Home Backup solution

[Smurf]

Hi Guys,

Been following the posts on some of the threads, I also got a few questions and sorry if I sound clueless (Which I am by the way) but need some of you guru's input.

Looking at the following setup;

• 1 x Deye 5kw Inverter
• 8 x 425W Solar Panels (Trina) thinking of going 545W Panels rather
• 1 x Shoto 5.12kw Battery
• Total with all the accessories and fittings materials = R61 999 INCL VAT

I worked out for my basic needs I won't require more than 3.2kw for everything I need running. My non essentials will not be running of the inverter, but here comes the stupid question.

During the day when I am not home I would like the solar panels to be able to power the geyser (on smart switch, still deciding if it should be on the DB), and my fridges (basically the whole house) with the excess solar available if the battery is fully charged.

Will this be do able? From what I have seen you can setup the Inverter on Solar/ Battery/ Utility and assuming I am right you first get your battery full then the power that is free on the solar to power the essential and non essential during the day when the sun is available and it allows for it.

I noticed that Luxpower is not a brand that would be able to do this (SNA 5000 WPV) based on @Confucius mentioning, but your help would be appreciate as well

Sorry for the noob question!

 

[abd]

Yeah that is exactly what the deye/ sunsynk will do, it has CT clamps to measure current on the grid (close to the municipal meter) and will push back extra solar power to feed non essentials as well.

 

[Valheru]

Yeah that is exactly what the sunsynk will do, it has CT clamps to measure current on the grid (close to the municipal meter) and will push back extra solar power to feed non essentials as well.

Deye does the same.

When there is grid power, the inverter will balance solar + grid to charge the batteries as well as power the non-essentials. I use smart switches for both geyser & pool pump to force them to only run during the day when PV is available.

 

[Smurf]

Deye does the same.

When there is grid power, the inverter will balance solar + grid to charge the batteries as well as power the non-essentials. I use smart switches for both geyser & pool pump to force them to only run during the day when PV is available.

Thanks for the reply guys

This may sound stupid but how do I know if a inverter supports this function?

 

[Valheru]

This may sound stupid but how do I know if a inverter supports this function?

Likely if labelled "hybrid", check model number on the internet.

I don't know your requirements or budget, but some notes from what I learned.

On your panels:
Get more panels if your surface area & budget allows for it. At least 4. It will help greatly with overcast days and powering all your non-essentials during daytime.
On your battery:
I don't know the brand, so cannot comment. If you can afford to, add another battery. This is for those multi-day fuckups in the general West Rand area.
Non-essentials:

• Get a gas hob if you can
• Put them on smart switches
• Replace your geyser element with the more effecient ceramic 2Kw one
• If you use a tumble dryer and can afford it, get a heat pump dryer

 

[Smurf]

Likely if labelled "hybrid", check model number on the internet.

I don't know your requirements or budget, but some notes from what I learned.

On your panels:
Get more panels if your surface area & budget allows for it. At least 4. It will help greatly with overcast days and powering all your non-essentials during daytime.
On your battery:
I don't know the brand, so cannot comment. If you can afford to, add another battery. This is for those multi-day fuckups in the general West Rand area.
Non-essentials:

• Get a gas hob if you can
• Put them on smart switches
• Replace your geyser element with the more effecient ceramic 2Kw one
• If you use a tumble dryer and can afford it, get a heat pump dryer

That is the plan, want to add later more panels to power the essential items. Noticed you have to make sure the inverter has the CT Coil in order to make use of the feature to not pump into the grid but rather you own items.

as for the battery also not very clued up with the brand comes as pre package deal.

thanks for all the tips, want to slowly start moving over to solar, the area where I stay does not have loadshedding but want to start saving on costs and believe one day the loadshedding will strike again.

 

[Valheru]

That is the plan, want to add later more panels to power the essential items. Noticed you have to make sure the inverter has the CT Coil in order to make use of the feature to not pump into the grid but rather you own items.

as for the battery also not very clued up with the brand comes as pre package deal.

thanks for all the tips, want to slowly start moving over to solar, the area where I stay does not have loadshedding but want to start saving on costs and believe one day the loadshedding will strike again.

Cost saving was minimal for our type of usage as after load shedding the inverter charges the batteries again, so evens out.

Also not very clued up on most things wrt to Solar, maybe @Confucius can advise on the batteries / inverter model.

FYI, my inveter can be set on the control interface to export to grid (or not).

 

[Qui_Illustrati]

Sounds like you're going with this

5KW DEYE 5.12

This Package Includes: 1 x Deye 5kw Inverter 8 x 420W TRINA Solar Panels (NEW MODEL, LATEST TECHNOLOGY) 1 x Shoto 5.12kw Battery 100 x 6mm Solar Cable 1 x Ac Protection + Changeover 1 x Pvc2 Combiner 10 x Mc4 Connectors 4 x 35mm Lugs 1 x Comms cable 1 x Dc Disconnector 2 x...

www.solarwaysuppliers.co.za

It's decent. Deye is a great true hybrid inverter. Shoto seems a decent match. If you have decent roof real estate for room to expand then 8x slightly lower wattage panels is much of a muchness. If your roof real estate is limited, going higher wattages off the bat is likely a better option. Solarway are legit and usually well priced.
I don't see mention of installation included in that price, unless I missed the obvious. You'd have to budget for that and sparky/COC as well.

Good luck on your solar journey. There is a Luxpower model that has the same functionality essentially, but I reckon Deye is a superior inverter compared to Luxpower.

 

[Divan85]

Take a look at this: https://carbonite.co.za/index.php?threads/free-solar-design-software.499922/

You can enter your street address and do the panel layouts on your roof using a google map view. You can enter the inverter and panel details and it will give you estimated results and show you if there are any potential issues with things like string voltages etc.

Planning the panel layout on your roof is essential. North facing panels will be best as they will get the most sun hours during the day, however if like me you don't have sufficient North facing roof space then you can go East & West facing strings (separate strings, not 1x string split between East & West). I have 6x panels facing East (morning sun) and 4x panels facing West (afternoon sun). My inverter is set to prioritize load first then charge the battery second. Even with it set to prioritize load my battery is still fully charged by around 9am in the morning. I don't ever charge the battery from the grid, solar only. You can set this up in the "time of use" section of the settings.

My geyser is on a normal timer which I have set to switch the geyser on during the afternoon when there is lots of sun whilst no other loads since no one is home during the week. That way my excess solar powers the geyser everyday.

The DEYE and Sunynk inverters are identical with only the software being different on the two. During the day when there is excess solar my non-essential loads (geyser and stove) are powered by the excess solar if available, but that is only possible if you have the CT installed and you do not have loadshedding.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

 

[Divan85]

Cost saving was minimal for our type of usage as after load shedding the inverter charges the batteries again, so evens out.

Also not very clued up on most things wrt to Solar, maybe @Confucius can advise on the batteries / inverter model.

FYI, my inveter can be set on the control interface to export to grid (or not).

That is unfortunately something that a lot of people forget or do not get told by suppliers, installing an inverter system without solar won't save you any money on electricity, in fact it will cost you more per month. You are now using the battery power during loadshedding to power your house / essentials, however when Eskom comes back then you use more energy to charge the battery so your total energy usage increases.

 

[Confucius]

Hi Guys,

Been following the posts on some of the threads, I also got a few questions and sorry if I sound clueless (Which I am by the way) but need some of you guru's input.

Looking at the following setup;

• 1 x Deye 5kw Inverter
• 8 x 425W Solar Panels (Trina) thinking of going 545W Panels rather
• 1 x Shoto 5.12kw Battery
• Total with all the accessories and fittings materials = R61 999 INCL VAT

I worked out for my basic needs I won't require more than 3.2kw for everything I need running. My non essentials will not be running of the inverter, but here comes the stupid question.

During the day when I am not home I would like the solar panels to be able to power the geyser (on smart switch, still deciding if it should be on the DB), and my fridges (basically the whole house) with the excess solar available if the battery is fully charged.

Will this be do able? From what I have seen you can setup the Inverter on Solar/ Battery/ Utility and assuming I am right you first get your battery full then the power that is free on the solar to power the essential and non essential during the day when the sun is available and it allows for it.

I noticed that Luxpower is not a brand that would be able to do this (SNA 5000 WPV) based on @Confucius mentioning, but your help would be appreciate as well

Sorry for the noob question!

That’s not a bad price for a fully installed system but make sure there are no hidden install costs like Coc and something that’s related to distant from db. Also make sure that the install doesn’t include a sub par install that you will need to pay someone else to fix.

Based on the brands they are available in South Africa, Deye / Sunsynk would be your best bet. There are other brands but support may be even worse than Sunsynk / Deye.

Solar panels are dirt cheap now. I saw 545w tier 1 panels at Leroy Merlin for R1950. If you can afford to and have the roof space, get as many panels as you can , even if you think you don’t need the extra power, and then forget about it. Production in winter is very different than in summer, more so if your panels are not facing north.

Your geyser will generally be the biggest consumer. I always tell people to get another geyser installed in series and heat the water to the max temperature during the day so that it can cover you until the next day as well. Don’t use power to heat water at night.

If I remember correctly, to heat 150l of water from 15 degree to 65 degrees will require about 9kwh and a geyser install is about 7-8k if you get a scammer plumber to install. Still far cheaper than a 10k battery.

Likely if labelled "hybrid",

Nah, this is no longer a fair assumption. There are so many Voltronic cheap replicas that claim hybrid but it’s not really a hybrid.

The Luxpower sna can blend solar, battery and grid but it can’t feedback to the nonessentials and anyway, it’s not a massive saving when you consider what you are paying in total.

 

[Divan85]

Not to be a troll but OP and the add doesn't mention anything about installation being included. It mentions all the equipmemnt required to do a solar installation, but nowhere does it state that installation is included. If installation is included then that is a very good price, maybe just make sure. Doesn't hurt to ask.

 

[Smurf]

I completely forgotten about my own thread :O

Not to be a troll but OP and the add doesn't mention anything about installation being included. It mentions all the equipmemnt required to do a solar installation, but nowhere does it state that installation is included. If installation is included then that is a very good price, maybe just make sure. Doesn't hurt to ask.

Thank you for the reply! Correct no installation is included it will have to be done separately

Take a look at this: https://carbonite.co.za/index.php?threads/free-solar-design-software.499922/

You can enter your street address and do the panel layouts on your roof using a google map view. You can enter the inverter and panel details and it will give you estimated results and show you if there are any potential issues with things like string voltages etc.

Planning the panel layout on your roof is essential. North facing panels will be best as they will get the most sun hours during the day, however if like me you don't have sufficient North facing roof space then you can go East & West facing strings (separate strings, not 1x string split between East & West). I have 6x panels facing East (morning sun) and 4x panels facing West (afternoon sun). My inverter is set to prioritize load first then charge the battery second. Even with it set to prioritize load my battery is still fully charged by around 9am in the morning. I don't ever charge the battery from the grid, solar only. You can set this up in the "time of use" section of the settings.

My geyser is on a normal timer which I have set to switch the geyser on during the afternoon when there is lots of sun whilst no other loads since no one is home during the week. That way my excess solar powers the geyser everyday.

The DEYE and Sunynk inverters are identical with only the software being different on the two. During the day when there is excess solar my non-essential loads (geyser and stove) are powered by the excess solar if available, but that is only possible if you have the CT installed and you do not have loadshedding.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

So I will be doing 8 panels north facing as I do not have any obstruction and can gain maximum benefit from the sun.

I also want to take advantage of the excess solar to pump it back into my system during the day to power the complete setup as nobody will be home to drain it during the week. Only on weekends were I will add a smart switch to toggle the geyser on/ off depending on the demand ofcourse.

My issue is will any electrician be able to wire the CT coil in that way or does it take alot of know how?

That’s not a bad price for a fully installed system but make sure there are no hidden install costs like Coc and something that’s related to distant from db. Also make sure that the install doesn’t include a sub par install that you will need to pay someone else to fix.

Based on the brands they are available in South Africa, Deye / Sunsynk would be your best bet. There are other brands but support may be even worse than Sunsynk / Deye.

Solar panels are dirt cheap now. I saw 545w tier 1 panels at Leroy Merlin for R1950. If you can afford to and have the roof space, get as many panels as you can , even if you think you don’t need the extra power, and then forget about it. Production in winter is very different than in summer, more so if your panels are not facing north.

Your geyser will generally be the biggest consumer. I always tell people to get another geyser installed in series and heat the water to the max temperature during the day so that it can cover you until the next day as well. Don’t use power to heat water at night.

If I remember correctly, to heat 150l of water from 15 degree to 65 degrees will require about 9kwh and a geyser install is about 7-8k if you get a scammer plumber to install. Still far cheaper than a 10k battery.



Nah, this is no longer a fair assumption. There are so many Voltronic cheap replicas that claim hybrid but it’s not really a hybrid.

The Luxpower sna can blend solar, battery and grid but it can’t feedback to the nonessentials and anyway, it’s not a massive saving when you consider what you are paying in total.

If I could I would go solar geyser as well, but think if you use your equipment correctly it should not be an issue to use the geyser during winter months still on solar, yes the demand for solar would be higher as with my folks the solar geyser in winter is not that hot but think from a general perspective in winter you going to have to make a sacrifice of some sorts should you need hot water

it is insane the amount of juice a geyser uses to heat up water! as for the panels I am pushing for 10 but 8 will have to do for now, as a matter of interest can you mixed different wattage solar panals? i guess as long as you do not go over the voltage input of the inverter itself?

 

[Smurf]

Sounds like you're going with this

5KW DEYE 5.12

This Package Includes: 1 x Deye 5kw Inverter 8 x 420W TRINA Solar Panels (NEW MODEL, LATEST TECHNOLOGY) 1 x Shoto 5.12kw Battery 100 x 6mm Solar Cable 1 x Ac Protection + Changeover 1 x Pvc2 Combiner 10 x Mc4 Connectors 4 x 35mm Lugs 1 x Comms cable 1 x Dc Disconnector 2 x...

www.solarwaysuppliers.co.za

It's decent. Deye is a great true hybrid inverter. Shoto seems a decent match. If you have decent roof real estate for room to expand then 8x slightly lower wattage panels is much of a muchness. If your roof real estate is limited, going higher wattages off the bat is likely a better option. Solarway are legit and usually well priced.
I don't see mention of installation included in that price, unless I missed the obvious. You'd have to budget for that and sparky/COC as well.

Good luck on your solar journey. There is a Luxpower model that has the same functionality essentially, but I reckon Deye is a superior inverter compared to Luxpower.

thank you bud!
Yes you learn alot by reading and the amount of knowledge people have on solar is incredible and the way the make use of the sun to run there systems at its fullest is just remarkable.

To me the biggest concern is more the battery to match it with you inverter, as I noticed some do not like all brands and not sure these people that make up these kits really tend to care so much about it.

 

[Confucius]

You need to really check what’s included in this package.

Rough but realistic pricing

• 1 x Deye 5kw Inverter - 20k
• 8 x 425W Solar Panels (Trina) thinking of going 545W Panels rather - 16k for 545w
• 1 x Shoto 5.12kw Battery - 22k

Battery cable and disconnect and fuses - 1k
Brackets for panels - 6-10k depending on roof
Other cables / breakers / surge protectors -4k
Combiner box per string DIY - 1500 each.

That’s more like 72-76k.

And another 2-4k for a Coc.

can you mixed different wattage solar panals?

The wattage doesn’t really matter, it’s more the current for series panels and voltage for parallel panels but also the IV vs temperature curves. They fluctuate with light / temperature so it’s not ideal to mix different panels.

I’ve mixed 420 and 410w panels of the same manufacture and panel range as well as 365 and 360w.

I just assume they operate at the lower specked panel.

But it’s best to get all the panels of a single mppt / string at once and then when you want to expand, add another string of panels to the other mppt. Panels change so often, it’s very unlikely that you will find the same in the future.

 

[Smurf]

You need to really check what’s included in this package.

Rough but realistic pricing

• 1 x Deye 5kw Inverter - 20k
• 8 x 425W Solar Panels (Trina) thinking of going 545W Panels rather - 16k for 545w
• 1 x Shoto 5.12kw Battery - 22k

Battery cable and disconnect and fuses - 1k
Brackets for panels - 6-10k depending on roof
Other cables / breakers / surge protectors -4k
Combiner box per string DIY - 1500 each.

That’s more like 72-76k.

And another 2-4k for a Coc.



The wattage doesn’t really matter, it’s more the current for series panels and voltage for parallel panels but also the IV vs temperature curves. They fluctuate with light / temperature so it’s not ideal to mix different panels.

I’ve mixed 420 and 410w panels of the same manufacture and panel range as well as 365 and 360w.

I just assume they operate at the lower specked panel.

But it’s best to get all the panels of a single mppt / string at once and then when you want to expand, add another string of panels to the other mppt. Panels change so often, it’s very unlikely that you will find the same in the future.

Here is the breakdown of the total amount of R61 999

• 1 x Deye 5kw Inverter
• 8 x 425W Solar Panels
• 1 x Shoto 5.12kw Battery
• 100 x 6mm Solar Cable
• 1 x Ac Protection
• 1 x Pvc2 Combiner
• 10 x Mc4 Connectors
• 4 x 35mm Lugs
• 1 x Dc Disconnector
• 2 x 35mm Battery Cable

Seems like the complete mounting kit is included for the price.


think I have alot of reading up to do on the panels, cause my plan was to get the intial 545w and at a later stage move those over to the one mppt and then get depending on the price another batch to work on the mppt2 part.

cause to buy another battery would be kind of a waste as the panels will give a bit more ROI as you will utilise sunlight more than the battery and then save up on what you saved and get another battery if it makes sense.

 

[Divan85]

@Smurf - Your list does mention the roof mounting brackets, I think your quote showed them included? They can be very expensive. Do you have the exact model number of the 425W panels included in the quote?

More panels will give you more solar power yes, but unless you are exporting to Eskom you are not going to increase your ROI. If you have someone at home all day then you will save more as the you can run off solar power, however if like with me no one is at home during the day then the solar power is somewhat wasted. It charges the battery full (around 9am in my case) and then the rest of the solar power is not utilized other than the small loads running during the day when no one is there, ie. fridge, freezer, alarm system, electric fence, etc. which does not draw that much power. My geyser runs from the solar during the day because I set the timer that way, so yes some saving there everyday, but that is only for 1 hour.

A second battery would mean longer backup time if loadshedding levels increase. You are also going to drain / discharge your batteries slower and less (percentage wise) than if you only have one battery which means extending the life of your batteries which will increase the ROI. You will also utilize your solar better as you will be using more solar power to charge the two batteries.

Long story short, deciding between more solar panels vs 2nd battery would be different for every household and would be dependent on your usage. In my case I have too much solar (most of my solar power is wasted) and a 2nd battery might have been a better investment as I drain my battery to 35% every night (with or without loadshedding). If I have loadshedding at night then sometimes my battery goes below 35% which is not ideal, battery will switch off at 20% charge. So I have to be careful with running my AC at night on hot days as I am draining my battery to the point that if I have loadshedding at night I could run the battery down to its "switch off" charge level.

 

[Smurf]

@Smurf - Your list does mention the roof mounting brackets, I think your quote showed them included? They can be very expensive. Do you have the exact model number of the 425W panels included in the quote?

More panels will give you more solar power yes, but unless you are exporting to Eskom you are not going to increase your ROI. If you have someone at home all day then you will save more as the you can run off solar power, however if like with me no one is at home during the day then the solar power is somewhat wasted. It charges the battery full (around 9am in my case) and then the rest of the solar power is not utilized other than the small loads running during the day when no one is there, ie. fridge, freezer, alarm system, electric fence, etc. which does not draw that much power. My geyser runs from the solar during the day because I set the timer that way, so yes some saving there everyday, but that is only for 1 hour.

A second battery would mean longer backup time if loadshedding levels increase. You are also going to drain / discharge your batteries slower and less (percentage wise) than if you only have one battery which means extending the life of your batteries which will increase the ROI. You will also utilize your solar better as you will be using more solar power to charge the two batteries.

Long story short, deciding between more solar panels vs 2nd battery would be different for every household and would be dependent on your usage. In my case I have too much solar (most of my solar power is wasted) and a 2nd battery might have been a better investment as I drain my battery to 35% every night (with or without loadshedding). If I have loadshedding at night then sometimes my battery goes below 35% which is not ideal, battery will switch off at 20% charge. So I have to be careful with running my AC at night on hot days as I am draining my battery to the point that if I have loadshedding at night I could run the battery down to its "switch off" charge level.

Thank you for the input

It seems to be the below panels;

https://static.trinasolar.com/sites/default/files/DT_M_A%20Datasheet_VertexS_DE09R.08_EN_2022_A_web.pdf

Fully agree, it would be a waste if you do not use the solar during the day like you should and wasting that energy.

For a 2nd battery sounds like a better option and would carry you longer through longer stages, it still very impressive that you manage to come right with just one battery! I assume a 5.12kwh?

 

[Divan85]

Yes I have a 5.12kWh Volta Stage 1 battery. Only reason I went with it is because I was able to get it at a very good price.

I have to be honest, my system was installed about 3 months ago so I haven't gone through a winter cycle yet so it will be interesting to see how efficiently it operates during the winter when peak sun hours will be much less.

 

[ATB]

When installing a system, CoC and SSEG are required(if you want to be fully legal).