Bad deal with @mandarin

Yusuf · Sep 28, 2020

Hi guys had a pretty bad experience with the seller and basically lied in the thread.

Link: [Sale] - 3 X WD Red 3 TB drives | Storage / Drives

Buyer: @Yusuf
Seller: @Mandarin

Purchased the 2 drives from him for my NVR, and only managed to test the one a while after as i did not have a SATA connector, When i did get a sata connector, connected the second drive and the NVR would not accept it as it has errors, I contacted him and he said health was fine which is not the case. Eventually got the drive into a NAS and it fails the Smart test, contacted COREX today to check on warranty since on his thread it says less than 2 years old and WD red come with a 3 year warranty, they said the warranty expired Sept 2019, which means the drive is way older than said in the thread.

Power on hours is 1009 days

WDC

Model:
WD30EFRX-68EUZN0

Disk Capacity:
2.73 TB (3 TB)

Temperature:
---

Disk Access History (I/O):
Error

Disk SMART Information:
Warning

Power On Hours:
1006 day(s) 2 hour(s)

Abnormal Sector Count:
38

Test time:
Mon Sep 21 17:25:46 2020

Test result:
Completed: read failure (Complete test)

ScorpioMan · Sep 28, 2020

@Mandarin any feedback ?

ScorpioMan · Sep 29, 2020

@Yusuf , did you get any feedback yet on this ?

@Mandarin , you have until morning to respond

Yusuf · Sep 29, 2020

No feedback from @Mandarin

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ScorpioMan · Sep 30, 2020

Ban overturned.

@Mandarin state your side please.

Mandarin · Oct 3, 2020

Firstly let me state that I am not on my pc daily. I have patients I need to see and more urgent matters to attend to that hdd issues.

Secondly. I have been a member for 10 years on here with a excellent feedback score and many people have dealt with me. For me to be permanently banned like this without giving me the opportunity to explain myself or maybe sending me a pm, as a senior member with a good reputation, is not acceptable.

Thirdly, if you review my add you will see under warranty I VERY clearly stated NO. Some were imported hence the NO warranty. The 4 WD red drives I bought were roughly bought within the same time spec. I did not check each one individually and gave an estimate. I did not think this was important since I did state there was no warranty on the disks.

Fourthly, as I do with all my items, I did run a test to check the health.

As you can see the health status on the hdd in question shows green. It is in full working condition when it left me.

I took pics of all drives.

Fifthly the drives were sold (yes 2 of them to same user) on 21 July.

]

I was notified of a problem only on the 21 Aug. There was no test done to confirm if everything works. Anything could have happened to the drive in the meantime and it is not fair to assume that I take responsibly for this. I have actually been in the same position before because I did not immediately reported a problem and I had to assume that responsibility. Senior members know this is imperative.

I had good feedback on all other hdds sold that were tested in the very same way. Even 2 of the IBMs I sold.

PS don’t call me a liar. I drove around 100km to meet you at no extra charge to you, but at my cost to hand you the drives in person. Please don’t forget to add that to your accusations.
You had my nr. You could also have called me but you chose to defame me in this manner and have people question my reputation and creeibilty.

Please take responsibility for your irresponsibility.

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ScorpioMan · Oct 3, 2020

@Mandarin , Thank you for your response.

1. You were banned for ignoring this bad deal thread, despite being online multiple times after it was created and you were tagged.
You could have acknowledged the thread and said you will respond when you get a chance and that would have been it.

2. A bad deal is a bad deal and needs to be attended to by everyone regardless of how long one has been on the forum.

3. The report attached was ran on the 7th Of July, even thought the drives were sold on the 21st, anything could have happened between then and the actual sale date, THIS however that not mean that the drive was faulty when you dropped it off and the issue with the drive only being reported a month later does not help matters because the drive could have died after you dropped it off.

@Yusuf there was an obvious error with the age of the specific drive based on your information but thats not why the bad deal thread, the thread is based on the faulty drive, which could have happened anytime as per point 3 above.

PsyWulf · Oct 3, 2020

Also,that scan,while the dot's green at the top there are warnings for reallocated sectors,which is most certainly not 100%

I can attest how quickly shit can go South with a drive when bad sectors show up - from my own recent sale where there wasnt even a reallocation count,buyer had issues the same night he collected,next day he brought it back the sentinel health degraded to in the 70's,a day later it dropped to below 30%

My storage arrays wouldn't take a 99% drive,so while it may look useable it might not necessarily be for everything

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Yusuf · Oct 3, 2020

Mandarin said:
Firstly let me state that I am not on my pc daily. I have patients I need to see and more urgent matters to attend to that hdd issues.

Secondly. I have been a member for 10 years on here with a excellent feedback score and many people have dealt with me. For me to be permanently banned like this without giving me the opportunity to explain myself or maybe sending me a pm, as a senior member with a good reputation, is not acceptable.

Thirdly, if you review my add you will see under warranty I VERY clearly stated NO. Some were imported hence the NO warranty. The 4 WD red drives I bought were roughly bought within the same time spec. I did not check each one individually and gave an estimate. I did not think this was important since I did state there was no warranty on the disks.

Fourthly, as I do with all my items, I did run a test to check the health.

As you can see the health status on the hdd in question shows green. It is in full working condition when it left me.

I took pics of all drives.

Fifthly the drives were sold (yes 2 of them to same user) on 21 July.

I was notified of a problem only on the 21 Aug. There was no test done to confirm if everything works. Anything could have happened to the drive in the meantime and it is not fair to assume that I take responsibly for this. I have actually been in the same position before because I did not immediately reported a problem and I had to assume that responsibility. Senior members know this is imperative.

I had good feedback on all other hdds sold that were tested in the very same way. Even 2 of the IBMs I sold.

PS don’t call me a liar. I drove around 100km to meet you at no extra charge to you, but at my cost to hand you the drives in person. Please don’t forget to add that to your accusations.
You had my nr. You could also have called me but you chose to defame me in this manner and have people question my reputation and creeibilty.

Please take responsibility for your irresponsibility.

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ScorpioMan86 said:
@Mandarin , Thank you for your response.

1. You were banned for ignoring this bad deal thread, despite being online multiple times after it was created and you were tagged.
You could have acknowledged the thread and said you will respond when you get a chance and that would have been it.

2. A bad deal is a bad deal and needs to be attended to by everyone regardless of how long one has been on the forum.

3. The report attached was ran on the 7th Of July, even thought the drives were sold on the 21st, anything could have happened between then and the actual sale date, THIS however that not mean that the drive was faulty when you dropped it off and the issue with the drive only being reported a month later does not help matters because the drive could have died after you dropped it off.

@Yusuf there was an obvious error with the age of the specific drive based on your information but thats not why the bad deal thread, the thread is based on the faulty drive, which could have happened anytime as per point 3 above.

Your first picture shows some issues with the drive. The reallocation count, reallocation event count and current pending errors count. This is not 100% health.

Number 2 I contacted you a few times on pm and you did not respond

Number 3 i did not meet you but sent a courier to collect the drives from you. So you did not drive 100km to meet me but you did mess the couriers around which i let slide. That screenshot is a deal with another person and not me.

I'm saying the first time I spun up the disk it didn't work

Inside see no warranty but I also did check that it has a 3 year warranty I'm SA. If the drives were the age stated I could have rma'd it and got it sorted.

So age is definately an issue here.

Anyway il write it off as school fees but karma is a b!tch

Yusuf · Oct 5, 2020

Exactly. the NVR completely refused the disk and the NAS is going crazy with it.

Mandarin · Oct 5, 2020

The health report stated green status. That means disk health is good.

I stated reports were available and you were free to ask for them if you had doubts.

Again I STATED no warranty. NO WARRANTY. They were internationally bought. If you were unsure, you could have asked why they had no warranty.

You stated that I messed the courier around? Please see attached how I tried to accommodate you like I have always done with all other deals. Yes I did drive 100km for the sale of another drive sold same time as I sold yours.

Bellow is correspondence regarding collection.

Toxxyc · Oct 7, 2020

@Mandarin how does your test state 69 hours as the power-on count, but @Yusuf reports 1009 days? That's a significant difference, so somewhere, someone is lying.

Yusuf · Oct 7, 2020

This is taken now

It won't even run a full test. This is on a QNAP nas

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Oj0 · Oct 7, 2020

Toxxyc said:
@Mandarin how does your test state 69 hours as the power-on count, but @Yusuf reports 1009 days? That's a significant difference, so somewhere, someone is lying.

The raw value is 5a6c, which is 23149 hours in base 10. That translates to 964.5 days.

Zerolag · Oct 7, 2020

Would maybe suggest Yusuf attach a screenshot of the drive scan with the serial number of the problem drive.
Because there were two hard drives he bought.
So Mandarin attaching screenshots of one drive is not the full story.
Also Mandarin wouldn't know which drive to send screenshots of since Yusuf didn't say which serial number drive the issue is.
So some wonky info there that potentially means nothing.

On a side note, no Mandarin, passing the reallocation threshold is NOT 100% health.
100% health is No errors.
There is a difference between "its okay and works" vs "its 100% excellent"
Calling a hard drive with 192 reallocated sectors 100% is like calling a gpu covered in small scratches "excellent" in an ad.
Speaking of you did list those drives as "Excellent". But I can see from the pics that some of them had some scratches, and some small rips? indents? in the plastic.
Personally I wouldn't list that as Excellent.
But thats a personal thing

PsyWulf · Oct 7, 2020

Green just means it's useable and hasn't failed yet,so it hadn't blown up yet,but any proper tools would be warning

Look a liiiiittle further and you'll note the issues in your screenshot

Example of how HDSentinel treats the drive I'm using as example:

Health is baaaaaarely in the green,though this disk wouldn't work for a NAS,or pass a smart test

Why is it's health declining?

Looks like the reallocation counters are climbing

Mandarin said:
The health report stated green status. That means disk health is good.

Mandarin · Oct 7, 2020

Toxxyc said:
@Mandarin how does your test state 69 hours as the power-on count, but @Yusuf reports 1009 days? That's a significant difference, so somewhere, someone is lying.

Well at that time I did not own a server or desktop so I could test the drives before selling them. I bought a docking station from takealot on the 26 June so I could test the drives to be sure they are in working order and to get health reports to cover myself.

See below

Never used the docking station or drives since. I only had a laptop at that time and still do. The drives after the test were stored in a box safely but never out of sight. Never used after the test done. I had no use for tem anymore as my server was gone.

Docking station delivered 6 July
Test done at 9pm 7 July with 69 hrs. I cannot change those nrs on report and they are for that drive and serial nr.
Sold 21 July
I did not use hdd after test as I had nowhere to use it. Only a laptop. Everything was in storage at that time.
That is 937hrs later on the 21 Sept.

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Mandarin · Oct 7, 2020

But it DID pass a SMART test as posted and it worked 100% in my synology with 6 other drives until I removed them. I only tested to to make sure. I was not even planning on testing them as all of them worked fine in my NAS when I removed them.

Yusuf · Oct 7, 2020

Wiℤard said:
If the drive was internationally bought why does Corex say the warranty expired Sept 2019?

Maybe there are 2 drives being confused with each other?

PsyWulf said:
Green just means it's useable and hasn't failed yet,so it hadn't blown up yet,but any proper tools would be warning

Look a liiiiittle further and you'll note the issues in your screenshot

Example of how HDSentinel treats the drive I'm using as example:

Health is baaaaaarely in the green,though this disk wouldn't work for a NAS,or pass a smart test

Why is it's health declining?

Looks like the reallocation counters are climbing

Zerolag said:
Would maybe suggest Yusuf attach a screenshot of the drive scan with the serial number of the problem drive.
Because there were two hard drives he bought.
So Mandarin attaching screenshots of one drive is not the full story.
Also Mandarin wouldn't know which drive to send screenshots of since Yusuf didn't say which serial number drive the issue is.
So some wonky info there that potentially means nothing.

On a side note, no Mandarin, passing the reallocation threshold is NOT 100% health.
100% health is No errors.
There is a difference between "its okay and works" vs "its 100% excellent"
Calling a hard drive with 192 reallocated sectors 100% is like calling a gpu covered in small scratches "excellent" in an ad.
Speaking of you did list those drives as "Excellent". But I can see from the pics that some of them had some scratches, and some small rips? indents? in the plastic.
Personally I wouldn't list that as Excellent.
But thats a personal thing

The actual drive.

The other one is in the NVR. This one is in the NAS. Had no issue with the other one.

Date of manufacture on drive is Aug 2016

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PsyWulf · Oct 7, 2020

Mandarin said:
Test done at 9pm 7 July with 69 hrs. I cannot change those nrs on report and they are for that drive and serial nr.
Sold 21 July
I did not use hdd after test as I had nowhere to use it. Only a laptop. Everything was in storage at that time.
That is 937hrs later on the 21 Sept.

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Now I know there's horse-doggery at play here
That 69 in the power on hours count is definitely not the actual hours number
You need to check the RAW value

5A6D hex is 23149 hours,aka 964 days

Oj0 · Oct 7, 2020

Mandarin said:
Test done at 9pm 7 July with 69 hrs. I cannot change those nrs on report and they are for that drive and serial nr.
Sold 21 July
I did not use hdd after test as I had nowhere to use it. Only a laptop. Everything was in storage at that time.
That is 937hrs later on the 21 Sept.

Your software incorrectly interpreted the hex value. The raw value shows almost three years of use. We're talking a power on time of almost 1000 DAYS, not HOURS. The 964.5 days shown on your test to the 1,009 days on his test is a difference of 44.5 days, which makes perfect sense given when it was bought.

The question now remains, how did the drive get to three years of on time if it wasn't used? Both your test (5a6c base 16 hours) and his (1009 days) both show extensive usage.

Mandarin · Oct 7, 2020

Let me explain myself then.
I got divorced. Left the home where my wife was staying in. All my stuff I had left went into storage and I went to stay with my brother almost for a year where I only had a laptop. Everything else, all my stuff were in storage. This was Jan 2019. It was only taken out and tested before I decided to sell it.
You will see many other things sold at the same time. Incl my speakers, amp, oppo etc.
So if I tell you it wasn’t used since Jan 2o19. It wasn’t. As I said, it worked 100% on my synology with several other drives with no issue at all.
As I said. I bought the docking station to check the drive before selling it.
There you go.... want me to add the settlement agreement?

Zerolag · Oct 8, 2020

Well something is clearly up here with the days/hours runtime.
I agree Mandarin's software was not showing correctly. Perhaps it can't read that high or it overflowed the content box. Because why is there a Zero in-front of the 69. That to me is not normal. Unless it is some app i don't use for drive checking.)

I think what it comes down to at the end of the day is:
1. Ignore the hours of runtime each software is
2. Focus on the drive error count since both parties can agree on that.

The drives were listed as "Excellent" 100% health.
It is very clear the drive/s have gone past their reallocation threshold. Therefore they cannot be 100% health.
From that view I would argue the listing was false (even if the seller did not intend it to be so. Never attribute something to malice if it can be attributed to ignorance or accident. )
With that in mind, I would recommend a full reversal.
Yusuf do a full scan of both drives with screenshots of the serial numbers IN the scans.
Mandarin can confirm, with the picture he took of the drives for the sale thread or with any note he took at the time, if those drives are indeed the ones he sold.
Then they can be shipped or dropped of at Mandarin.
He can run tests again if he likes.

Then a refund i guess.

Just on a side note. I only saw which HDD dock Mandarin bought now.
That thing is a piece of junk and often gives errors when you are doing anything more than copying or checking on data.
The units I have used of that model had funky usb controllers. Often not allowing certain information to pass through from the connected drive. For example, I wanted to use the free Crucial version of Acronis to clone a drive to a crucial drive. But through the dock the Acronis Crucial version could not detect that the drive was a Crucial drive.
Had to pull out a better dock and that one could detect it.
That said in this case it looks like an app failure on the hour count side since the HEX value is correct.

Yusuf · Oct 8, 2020

im busy testing the disk now using the WD software, it says 90 hours to complete. I have to run it as an external disk using an old WD sata adaptor though as I only have a laptop.

I can send the disk back to mandarin if he does a transfer first, it would be fine if one of the mods can act as a middleman for the refund. i.e hold the funds until mandarin receives the disk back.

at the end of the day disk health was not 100%, as is shown by mine and his screenshots, it is also older than the 2 years as stated, both shown by the date of manufacture and the running hours.

@Mandarin has done a ton of deals on carb and av forum and I am sure he will live up to his integrity as his profile shows.

Yusuf · Oct 8, 2020

Test cannot complete.

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Toxxyc · Oct 14, 2020

Drive is screwed. @Mandarin sorry for your situation and all that, but you gotta step up here. 3 years' power on time is quite a lot. Can't be less than 2 years old if it's been running for more than that time at the very least.

Mandarin · Oct 19, 2020

I will refund the R800. No problem but some things money can’t buy back. Please keep the drive.

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Yusuf · Nov 2, 2020

Mandarin said:
I will refund the R800. No problem but some things money can’t buy back. Please keep the drive.

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@Mandarin sent you bank details on the 22nd no reply yet. I also asked for you address so that I can send the disk back to you.

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Mandarin · Nov 9, 2020

Keep the drive. What must I do with it now? Will refund as I said I would.

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Toxxyc · Nov 11, 2020

@Mandarin when is this guy getting his refund?

Bad deal with @mandarin

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