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Looking for some advice on keyboard switches

ZaLiTHkA

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howd good peeps..

ok, so first a little context.. I type. a lot. like, shitloads a lot.. to the point that I've optimised my typing so I only capatilise proper nouns and "Important Words".. double points make the end of sentences easier to spot, reverse smileys because "( :" is an easier hand position for me than ": )", etc. etc.. on top of that, 75% of what I write everyday is code, so I play with all those extra fun symbols too.. I even use my thumb to hit "v" when I write the word "even", simply because I don't have to move my hand as far.... it runs deep.

I must point out that I do this with one hand.. I've mentioned it here and there in other posts, but just for clarity: my left arm is paralysed from the shoulder down, has been since 2007, and so "Life"(tm) in all it's glory happens one handed for me. still, on a decent keyboard I average around 50-60 WPM in typical typing tests (Monkeytype FTW), getting up into the 80's on really good days.

considering the amount of typing I do, I feel I can't just drop stupid money on a G915 and then have to deal with tons of features that I'll never use and all the quirks that come along with them.. I need to invest in a keyboard that's right for me.. but after watching hours of keyboard reviews, reading tons of comparison articles, looking at spans of switch profile charts, I have more answers, but I also have more questions.

little spoiler: I currently have my sights quite firmly set on the Keychron K5 SE (if I can bloody find one in SA.. or that ships to SA..).

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now, you can call me a bubble-boy if you want, but until somewhat recently, I always preferred using a decently "poppy" membrane keyboard with low-ish profile keys. I would have to say somewhat like Mac keyboards..? though I find they do tend to be a little too "flat" with regards to individual key feedback. Dell, Mecer, and (ironically) A4Tech actually make some of the most well balanced membrane boards around, and yes, I'm referring to their average run-of-the-mill R300 jobs. but "not bad" isn't good enough for me.

the 8-odd months that I spent a few years back killing a Moshi Luna were some of my the best in my life.. but since everything to the right of "O" is my pinky finger's domain, when the "P", "[" and "]" keys started double-activating, I just couldn't use it anymore, purely because of the angle my hand is at while I type. so I gave it to a friend and he got another few years out of it.

my current laptop (MSI GP73-8RE Leopard) has a SteelSeries membrane low-profie keyboard that is by far the smoothest, clearest, most incredible board I have ever used. if I had found that in a full size desktop board last year, I would have bought ten and never looked back.. now, I'm rethinking this now.

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on with the nitty-gritty details then. if you're still reading at this point, I applaud you.. but please do read on, this is where it all gets real interesting.

despite my praise of my MSI's SteelSeries, I'm currently swirling my second toe in the mechanical keyboard pool, with my laptop on a riser and one gorgeous Logitech G513 Carbon with (I think Cherry MX?) Brown switches (thanks @DirkMostert). after a solid 2 months' with it, I would say this is quite possibly one of the best boards I have ever owned! but while it's incredible for gaming, the longer key travel means it's only "pretty good" for coding..

the first toe I ever dipped in the mechanical keyboard pool was a Corsair K95 with Cherry MX Reds, which absolutely blew my socks off (when I got it). now in hindsight, I can see that I had all the same feelings towards the Reds as I do towards the Browns, just... much more intensely. an absolute dream for keyboard-based gaming, but I make a great many more code and "chat" typos while using Reds.

so, I'm now planning to dip a third toe into the pool here with the Keychron. but I have questions.. many questions. lol. let's break it down..

"Optical" or "Mechanical"? I'm looking at charts and thinking the former, then I'm watching real-world reviews and thinking the latter.. the biggest physical difference I can see between them is the switch travel, where the Optical seem to be slightly shorter on average than the Mechanical. I would love to know more about the real-world difference between them though.. the K5 SE switches may be hot-swappable, but the Optical for Mech have different "plug sockets".

"Tactile" or "Early Bump Tactile"? by the raw charts and numbers, and comparisons to some of my favourite membrane keyboards, I can't shake the feeling that "Early Bump Tactile" is the switch for me.. but then I watch reviews (like this one) and and the reviewer just cannot type on them to save, well, maybe even their own life. and then I start questioning my life choices all over again.

I will say that, from personal experience, "Linear" switches don't feel right for me.. unless perhaps a heavier linear would be better? perhaps a "Black" with 50gf? open to opinions here. and if "Early Bump Tactile" is what I need, then I'll need the K5 SE Optical.

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are there any mechanical and/or optical switch users out there who might be willing to share their own opinions or experiences on these points?
 
Firstly, welcome the bottomless rabbit hole that is keyboard customisation. I see you've already experienced the gateway drug of red/brown switches and it's about to get a whole lot crazy from there.

I would recommend a switch tester before you get too far down this proverbial hole. It should help you work out whether you're heading in a tactile or linear direction.

This should give you decent variety: Switch Tester

And they will probably have all the parts you need for the build once you come to a final decision
 
Woah, you weren't lying when you said you type a lot.
haha.. yeah, indeed.

Firstly, welcome the bottomless rabbit hole that is keyboard customisation. I see you've already experienced the gateway drug of red/brown switches and it's about to get a whole lot crazy from there.
thank you, thank you... I guess at least I'm not alone in this rabbit hole though, so it should be fun!

I would recommend a switch tester before you get too far down this proverbial hole. It should help you work out whether you're heading in a tactile or linear direction.

This should give you decent variety: Switch Tester

And they will probably have all the parts you need for the build once you come to a final decision
I've seen a few of these switch testers so far, haven't gone searching for them specifically, but in a perfect world, one would be able to pick a tester board and all the switches that one might want to test... which of course comes back to the switches that are available from whatever shop is selling the tester.. that could be a self-sustaining rabbit hole of it's own right there.

still, that is wise advice indeed.. 🖖

FWIW, I would still very much like to hear opinions from some who have used Keychron's "Optical" low profile switches.. I don't think I will find a more appropriate keyboard base (for me) than the K5 SE, so I'll continue aiming for that until something changes my mind. in the meantime, I'll see if I can hunt down one of their switch testers then.
 
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Honestly, it’s personal preference.


I hate a linear switch feel but I know people who love them.

I, personally, go for a nice tactile bump.

I’m using baby kangaroo switches in my main keyboard (Nuphy Halo65), I have Cherry MX Reds jn my Ducky that I still love the overall feel of because the keyboard as a whole is great even with linear switches in and I have a Keychron Q2 with linear switches in that I have just not bonded with and will sell soon.

The biggest thing that I recently realised is how much the Keycaps improve the feeling of the keyboard.

My Nuphy Halo 65 has the best Keycaps I’ve ever used and I love it soo much that I’ll basically buy another one if this one dies or move the Keycaps to a different keyboard.

I managed to get hold of a full 110 Keycap set at half the £50 retail price and they are trash compared to the OEM Nuphy keycaps.
 
Just a note, didn't read it all, but @XtaCy696 | CGSATech is your go-to for Keychron imports.

And as @thecurto said look at @ctrlshiftesc_za's site for switches and custom goodies too, including switch testers - maybe send him a message to ask which switches he has loosies of to maybe make a more customised switch tester?
 
thanks for the details guys, really appreciate that.. I've only just got to work, so I can't dig into this any more right now, but I will definitely do so when I get home this evening.

FWIW, I actually emailed Keychron support to say "I can't find your products in any local shops here is SA", explicitly mentioning that I've checked the list of registered distributors on their website.. and I got the following response:

We do not ship to South Africa at the moment. You could try our Amazon stores and authorised store on Aliexpress by searching Keychron. You could also check out other authorised partners here: Where to buy.
so helpful... :rolleyes:

I did also find a "low profile switch tester" from one of their UK distributors last night, and since my boet lives there now, I might be able to make a plan to get that.

anyways, where was I now... ah yes, work.. need to go make some money. :cool:
 
thanks for the details guys, really appreciate that.. I've only just got to work, so I can't dig into this any more right now, but I will definitely do so when I get home this evening.

FWIW, I actually emailed Keychron support to say "I can't find your products in any local shops here is SA", explicitly mentioning that I've checked the list of registered distributors on their website.. and I got the following response:


so helpful... :rolleyes:

I did also find a "low profile switch tester" from one of their UK distributors last night, and since my boet lives there now, I might be able to make a plan to get that.

anyways, where was I now... ah yes, work.. need to go make some money. :cool:


What???

GoldFritter suggested a reseller that could maybe help you out with options.
 
I hate a linear switch feel but I know people who love them.

I, personally, go for a nice tactile bump.
yup, that makes perfect sense. my current Cherry MX Browns are much easier for typing than the Reds I used to have, but at the same time, I found the Reds were better for keyboard-friendly racing games.. they both have pros and cons.

but hey, this is actually what led me to start looking into keyboards with hot-swappable switches in the first place.. I'm aiming for a full-sized low-profile mechanical keyboard, with linear (Reds? Blacks?) for the numpad and arrow key cluster, and tactile (Browns? "Bananas"?) for everything else..

hope I don't need to buy too many switch testers.. :eek::ROFLMAO:

Just a note, didn't read it all, but @XtaCy696 | CGSATech is your go-to for Keychron imports.
to expand a little on my comment from earlier: I did actually find CGSATech's website through a Google search, before I knew of the link to Carbonite.. but to be fair, I havn't messaged anyone directly regarding any of this, simply because I'm still in the research phase at the moment.. helpful info either way though, thanks.

And as @thecurto said look at @ctrlshiftesc_za's site for switches and custom goodies too, including switch testers - maybe send him a message to ask which switches he has loosies of to maybe make a more customised switch tester?
I must admit, I did check the link to the tester itself, but I haven't gone digging through the rest of the site just yet (I will do shortly though)... I really like the idea of a customised switch tester, will definitely keep that in mind.

one thing I can say with absolute certainty is that I do want low-profile switches.. my biggest gripe with almost every keyboard I've used is that the keys just travel too far. I definitely prefer keyboards with shorter key travel, so at least that helps narrow my options down a bit hey? lol.

anyways, thank you all for the input so far.. (y) I have a little more research to do.
 
Most of the boards that I know of that use low profile switches are also the weird ergo types of boards, like the Sofle or Corne.

beekeeb - experimental ergonomic mechanical keyboards and cases supplies switches, but when it comes to low profile switches a few caveats should be noted:

  • Low profile switches are relatively new, so they have yet to settle on standards for keycap mounting and pin layout
    • Kailh Choc v1 (not compatible with Cherry MX keycaps)
    • Kailh Choc v2 (not compatible with Kailh Choc v1 PCBs, but compatible with Cherry MX keycaps)
    • Gateron Low profile (I know nothing, never seen the things)
  • Choc v1 are VERY difficult to find keycaps for, so if you do want to change them out or go DIY, those are your best bet

It's also possible to put sockets in a non-hotswap board if hotswap is a dealbreaker, but it will void any warranty with the manufacturer.

I found this board that at least covers the full size and low profile requirements:

 
I'd strongly consider a Keychron Q series motherboard as your initial purchase.

I see you're looking at the K series but the Q series is better and even at R4000 for the Q6, it's still very good value as a whole.


I own the Q2 and it's rated as one of the best typing keyboards
 
I'd strongly consider a Keychron Q series motherboard as your initial purchase.
hmm.. that does throw a small spanner the works now, the Q6 was the first Keychron board that I was looking at. the only thing that put me off was the high(er?) profile switches. I don't suppose it would work to get a barebones Q6 and add lower profile switches..? :geek:

just for clarification, one of the reasons I'm aiming for a proper full sized board, and even avoiding those with a keypad that's "squashed up" to the rest of the keys, is because of my key mappings for keyboard racing games... so basically, I use practically the entire numpad and most arrow keys at the same time:
  • numpad 8 = accelerate
  • numpad 5 = brake
  • numpad 4/6 = steering
  • numpad 0 = "action" (if the vehicle has any special ability, like nitrous, jump, shoot, etc.. otherwise this is handbrake)
  • numpad fullstop = handbrake (if 0 is used for something else)
  • numpad enter = clutch
  • numpad plus = look back
  • numpad minus = reset/recover
  • numpad star = change camera
  • right arrow = gear up
  • down arrow = gear down
  • left arrow = direct-select "reverse" (if applicable)
many other keys around these get assigned to game-specific actions, of which I suppose BeamNG.drive is about the most complex.. point is, even though a 96% board like the Q5, the key layout makes things virtually impossible for me. with the money I'm planning to invest in my next board, things like this unfortunately make for total deal breakers..

although.. there is also the option of just not using my keyboard in that way, but then I would start looking into something like the Azeron Cyborg, which by itself will probably cost about the same as a decent mech board. lol.

also, on the topic of keyboards.. this just completely blew my mind:
o_O
 
alrighty.. and time for an update. :)

this is a rather interesting update, actually.. because I'm typing it on a keyboard that I honestly never thought I would use. let alone, actually like using.. I picked up secondhand Redragon APAS Pro (K535P) here on Carb just last week, it's got low profile Blue switches, of all things.. and dare I say, I don't hate them. (shock and horror)

the lack of hate is just the "overall impression" though.. they are seriously awesome for typing, and the clicks don't actually bug me like I thought they would. my ability to write code has just been streamlined a great deal more than I expected. but they really do suck for gaming, there I find the constant click-clack of the keys not only kills the immersion, but it's just the "wrong" tactile feedback for rapid presses of a smaller set of keys.

BONUS! the K535P has hot-swappable switches... alas, I cannot find just the switches for sale. two steps forward, one step back hey? I'm sorely tempted to try find a second of these boards, but with the low-profile Red or Brown switches.. then I would just split them hard-half, and have two with clicky for letters and linear for arrows/numpad, etc.

OPEN REQUEST: if you have some unused low-profile 2 pin switches that would work with this board, please do let me know..?

this is little keyboard hunt excursion of mine is turning out to be an unbelieveably fascinating rabbit hole...
 
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this is little keyboard hunt excursion of mine is turning out to be an unbelieveably fascinating rabbit hole

I both love and hate the keyboard rabbit hole.

I found the Reds were better for keyboard-friendly racing games.. they both have pros and cons.
Can confirm how amazing reds are for gaming. Had a Ducky One2 with Cherry Reds which I used for gaming alone and it was just brilliant to use. Gave it to a friend who loves it too.

this is a rather interesting update, actually.. because I'm typing it on a keyboard that I honestly never thought I would use. let alone, actually like using.. I picked up secondhand Redragon APAS Pro (K535P)
I also have heard that Reddragon have come along way since their original offerings. I bought one of their early models and absolutely hated it. They seem to have realised how much they sucked and improved...drastically.
 
OPEN REQUEST: if you have some unused low-profile 2 pin switches that would work with this board, please do let me know..?
so, it seems the K535P uses 2-pin low profile switches made by Outemu. but beyond that, and taking one out my own board to measure it, I cannot find much of anything on them..

I also cannot find anywhere to buy just the switches.. local or overseas. fml. why does everything that I really want always have to be so damn difficult to actually get?? I even emailed Redragon directly to ask about this, to which they responded:
Thank you for reaching out to us.

We do plan on getting low profile switches into SA as soon as they become available

Currently no ETA can be confirmed.

Keep a look out on the website


Kind Regards.

screw it.. I'm looking out for specials, and snatching myself (at least) one more K535P, with either Reds or Browns. that should at least be the short term problem solved.
 
screw it.. I'm looking out for specials, and snatching myself (at least) one more K535P, with either Reds or Browns. that should at least be the short term problem solved.
so.. I've now done this, more or less. :unsure:

for all my searching, I still cannot find just the Outemu low profile mechanical switches anywhere (other than Alibaba or Banggood, neither of which use realiable shipping methods within SA).. and to make things even more interesting, even though all their low profile mechanical keyboards have hot-swappable switches, each model comes with one specific type and nothing else. K535 (wired and wireless, TKL and full-sized) both come with Blue switches, K618 (wireless) and K619 (wired) both come with Red switches, etc etc. I forget all the models, I found many. though I couldn't find any Brown switch boards, which is weird.

anyway, long story short, and many pulled switches later (with only one broken, not too bad for my first venture with this), I now have a K535 APAS and a K618 Horus, each with the following switch layout:



best of both worlds, clicky for all my typical typing inputs, and linear for my (right-hand only) gaming inputs. :cool: and both boards have identical layouts, so I can now leave my K618 at home and my K535 at work.

I do still want a Keychron K5, though I'm starting to lean more towards the K5 Pro now, rather than the K5 SE... the idea of a keyboard that is totally reprogrammable from a firmware level is not only seriously cool, but for someone like me who might actually still want a Windows key on both sides of Space, or a Fn key in a different spot to normal, is an actual game changer.

alas, the K5 must wait... because I did a naughty and I configured and ordered a Azeron Cyborg last week. right-handed, full black, "pro" thumbstick caps, both palm rest shapes, the works.. no import duties, but it plus shipping plus VAT, well.. let's just say it's a little on the pricy side of life.
 
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also, just FWIW: between these two Redragon boards, the K535 actually feels like a better quality board.... this K618 feels "cheap" where the K535 feels solid. like, the base of the board itself is just better.
 
OMFG THIS K618 IS A PIECE OF SHIT.....

damn. that doesn't make me feel better, I hoped it might. :confused:

regardless of whether I use BT, RF, or USB connection, the first keypress after it goes to sleep (which is mere seconds) just never fucking registers with the computer it's connected to. like, seriously? how the hell did this firmware pass product testing??

so yeah, some free advice for all you lot (and R1300 advice for me), DON'T buy a K618. you will want to throw it at a wall within the first few days of owning it.

[edit] and then after I post that, running in USB mode it's no longer going to sleep.. WTF? this model has some serious issues.
 
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