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Debit order fraud

goldfritter said:
It's the general advice of having ~ 3 months' worth of expenses instantly on hand for the sake of an emergency. The last time I used it was when I had to replace two tyres in one go, I don't think Tiger would've let me go with new tyres without having paid? And that came out to more than 10k. Although Frana's 25k would've been plenty.
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How TF did 2 tyres on a Jazz cost R10k? I replace all 4, balance & align for under 5k.

I'd say you got robbed that day anyway.
 
TRINITRON said:
Go back home if its an emergency?
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On two flat tyres?

TRINITRON said:
In case you cant ask your family member who is home to transfer some money to your account (in my case my mum)
Id rather be charged bank fees like instant eft fee if needed than risk losing money.
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But what if your mum also doesn't have access to all her money because she's also out and about with her second phone and dummy account?

TRINITRON said:
BTW, may I ask who you bank with?
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Nedbank.
 
I follow the likes of @Deviation.
I have 2 bank accounts with about R1k in each. There are no banking apps on my phone either. I do keep a credit card on Samsung Pay if needed.
The best they going to do is take my 2 bank cards and go home with R2k.

if they tap my credit card, well shit happens but I will have a better chance of getting the money back.

Edit: I was a victim of almost hijacking 2 years ago. Stole my phone etc No money stolen or injuries., but I learnt my lesson and I'm much more careful.
 
TRINITRON said:
I see the issue, you only have one bank
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Well I also have investments at two different investment firms. Technically three but the one is an old RA that I can't touch. My bank is just my cheque and credit card accounts, the emergency savings "pocket" and then some fixed-term investments (which neither I nor a mugger can access until the term expires).

How would you suggest I rearrange this?
 
Asteroid Z said:
Edit: I was a victim of almost hijacking 2 years ago. Stole my phone etc No money stolen or injuries., but I learnt my lesson and I'm much more careful.
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That sucks dude. At least they only took your phone.
Your health is way more important.
 
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:(

> banking app fraud cases increased by 36%,
techcentral.co.za

Banking app kidnappings are on the rise in South Africa - TechCentral

Banking app kidnappings, with the aim of gaining unauthorised access to victims' money under duress, are on the rise.
techcentral.co.za techcentral.co.za

There is some tips in that link, but it was written by a journalist after all.

I'm with @Deviation on this one.

Security/preparation is never perfect and it's always layered. You cannot prevent someone from breaking into your house, but you can make it difficult, costly and risky and the price to pay is less ease of use for you.

- I have my banking apps on a separate phone that is off and locked away.
- Separate "monthly" account at a different bank that has debit orders against it. Account is filled monthly. No overdraft, ever.
- When "to my account only" debit order, always as "monthly transaction against a *Credit Card*"

Daily driving is Credit Card with daily cash withdrawal limit. If they kidnap me, to drive me around and drain my card, I'm going to assume I'm already dead and that they are dumb because I'm not rich.

Else, if you report the CC loss you are covered by the insurance on the CC

Mastercard Zero Liability Protection Policy | Zero Fraud Liability

Mastercard's Zero Liability policy on credit or debit cards will not hold you responsible for any fraudulent or unauthorized transactions made through your card.
www.mastercard.us www.mastercard.us

and some bank laws:
www.millers.co.za

How far is a bank liable if you lose your credit card and pin?

I lost my wallet with my credit card in it and a piece of paper on which I wrote down my new card pin number. Because I was hoping I may still find my wallet, I didn’t immediately stop my bank card. A few hours later somebody used my card to pay for food on the other side of town. I then...
www.millers.co.za

The safest money, is not your money, i.e. Credit Cards, because there are layers of insurance that almost everyone pays, making for a large insurance pool.
 
Best protective measure is just to make yourself the least obvious and most difficult.

Its hard to kidnap a mop kop that looks fit and marginally jacked driving a picanto vs a old lady in the newest merc wearing guci to
 
Another option for those concerned about being physically coerced into transfers at gunpoint etc. is to use a feature like Samsung's "Secure Folder". It's baked right into the OS for the last few versions of OneUI.

In a nutshell, it's effectively another app drawer hidden within the phone - you can even change the Secure Folder app name and icon to further obscure it from your normal app drawer, or not have a shortcut for it at all if you so wish (Launch from settings).

It facilitates another/alternate instance of any app to be run on the device, or you can just run the apps that you want secured from within only (no duplicate/second instance). It can be secured via biometrics, password or pin and one has the option to encrypt the entire 'partition' on top of everything.

So, for instance, you could avoid having any critical apps on your main app drawer and hide them in this secured area. Great for Banking, 2FA, Brokerage apps etc.. It can handle media as well - PDF statements, images etc.
 
@goldfritter, I'm also with Nedbank and have the same concerns as @Deviation. So, I simply keep minimal money in my current account (less than R1k), I do not have an overdraft and I put all my monthly spending through my credit card - and I mean all of it - paying it back in full each month. Heck, I don't even have the Nedbank app on my phone. The cash withdrawal limit from my credit card is R500.

As others have said, rather let the perps steal the bank's money because it's easier to recover - and the bank is far more likely to take an interest in recovering their money over yours.

I can't really think of an emergency situation where a credit card couldn't be used to sort it out?
 
SteveIndeed said:
@goldfritter, I'm also with Nedbank and have the same concerns as @Deviation. So, I simply keep minimal money in my current account (less than R1k), I do not have an overdraft and I put all my monthly spending through my credit card - and I mean all of it - paying it back in full each month. Heck, I don't even have the Nedbank app on my phone. The cash withdrawal limit from my credit card is R500.

As others have said, rather let the perps steal the bank's money because it's easier to recover - and the bank is far more likely to take an interest in recovering their money over yours.

I can't really think of an emergency situation where a credit card couldn't be used to sort it out?
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Yeah I've been thinking about it, considering rather putting the emergency savings into the credit card, "on top" of the full balance (I also pay my CC off each month).

The only drawback with that is, you lose out on a ton of interest compared to having it in an instant access savings account.
 
For those with investec, they took their app one step further, they allow changing the name/icon in the app itself to hide it.

Options range from weather to shipping to relaxation.
 
ovisser1 said:
For those with investec, they took their app one step further, they allow changing the name/icon in the app itself to hide it.

Options range from weather to shipping to relaxation.
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I'm not convinced this will work though. In the "kidnapping" scenario, they can just force you to log into your Internet banking, even if you don't have an app on your phone. I doubt you'd convince them you don't have Internet banking.
 
goldfritter said:
I'm not convinced this will work though. In the "kidnapping" scenario, they can just force you to log into your Internet banking, even if you don't have an app on your phone. I doubt you'd convince them you don't have Internet banking.
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yea, nothing is 100% safe. But a few people mentioned something along those lines and I thought its cool that the bank offers it.
 
ovisser1 said:
yea, nothing is 100% safe. But a few people mentioned something along those lines and I thought its cool that the bank offers it.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the challenge is balancing security against convenience and the risk of not having money available in a desperate situation.

Ideally one wouldn't do things that decrease convenience and emergency access, without actually increasing security. If you force yourself to jump through all sorts of hoops every day, but the thugs can circumvent all those hoops and still get your money, it wasn't worth the inconvenience .

It's tough to know where to draw that line.
 
goldfritter said:
I'm not convinced this will work though. In the "kidnapping" scenario, they can just force you to log into your Internet banking, even if you don't have an app on your phone. I doubt you'd convince them you don't have Internet banking.
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In this scenario, it may be worth, despite the enormous hassle, having a secondary account with Capitec, for example (because it's cheap) with about R7k in it. One can easily plead poverty with the kidnappers/robbers. It still means you lose the interest on that R7k but it's better than losing your life savings or your life itself.

At least the R7k will sit there undisturbed and earn interest.

Your idea about having only a small amount available in your current account with the real dosh sitting in a notice account is probably the best idea.
 
goldfritter said:
Yeah I've been thinking about it, considering rather putting the emergency savings into the credit card, "on top" of the full balance (I also pay my CC off each month).

The only drawback with that is, you lose out on a ton of interest compared to having it in an instant access savings account.
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I doubt the bank will actively try to recover any of your own money that you put into the card. If your credit limit is high enough, you could just use the bank's money for the emergency and then sink your own money into it on the payment date to settle in full, especially since the debt is interest-free if paid back in full.
 
SteveIndeed said:
In this scenario, it may be worth, despite the enormous hassle, having a secondary account with Capitec, for example (because it's cheap) with about R7k in it. One can easily plead poverty with the kidnappers/robbers. It still means you lose the interest on that R7k but it's better than losing your life savings or your life itself.

At least the R7k will sit there undisturbed and earn interest.

Your idea about having only a small amount available in your current account with the real dosh sitting in a notice account is probably the best idea.
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Or alternatively, have the greater chunk of emergency savings, and also the notice account, with a second bank. Then the primary bank can have only the CC, and the ~ 7k nominal amount of emergency savings. Then have only the primary bank's app on your phone. The CC plus the ~ 7k should be enough to cover emergencies that require truly instant payment while out and about, and should also be enough to satisfy the thugs.
 
goldfritter said:
Or alternatively, have the greater chunk of emergency savings, and also the notice account, with a second bank. Then the primary bank can have only the CC, and the ~ 7k nominal amount of emergency savings. Then have only the primary bank's app on your phone. The CC plus the ~ 7k should be enough to cover emergencies that require truly instant payment while out and about, and should also be enough to satisfy the thugs.
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Good thinking.
 
goldfritter said:
I'm not convinced this will work though. In the "kidnapping" scenario, they can just force you to log into your Internet banking, even if you don't have an app on your phone. I doubt you'd convince them you don't have Internet banking.
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But you can convince them you dont have Investec, and then sign into different online banking
 
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goldfritter said:
Well I also have investments at two different investment firms. Technically three but the one is an old RA that I can't touch. My bank is just my cheque and credit card accounts, the emergency savings "pocket" and then some fixed-term investments (which neither I nor a mugger can access until the term expires).

How would you suggest I rearrange this?
Click to expand...
Well tbh I wasn't trying to offer any advice, I was just going off on the other comments.

The tldr of which was that it seems risky to have your money all in one account. Hence the dummy account comment.

Which can't apply to you if you don't have or open an account at another bank

For interest sake I can mention what I do:
Nedbank CC (10k credit limit), I eft into it whenever necessary.
Capitec and FNB debit accounts for Carb usage etc (Instant eft and Geo-pay). Capitec is also great for debit orders.
Investec for savings account (15 and 32 day notice deposits)

Out of this list I only use the Nedbank CC on a "daily" / swipe basis. Either the (more secure?) Samsung Wallet (Google Wallet stopped working) or the physical card. I have not swiped my Capitec or FNB cards (both debt) in a really long time. TBH I have only used the FNB card once at an ATM to withdraw cash.

My wallet is a smol Polo wallet I paid R400 for, I really like it so I use it as my main. But inside it has my drivers licence, my Nedbank Gold CC card, a Tymebank card with an impressive -R0.36 balance (for pnp smartshopper) and my old student card that has no year on it (I can pass for early 20s / a student when I shave). A R10 note and 2x R5 coins.

If anyone where to mug me its a totally believable setup, they do not need to know about any other accounts etc.

Yes my phone is on the fancier side but whose isn't these days.

(Lets leave it at that for now)
 
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Got another unauthorised debit order - 19 December 2024 - ABSA

DYNAMIC DYNAMIC 14022N @ R95.00

Guys likely banking on the fact that a transaction like this will be missed during the busy festive season.

Check your accounts, peeps!
 
J0N0 said:
I'm sure people at the banks sell peoples card details
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This is how it happens. Bank staff are the ones selling your details, same as how people withdrawing large sums of cash mysteriously get hijacked right after leaving the bank (the staff are always in on it). BEE is a cancer.
 
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