Advice - lithium drop in replacement

[M@tree2]

Hi, looking for some advice on lithium drop in replacement house batteries...

For context, house came with a massive lead acid battery bank and they have seen their time and have finally hit EOL, approximately 8 or 10 years later.
Currently have on paper 35kwh of capacity, 4x12.8v 172ah batteries in series, x4 of those in parallel.
Knock that down to 50% DOD, so useable around 17kwh, more than likely less as batteries are FUBAR.

Facts for quick reference:
2x 5kw inverters in parallel
~3.8kw of solar panels (just a correction here)
Wind turbine, approx 150w, but varies greatly.
Evening use of around 1000w.
(Yes, quite high, but 2x desktops, fridge, deep freeze and a few other things add up rather quickly.)

Pool pump is already a 72v solar pump, geyser is also solar, gas stoves etc.

Aircons etc will be turned off automatically during loadshedding using a sonoff loadshedder, allowing for some automation of non-essential appliances to be disconnected.
Looking for something that does at least 6000 cycles at around an 80-90% DOD, with the option to extend to 20kwh (4x batteries) in the future.
Current plan is to install 2x 5.1kwh lithium's and upgrade later.

Any specific products to stay away from? Dyness are looking like a good cost effective option?

Based in the Northern Suburbs (CPT)
Any advice or recommendations on installers and products would be welcome!

 

[Qui_Illustrati]

Stay far away from SVolt, N-Energy, ConderEnergy, ZTE and any other brands that just seem too cheap. I'd also add Hubble to the list. Forums are flooded with Hubble issues. Pylontech is overrated IMHO and forums are also flooded with users having way too many issues. I had a pylontech before and it did not behave as flawlessly as I hoped.

Have a 10kwh Lifepower from @ScottulusMaximus and I have to say I'm thoroughly impressed with it. Daily cycle it to 25%, discharge stats for the past year currently at 2.571MWh and charge at 2.745MWh. State of Health still at 100%. Sure they're 2nd life cells, but they will last for ages if used within spec. Great bang for buck I reckon.

You might want to also look at expanding your solar array, considering the rebate and panel prices at their lowest in ages.

 

[M@tree2]

Stay far away from SVolt, N-Energy, ConderEnergy, ZTE and any other brands that just seem too cheap. I'd also add Hubble to the list. Forums are flooded with Hubble issues. Pylontech is overrated IMHO and forums are also flooded with users having way too many issues. I had a pylontech before and it did not behave as flawlessly as I hoped.

Have a 10kwh Lifepower from @ScottulusMaximus and I have to say I'm thoroughly impressed with it. Daily cycle it to 25%, discharge stats for the past year currently at 2.571MWh and charge at 2.745MWh. State of Health still at 100%. Sure they're 2nd life cells, but they will last for ages if used within spec. Great bang for buck I reckon.

You might want to also look at expanding your solar array, considering the rebate and panel prices at their lowest in ages.

Thanks, will stay away from them as well...
I will have a look at those as well, based on your usage those seem to be a very good option!

Am looking at that as well, as we already have a spare charge controller and wind turbine sitting in the garage. Have a plan for mounting the 2nd turbine, just not sure if the cost to benefit ratio is worth it or not...
The spare charge controller has capacity for 600w of solar, so could add 2x ~540w panels in series.
Problem I have is space on the roof, pool pump panels take up a lot of space already, as well as the solar heating for the pool (already downsized that to 2x panels instead of 6), could potentially do another 6x 540w panels on east/west facing roof, which would equate to around 2kw in perfect conditions.
That would have to be done via a separate MPPT charge controller afaik, will investigate the inverters max solar capacity.

 

[Qui_Illustrati]

Thanks, will stay away from them as well...
I will have a look at those as well, based on your usage those seem to be a very good option!

Am looking at that as well, as we already have a spare charge controller and wind turbine sitting in the garage. Have a plan for mounting the 2nd turbine, just not sure if the cost to benefit ratio is worth it or not...
The spare charge controller has capacity for 600w of solar, so could add 2x ~540w panels in series.
Problem I have is space on the roof, pool pump panels take up a lot of space already, as well as the solar heating for the pool (already downsized that to 2x panels instead of 6), could potentially do another 6x 540w panels on east/west facing roof, which would equate to around 2kw in perfect conditions.
That would have to be done via a separate MPPT charge controller afaik, will investigate the inverters max solar capacity.

If you decide to not commission that 2nd wind turbine, please keep me in mind if you sell for a reasonable price. I have absolutely no need for it, but I would like to play with it for a bit 😃

Out of interest what is the turbine specs?

East\West panel setup is actually quite decent considering you don't have much north facing roof real estate. It's not nothing and with the panel prices makes sense throwing all you can at a system I reckon.

 

[Confucius]

Stay far away from SVolt, N-Energy, ConderEnergy, ZTE and any other brands that just seem too cheap. I'd also add Hubble to the list. Forums are flooded with Hubble issues. Pylontech is overrated IMHO and forums are also flooded with users having way too many issues. I had a pylontech before and it did not behave as flawlessly as I hoped.

Have a 10kwh Lifepower from @ScottulusMaximus and I have to say I'm thoroughly impressed with it. Daily cycle it to 25%, discharge stats for the past year currently at 2.571MWh and charge at 2.745MWh. State of Health still at 100%. Sure they're 2nd life cells, but they will last for ages if used within spec. Great bang for buck I reckon.

You might want to also look at expanding your solar array, considering the rebate and panel prices at their lowest in ages.

If you plan on adding batteries over time, the. I wouldn’t use anything other than pylontech. That’s based on my personal experience as well as brother and friends that all went the same route. I started with 2 us3000 and built my bank over 2-3 years to -42kwh without any issues.

Many other brands have changed models, cell types, configurations which make it difficult to add on later on. Some brands also no longer exist.

 

[yourang]

Stay far away from SVolt, N-Energy, ConderEnergy, ZTE and any other brands that just seem too cheap. I'd also add Hubble to the list. Forums are flooded with Hubble issues. Pylontech is overrated IMHO and forums are also flooded with users having way too many issues. I had a pylontech before and it did not behave as flawlessly as I hoped.

Have a 10kwh Lifepower from @ScottulusMaximus and I have to say I'm thoroughly impressed with it. Daily cycle it to 25%, discharge stats for the past year currently at 2.571MWh and charge at 2.745MWh. State of Health still at 100%. Sure they're 2nd life cells, but they will last for ages if used within spec. Great bang for buck I reckon.

You might want to also look at expanding your solar array, considering the rebate and panel prices at their lowest in ages.

SVolt, N-Energy, ConderEnergy, ZTE

These are actually not super bad did few install on them and few other guys also, Mainly Svolts, not a single problem yet.

Main thing is you get like 0% support of you buy them.
No fancy interface.
Normally much lower discharge and charge ratings then your high end battries.

Though the price on them is just really good.

Had my buddy open them see what happenings he says the cells are all good that they use, the just risk is on much cheaper BMS.

 

[M@tree2]

If you decide to not commission that 2nd wind turbine, please keep me in mind if you sell for a reasonable price. I have absolutely no need for it, but I would like to play with it for a bit 😃

Out of interest what is the turbine specs?

East\West panel setup is actually quite decent considering you don't have much north facing roof real estate. It's not nothing and with the panel prices makes sense throwing all you can at a system I reckon.

Haha, sure will do.
Seems we are sitting on the fence about putting it up currently, just running into issues on mounting it, current one is on the chimney on the 2nd storey of the house. 2nd kit would need to be at roughly the same height, but in a place to not cast shadow on PV panels.

So the turbine is a 1.5kw 48v ac turbine, which then steps to DC 48v (nominal). (Correction on voltage)
Start up speed is around 3m/s and rated speed for a full 1500w is around 12m/s. Survival at 45m/s...
Have found that wind down here in the Cape is rather turbulent and not a constant direction wise.

North facing is already full, unfortunately. Will remember that, Had a look again this evening, have enough space for another ~4kw of capacity on east west. Then capacity for ~2kw on a north roof, but it is a flat patio roof which will need to be rebuilt for structural soundness and capability to withstand weight of 8x550w panels. This turns into a rather longer term project, and a costly one at that.

If you plan on adding batteries over time, the. I wouldn’t use anything other than pylontech. That’s based on my personal experience as well as brother and friends that all went the same route. I started with 2 us3000 and built my bank over 2-3 years to -42kwh without any issues.

Many other brands have changed models, cell types, configurations which make it difficult to add on later on. Some brands also no longer exist.

Even with all the issues Pylontech have been having, read of a good few issues on the US3000s and 5000s?

Agreed on the brands etc being a bigger issue, the longggg term goal would be to have around 30kwh of storage.

These are actually not super bad did few install on them and few other guys also, Mainly Svolts, not a single problem yet.

Main thing is you get like 0% support of you buy them.
No fancy interface.
Normally much lower discharge and charge ratings then your high end battries.

Though the price on them is just really good.

Had my buddy open them see what happenings he says the cells are all good that they use, the just risk is on much cheaper BMS.

Interesting, not really wanting to go on the overly cheap end on bms and batteries.
Need at least a 1C battery for the uses here, borehole pump, water pumps and a few other things.
Buy once, cry once I guess 😂

 

[M@tree2]

Any reason no-one has mentioned Blue nova, see they are on special in a good few places at the moment?

Different topic, but updated Axpert inverters from U1 5230 to 73.00e and seems to have fixed some of the bugs from the previous firmware, so pleased with that.

 

[Switch]

Even with all the issues Pylontech have been having, read of a good few issues on the US3000s and 5000s?

Agreed on the brands etc being a bigger issue, the longggg term goal would be to have around 30kwh of storage.

Imo in a lot of cases it isn't the actual [reputable] battery that's the problem, it's the battery and inverter combination that don't play well together that creates the problem, which gets exasperated when adding in an in-between controller on a pi that doesn't have the complete bug free programming to communicate with both the inverter and battery bms, this also gets issues when firmware upgrades are done that for any of the three components that make improvements but inadvertently break compatibility.

 

[M@tree2]

Imo in a lot of cases it isn't the actual [reputable] battery that's the problem, it's the battery and inverter combination that don't play well together that creates the problem, which gets exasperated when adding in an in-between controller on a pi that doesn't have the complete bug free programming to communicate with both the inverter and battery bms, this also gets issues when firmware upgrades are done that for any of the three components that make improvements but inadvertently break compatibility.

Sure, and proprietary software that is designed for this application, such as Solar assistant with a known working firmware on the inverter, would something like that work?
I see a lot of manufacturers update firmware on their lithium cells quite regularly which could pose an issue when stuff breaks, as you mentioned...

Not necessarily wanting to run the battery in pure voltage mode as this doesn't reflect a pure SOC.
Also not wanting to get rid of 2x 5kva (4kw) inverters simply cause they can't measure a SOC correctly, considering that an 8kw inverter is a serious investment, hence the Pi with the solar assistant or the likes...

 

[Confucius]

Even with all the issues Pylontech have been having, read of a good few issues on the US3000s and 5000s?

I have come across many threads of issues from dodgy installers wanting to push their own brands claiming pylontech is shit.

I’ve seen a few threads where end users have issues with cells and they are generally replaced pretty easily or corrected with a firmware upgrade.

I’ve also read about users doing firmware upgrades and batteries getting bricked but they are generally recoverable afterwards.

I don’t lurk the other forums much so maybe there’s issues I don’t know of.

However, you have to remember, pylontech sells a shitload of batteries and there’s going to be instances where some are faulty.

On Powerforum, if they are pushing a certain brand, they will make sure there’s no bad publicity that brand, even to the extend of banning people and deleted threads so make sure you don’t rely on such info.

Only disadvantage with pylontech is that it’s not a 1C battery but they did update the firmware some time ago on the up5000 that takes it to 0.8-0.9c. Can’t remember the exact value.

Compatibility with the inverter is also important though. With Deye and its rebrands, you just connect a normal rj45 lan cable and everything works. Same with Victron

Anyway, good luck with your search.

I’ve also heard good things about freedom won lite range but they are expensive.

I’ve used a Volta battery with a Luxpower inverter and wouldn’t use that combo again.

 

[RIK]

Pylontech is overrated IMHO and forums are also flooded with users having way too many issues. I had a pylontech before and it did not behave as flawlessly as I hoped.

Link(s) please, cos i lurk forums like Energytalk, MyBB and Power Forum and no floods there.

@OP - I have 8 x Pylontech 3000B's , 4 years now and not a single issue.

I am actually abusing them unintentionally, as i forget to turn on some geysers in the morning, and the panels throw 300 amps into that pack.
The limit is 200 amps by the way, so I'm really taking chances.

I am fully off the grid and i consume on average 1.8MW per month , and the SOH is sitting at 96% .

My installer was Jaco - Go Solar , so perhaps you can call him and ask for his advice, as he installs plenty of batteries daily.

Good luck and please do tell which battery you end up buying.

 

[Qui_Illustrati]

Link(s) please, cos i lurk forums like Energytalk, MyBB and Power Forum and no floods there.

@OP - I have 8 x Pylontech 3000B's , 4 years now and not a single issue.

I am actually abusing them unintentionally, as i forget to turn on some geysers in the morning, and the panels throw 300 amps into that pack.
The limit is 200 amps by the way, so I'm really taking chances.

I am fully off the grid and i consume on average 1.8MW per month , and the SOH is sitting at 96% .

My installer was Jaco - Go Solar , so perhaps you can call him and ask for his advice, as he installs plenty of batteries daily.

Good luck and please do tell which battery you end up buying.

PowerForum is a great forum. Good people with expansive knowledge and more importanly localized knowledge. Only slight issue is the knowledgebase is somewhat limited and most of the real nuggets of wisdom are isolated to a few well versed individuals. Energytalk, I find pointless and redundant for the most part. Not to mention the horrible site layout. I check in there once in a while and usually don't find much of value. MyBB is a cesspool of childish wankers belittling each other at ever chance, and finding any data of real value is too cumbersome having to wade through all the usual garbage and egos. For solar related information MyBB shouldn't even the option of last resort I reckon.

I find the most wealth of information with real world subject matter experts here DIY Solar Power Forum.

As opposed to posting links of Pylontech woes, do a search for "Pylontech" on DiySolarForum.

Also, my view on Pylontech and it's nuances or inadequacies were based on my personal experience. There's definitely better options that are usually more cost effective. Still my opinion. Not taking away from your great experience. Glad to hear you're happy with your investment. That's definitely the only thing that matters I reckon.