted of before we turned constructive and that is what I was referring to . It has since taken a turn for the better and has become somewhat civil and constructive

This is unless it requires the forming of about 10 dozen committees who all get paid handsomely for their time.

As is the problem with governments across the globe


Hmmm? Methinks that government profiteering just has less disclosure requirements and is better censored.
I'd like to be proven wrong though, it would make me feel good to know that government isn't yet THAT greedy.

Other way around there is more accountability in government then there is in the private sector it just takes time

That's because their government has failed them and not provided them with the required infrastructure to obtain them. We could be A LOT further along to fixing this WITHOUT any sort of racial policies.

Agreed !

How can you say immigration doesn't play a role?
If a previously disadvantaged person has worked hard, come up through the system and attained a position of advantage and then decides to leave then according to statistics it never happened. In fact the statistics may have gotten worse without a single bit of racial prejudice occurring.

Take the general population and compare that to the immigration statistics.

Contrary to that if we shove in any old candidate because of BEE they may be out of their depth. Which may cost the company growth and therefore jobs. Rather get the qualified person in (whatever colour they may be) and grow the company which means more jobs and then we don't even need BEE because with economic growth uneployment shrinks and everyone gets jobs regardless of who they may be.

Agreed . But Merit and race is now compulsory due to the lack of commitment from the private sector in the early stages of post apartheid. Tough but what must I tell you the system we inherited was lopsided and needs reform even in today's day and age.


I would hope not because that means I'm biased which I may be anyways even if I try not to be so, but then I'd be really biased.
Also I may or may not have been able to attain a position of advantage in last 30 years and I may have moved on, quite possibly literally. (as in immigrated).

I'm well travelled in this country and the situation most people find themselves in would bring tears to your eyes.

Are you including all of Africa?

No but you could

Also unless you mean the consequences are equally unjust treatment I don't see how the one has a different effect on our economic situation than the other?

The treatment is far from equally unjust .


A slave has no access to infrastructure, someone deemed beneath those of another colour also has not access to that infrastructure. For the purposes of this discussion separating serves not purpose unless you want to promote anguish or guilt, neither of which is constructive.

????

Not by an eye for an eye practices. Not by a reversal of fortunes.

Redistribution of fortune is a fundamental belief I live for but that's a topic for another day .


I am incredibly glad you can see the damage done over the past few years though. There's hope for us seeing eye to eye, without taking each other's eyes, yet.

Yet being the operative word lol

Let us remember that amongst black natives there is still much segregation. Zulus and Xhosa's , Amongst Indian people too Light Skin vs Dark Skin, amongst Asian Oriental Chinese and Japanese, Amongst Whites too Benoni and Boksburg... Brakpan and Spings. But everyone dislinkes Nigel [emoji14]

It will never stop, even if Hitler Succeeded and then went beyond his country. (IRONIC his Aryan Race was ideally Blonde withBlue eyes and he had neither) people would still find reason and cause to fight.

Love, wealth, religion and other factors will never seize to exist just like race.

We can never solve the problem of race but we can get pretty damn close ,to a point where we have 95% of people believing and thinking the right waycand a few not where as now we have 90% believing the wrong things.

Martin L.King believed. So should we.

Educate those around you, spread love and hope where you can, show kindness and stop apologizing. If someone waited for you and you were late ,thank them for waiting don't say sorry I was late.

The first few pages I liked what I read (pro and against, all great arguments) if we could all find a common ground and mkve forwars together it would be a great start.

The problem we have is ANC amongst themselves thought this was the way forward. Blinded by there past and their hatred towarda Apartheid. Once the youtg of today comes to power we can only hope it will get better, that is if we all survive and stay here long enough to see a beautiful and once dominant country rise again.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

The past is dead and buried. Those who still live in it and hate other races because of it are fools. People must rather focus on education and work experience.

The sooner white people learn to accept and apologise the past (in general) the sooner black people learn to accept and forgive ..

The get over it rhetoric will continue to garner the same response for years to come

realkingkam said:

? That doesn't seem like an answer. Because it's pointless? I don't see how finding and implementing a better way is ever pointless.

The tail chasing and racial bashing is what this thread mainly consisted of before we turned constructive and that is what I was referring to . It has since taken a turn for the better and has become somewhat civil and constructive

This is unless it requires the forming of about 10 dozen committees who all get paid handsomely for their time.

As is the problem with governments across the globe


Hmmm? Methinks that government profiteering just has less disclosure requirements and is better censored.
I'd like to be proven wrong though, it would make me feel good to know that government isn't yet THAT greedy.

Other way around there is more accountability in government then there is in the private sector it just takes time

That's because their government has failed them and not provided them with the required infrastructure to obtain them. We could be A LOT further along to fixing this WITHOUT any sort of racial policies.

Agreed !

How can you say immigration doesn't play a role?
If a previously disadvantaged person has worked hard, come up through the system and attained a position of advantage and then decides to leave then according to statistics it never happened. In fact the statistics may have gotten worse without a single bit of racial prejudice occurring.

Take the general population and compare that to the immigration statistics.

Contrary to that if we shove in any old candidate because of BEE they may be out of their depth. Which may cost the company growth and therefore jobs. Rather get the qualified person in (whatever colour they may be) and grow the company which means more jobs and then we don't even need BEE because with economic growth uneployment shrinks and everyone gets jobs regardless of who they may be.

Agreed . But Merit and race is now compulsory due to the lack of commitment from the private sector in the early stages of post apartheid. Tough but what must I tell you the system we inherited was lopsided and needs reform even in today's day and age.


I would hope not because that means I'm biased which I may be anyways even if I try not to be so, but then I'd be really biased.
Also I may or may not have been able to attain a position of advantage in last 30 years and I may have moved on, quite possibly literally. (as in immigrated).

I'm well travelled in this country and the situation most people find themselves in would bring tears to your eyes.

Are you including all of Africa?

No but you could

Also unless you mean the consequences are equally unjust treatment I don't see how the one has a different effect on our economic situation than the other?

The treatment is far from equally unjust .


A slave has no access to infrastructure, someone deemed beneath those of another colour also has not access to that infrastructure. For the purposes of this discussion separating serves not purpose unless you want to promote anguish or guilt, neither of which is constructive.

????

Not by an eye for an eye practices. Not by a reversal of fortunes.

Redistribution of fortune is a fundamental belief I live for but that's a topic for another day .


I am incredibly glad you can see the damage done over the past few years though. There's hope for us seeing eye to eye, without taking each other's eyes, yet.

Yet being the operative word lol

Click to expand...

Please please PLEASE learn to manipulate bbcode.

You giving me a plain-text response like this just makes it seem less sincere because it seems you are putting less in.
I will however respond to you later if the thread is still open.

Crying Girl: [reading from paper] I wish we could all get along like we used to in middle school... I wish I could bake a cake filled with rainbows and smiles and everyone would eat and be happy...
[about to cry]

Damian: [shouting from back] She doesn't even go here!

Ms. Norbury: Do you even go to this school?

Crying Girl: No... I just have a lot of feelings...

Mast3rBlast3r said:

No just no. I know this is offtopic but I have to reply to this.

Then penalty of death is not a punishment, it's not a revenge fantasy.
It is purely the removal of a dangerous element from society and therefore method should under no circumstances be in the hands of those looking for revenge.

Click to expand...

It's also something that might make some think twice before doing the crime. My opinion anyway.
I want the death penalty back. Especially for repeat offenders.

Mast3rBlast3r said:

Please please PLEASE learn to manipulate bbcode.

You giving me a plain-text response like this just makes it seem less sincere because it seems you are putting less in.
I will however respond to you later if the thread is still open.

Click to expand...

The lack of format does make long posts a bit hard to read, @realkingkam . Even just adding quotation marks should already help to differentiate the paragraphs, or maybe use a combination of italics and quotation marks for the paragraphs you are replying to. This should also encourage people to read your responses thoroughly whereas they might simply scan them otherwise. I know I sometimes do that when faced with a wall of text.

Mast3rBlast3r said:

Wouldn't it be funny if @Ageless_ZA had only let it run as part of the upcoming prospective staff test.

"Ok guys we let this thread run but now tell me on which page and specifically which post should you have stepped in and stopped it"

and

"who should be banned or warned based on their posts in this thread"

Click to expand...

It's part two of the test...... Not really but thats a great idea.. Thanks


HOWEVER, I let it run because this thread (which took 20 pages to reach a debate level discussion) is what is needed. People to vent, lose their shit, then go wait a minute and engage in meaningful interaction and debate.