NEED ADVICE! Rear ended a day after I bought my ST

EnderZ · Feb 9, 2020

Hi guys.

One of the worst things happened to my brand new second hand 2013 Fiesta ST on Friday evening.

I picked her up from a private seller after Wesbank payment confirmation was received on Thursday afternoon.
I was boxed in and had to watch being rear-ended in my mirror by a Hilux sitting at a red robot. I knew it was over for my baby when I saw he wasn't slowing down from 400m+ away.

This is my first ever accident and I am in pure shock. I am in need of insurance advice. I am only 19 years old, this is my first car and insurance.

The car was financed at 172k including my 50k deposit at the rate of 13% over 72 months. I did not opt for a gap shortfall cover. My insurance (Naked insurance/Hollard) says the value of the car is 134k (this is where I start shitting myself because I bought her for way more and I didn't bother adjusting the price as I didn't expect to be in a rear-end a day after I got her.)

The other party (Hilux) is fully liable and my insurance has a voice log with him admitting this when I called for tow truck assistance. Can my insurance fight for my deposit and settlement price back?

https://imgur.com/a/OoiYa0x

Supreme · Feb 9, 2020

Looks repairable? don't think they would write that off. Airbags didn't pop right?

solz · Feb 9, 2020

I sure hope the other party has insurance as this then should fall under his insurance. They would cover third-party upto normally big value, but would probably go max book value of your car.

So really hope he has insurance as they would assist in claiming directly via them, but if he doesn't they can try laim against him but don't hold your breath on this. As this could be a long one where he ends up paying you monthly if you get anything out of him.

Hope that the repair cosylt is still less then your insured amount. If chassis is somehow bent most insurance will write it off, this is the scare side of it for being under insured as you will still owe the bank a good amount and have no car...
But I really hope it's not that and that hilux has insurance.

EnderZ · Feb 9, 2020

Supreme said:
Looks repairable? don't think they would write that off. Airbags didn't pop right?

solz said:
I sure hope the other party has insurance as this then should fall under his insurance. They would cover third-party upto normally big value, but would probably go max book value of your car.

So really hope he has insurance as they would assist in claiming directly via them, but if he doesn't they can try laim against him but don't hold your breath on this. As this could be a long one where he ends up paying you monthly if you get anything out of him.

Hope that the repair cosylt is still less then your insured amount. If chassis is somehow bent most insurance will write it off, this is the scare side of it for being under insured as you will still owe the bank a good amount and have no car...
But I really hope it's not that and that hilux has insurance.

No airbags were blown and she still drove herself on the flatbed.

He was insured and his broker came out which made me kinda skeptical (a friend)

solz · Feb 9, 2020

EnderZ said:
No airbags were blown and she still drove herself on the flatbed.

He was insured and his broker came out which made me kinda skeptical (a friend)

Yeah with cost of airbags it's a good sign, but really hope that the insurance doesn't say chassis is bent as they will then write it off. But from the pics looks okay to me would peg it around 60-80k, but I ain't no mechanic.

But having your broker come out, sounds just abit doggy.

Just a thought did you pay insurance before you went to fetch the car?? As some only insure you after the first payment and I always opt for this no matter what.

EnderZ · Feb 9, 2020

Sorry, I was confused with FNB valuation and Naked, naked's confirmation says:

Vehicle Value (@quote date)* R142 400

*Your car is insured for its full retail value (which is higher than “Trade” or “Market” value) as at the time of the incident

EnderZ · Feb 9, 2020

solz said:
Yeah with cost of airbags it's a good sign, but really hope that the insurance doesn't say chassis is bent as they will then write it off. But from the pics looks okay to me would peg it around 60-80k, but I ain't no mechanic.

But having your broker come out, sounds just abit doggy.

Just a thought did you pay insurance before you went to fetch the car?? As some only insure you after the first payment and I always opt for this no matter what.

Yes, it was paid on Wednesday as with finance you require to give an insurance quotation before contract is given.

I sent the verification photos to naked on Friday morning.

bythecantloads · Feb 9, 2020

Let me know how Naked resolves this issue, looking at changing to them seeing as Outsurance quotes me R1360pm for a 2015 Kia Rio and Naked quotes me R670.

Derail over, hope you get sorted.

ovisser1 · Feb 9, 2020

bythecantloads said:
Let me know how Naked resolves this issue, looking at changing to them seeing as Outsurance quotes me R1360pm for a 2015 Kia Rio and Naked quotes me R670.

Derail over, hope you get sorted.

@D3TTOL can also give you and answer.
He had an accident a few days days after switching to them and they paid out

solz · Feb 9, 2020

EnderZ said:
Yes, it was paid on Wednesday as with finance you require to give an insurance quotation before contract is given.

I sent the verification photos to naked on Friday morning.

Great stuff man glad you did that payment it's just extra security on your hard earned cash. I had the option to pay later and Absa was fine with it but I opted to pay before pickup as was just a few bucks for the pro-rata fee.

Hobo Joe · Feb 10, 2020

As said previously, they will most likely repair and not write it off. Damage looks mainly cosmetic (going by the pictures and you stating that it still drives).

Had a similar incident about 2-3 years ago, and the guilty party didn't have insurance

Damage was 80-100k, but I only paid the excess. It's been almost three years and the insurance company has still not recovered the amount from the guilty party. At least I was not out of pocket for the full amount, and I realized that they would likely not get reimbursed and I would not get my excess back either. Maybe you'll be more fortunate on the recovery of the damages as the person who hit you is insured.

beevis · Feb 10, 2020

Sorry for your incident. Seems like you got some front damage. That car has a claim against you, which you should claim from the guy who hit you.

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DannyBoyOPC · Feb 10, 2020

Doesn't mean they will repair cause the airbags didn't blow.

Some insurances have a percentage value of damage before they scrap the car. Values ranging from 50-75% of the value of the car.

So for example if their uneconomical to repair value is 50% and the cars value is 140k, then anything over 70k will be written off

D3TTOL · Feb 10, 2020

ovisser1 said:
@D3TTOL can also give you and answer.
He had an accident a few days days after switching to them and they paid out

@bythecantloads
They were brilliant. 0 hassle when signing up. all dealt with within two weeks.
The car was insured with Iwyze or something like that, A friend told us about naked and decided to go with them.
After a few days of starting my new job and being insured with Naked for less than 7 days, my wife was in a more serious than normal bumper bash.
The Naked insurance guy that was dealing with everything was informative and helpful and kept us updated daily.
My wife did however get a phonecall from the workshop the car was at but the Naked agent told us not to talk to them and they shouldn't be contacting us at all.
The car was a writeoff and they paid out within a week from that.
Had to buy new car, insured with Naked again. Asked if they insure bikes, because I would switch to them in a heartbeat.

D3TTOL · Feb 10, 2020

whoa,I just read the full thread.

No offense OP but why buy a vehicle with a higher finance cost than the insured amount?(I can understand "wanting" it, I really can, I've gone through multiple bikes in a short span because I "wanted" it.)
When I look at vehicles I always look at insurance first before considering purchasing.
There is no way I would buy a R220k car if insurance is only going to cover R180k.(figures are just an example)

secondly, surely the finance company should have seen this and not allowed delivery?
I was not allowed to take delivery of a vehicle if I could not prove that the full amount was covered by a insurance company.(finance company being wesbank and a dealer)
I know it's a private sale but I have been warned that finance companies are super anal when it comes to financing private sales so they should have caught it?

Maybe somebody can correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that how vehicle finance companies work?

AndyPants · Feb 10, 2020

I'm sorry this happened....and very glad you are insured.

But so much miss information in here.

solz said:
I sure hope the other party has insurance as this then should fall under his insurance. They would cover third-party upto normally big value, but would probably go max book value of your car.

So really hope he has insurance as they would assist in claiming directly via them, but if he doesn't they can try laim against him but don't hold your breath on this. As this could be a long one where he ends up paying you monthly if you get anything out of him.

Hope that the repair cosylt is still less then your insured amount. If chassis is somehow bent most insurance will write it off, this is the scare side of it for being under insured as you will still owe the bank a good amount and have no car...
But I really hope it's not that and that hilux has insurance.

When you are insured, you claim from YOUR insurance.
You are not responsible for whether or not somebody else is insured.
You have no dealings with the owner of the other vehicle whatsoever besides getting details and handing them over to YOUR insurance.
Unfortunately your insurance will not be paying out more than what you are insured for.
Your insurer will attempt to recover the claim from the third party or their insurance if they are insured.
You will probably pay excess on the claim which may be repaid to you if your insurer was able to recover the claim from the third party or their insurance.

You will not end up with a person paying you monthly...the only way you end up like that is if you chose to not claim from your insurance and handle the case privately......(i.e. you are stupid.)

beevis said:
Sorry for your incident. Seems like you got some front damage. That car has a claim against you, which you should claim from the guy who hit you.

Your insurance will sort this out....the car in front will claim from your insurance and your insurance will claim from the back vehicle.........you should not need to be involved with this at all. This is what you have 3rd party insurance for.

The fact that you are under insured is difficult....and unfortunate....but if the book value of the vehicle is R134....that's the max you'll get if she's written off.

Airbags popped or not...it's not a done deal but seen as a rough indication - usually when they have popped, the car is written off (they're very expensive to replace and usually puts repair cost over the economical threshold)
I hope the car is repairable, then you're probably in luck

AndyPants · Feb 10, 2020

D3TTOL said:
whoa,I just read the full thread.

No offense OP but why buy a vehicle with a higher finance cost than the insured amount?(I can understand "wanting" it, I really can, I've gone through multiple bikes in a short span because I "wanted" it.)
When I look at vehicles I always look at insurance first before considering purchasing.
There is no way I would buy a R220k car if insurance is only going to cover R180k.(figures are just an example)

secondly, surely the finance company should have seen this and not allowed delivery?
I was not allowed to take delivery of a vehicle if I could not prove that the full amount was covered by a insurance company.(finance company being wesbank and a dealer)
I know it's a private sale but I have been warned that finance companies are super anal when it comes to financing private sales so they should have caught it?

Maybe somebody can correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that how vehicle finance companies work?

You might be on to something there....the vehicle is technically the asset of Wesbank....and they should not allow you to drive it if you're under insured.
I recently did a private sale through Wesbank and every detail of my insurance was checked before I got the letter confirming I could collect the vehicle.

Also - I paid R170k for a vehicle that's insured for R218k ....i.e. a good deal

Joe Banker · Feb 10, 2020

Surprise rear endings are never nice....

Razor · Feb 10, 2020

EnderZ said:
The car was financed at 172k excluding my 50k deposit at the rate of 13% over 72 months. I did not opt for a gap shortfall cover. My insurance (Naked insurance/Hollard) says the value of the car is 134k (this is where I start shitting myself because I bought her for way more and I didn't bother adjusting the price as I didn't expect to be in a rear-end a day after I got her.)

I am confused, did you pay R222k for a 2013 Fiesta ST?
Retail value should be around R150k now?

ScottulusMaximus · Feb 10, 2020

That's looks like a write off.

Insurance will pay out listed retail minus excess. You'll owe the bank the rest and if you paid 230k for IT(not she) then you are SOL.

PandaAttack1 · Feb 10, 2020

Over 200k, for a 2013 fiesta st, over 6 years, at 13%? 👀 Yikes!

Spaffy · Feb 10, 2020

Yoh man, I'm sorry this happened to you. Can't imagine what it must feel like, just getting the car and then getting it wrecked.
Regarding the insurance there's nothing you can do but wait for them to handle things. Good thing you were already covered.

Regarding what you spent, you can pick up a 2013 Fiesta ST on cars.co.za for R120k with less than 100k on the clock.

Joe Banker · Feb 10, 2020

Damn man, Also just shows you how Ford raped me on my trade on my Aug 2014. Got 185k with 40k km on in Jan 2016.

Snyper564 · Feb 10, 2020

I read the post. I dont see any mention of reporting this to the necessary police station? Was this done? This is a legal requirement and you are running out of time if you havent done it yet.

EnderZ · Feb 10, 2020

bythecantloads said:
Let me know how Naked resolves this issue, looking at changing to them seeing as Outsurance quotes me R1360pm for a 2015 Kia Rio and Naked quotes me R670.

Derail over, hope you get sorted.

D3TTOL said:
whoa,I just read the full thread.

No offense OP but why buy a vehicle with a higher finance cost than the insured amount?(I can understand "wanting" it, I really can, I've gone through multiple bikes in a short span because I "wanted" it.)
When I look at vehicles I always look at insurance first before considering purchasing.
There is no way I would buy a R220k car if insurance is only going to cover R180k.(figures are just an example)

secondly, surely the finance company should have seen this and not allowed delivery?
I was not allowed to take delivery of a vehicle if I could not prove that the full amount was covered by a insurance company.(finance company being wesbank and a dealer)
I know it's a private sale but I have been warned that finance companies are super anal when it comes to financing private sales so they should have caught it?

Maybe somebody can correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that how vehicle finance companies work?

Razor said:
I am confused, did you pay R222k for a 2013 Fiesta ST?
Retail value should be around R150k now?

ScottulusMaximus said:
That's looks like a write off.

Insurance will pay out listed retail minus excess. You'll owe the bank the rest and if you paid 230k for IT(not she) then you are SOL.

PandaAttack1 said:
Over 200k, for a 2013 fiesta st, over 6 years, at 13%? 👀 Yikes!

Spaffy said:
Yoh man, I'm sorry this happened to you. Can't imagine what it must feel like, just getting the car and then getting it wrecked.
Regarding the insurance there's nothing you can do but wait for them to handle things. Good thing you were already covered.

Regarding what you spent, you can pick up a 2013 Fiesta ST on cars.co.za for R120k with less than 100k on the clock.

Snyper564 said:
I read the post. I dont see any mention of reporting this to the necessary police station? Was this done? This is a legal requirement and you are running out of time if you havent done it yet.

Sorry, I'm trying to type with one hand here from a fractured finger.

JMPD did come and they will open the case sometime today.

As for the value of the car, I spent 3 months looking for a Fiesta ST that wasn't raped to the ground, that wasn't a rebuild selling for R130k in JHB CBD.

I spent over a month looking at this particular ST, which was still covered by Ford's Premium extended warranty, had no issues aside from a slight chip from a stone on the front bumper. The car was practically brand new for 2013, and was evaluated by ford for R185,000 and I paid R172,000 for her. with a 50,000 deposit

(New tyres, steering rack, mountings, cooling recall done, recent service, respectable and careful seller)

I asked for advice, not to be judged here and I didn't expect to be in an accident a day after I got her, lesson learned okay? I get it.

D3TTOL · Feb 10, 2020

EnderZ said:
Sorry, I'm trying to type with one hand here from a fractured finger.

JMPD did come and they will open the case sometime today.

As for the value of the car, I spent 3 months looking for a Fiesta ST that wasn't raped to the ground, that wasn't a rebuild selling for R130k in JHB CBD.

I spent over a month looking at this particular ST, which was still covered by Ford's Premium extended warranty, had no issues aside from a slight chip from a stone on the front bumper. The car was practically brand new for 2013, and was evaluated by ford for R185,000 and I paid R172,000 for her. with a 50,000 deposit

(New tyres, steering rack, mountings, cooling recall done, recent service, respectable and careful seller)

I asked for advice, not to be judged here and I didn't expect to be in an accident a day after I got her, lesson learned okay? I get it.

By no means am I fighting you here bud, I have gone through my share of insurance claims.

I'm just surprised that the finance company let you get the car with it not being fully covered by an insurance company.

solz · Feb 10, 2020

to be fair, my finance co never checked up on me on the day i went to fetch my Mazda3 2.0. they only checked up every 6 month to make sure i still had comprehensive insurance but never checked the value. the insurance co gave me the option of paying now or later and only said ill be covered after the first payment. the first of the month would have been like a week or two away, but opted to pay before pickup.

PandaAttack1 · Feb 10, 2020

EnderZ said:
Sorry, I'm trying to type with one hand here from a fractured finger.

JMPD did come and they will open the case sometime today.

As for the value of the car, I spent 3 months looking for a Fiesta ST that wasn't raped to the ground, that wasn't a rebuild selling for R130k in JHB CBD.

I spent over a month looking at this particular ST, which was still covered by Ford's Premium extended warranty, had no issues aside from a slight chip from a stone on the front bumper. The car was practically brand new for 2013, and was evaluated by ford for R185,000 and I paid R172,000 for her. with a 50,000 deposit

(New tyres, steering rack, mountings, cooling recall done, recent service, respectable and careful seller)

I asked for advice, not to be judged here and I didn't expect to be in an accident a day after I got her, lesson learned okay? I get it.

You mentioned you paid R172k excluding a 50k deposit? Do you see where the oofs and frowns come from? It's not judgment, it's surprise and confusion.

Let's make it simple then, in bold: As for your initial question; No. Your insurance can't fight for your deposit or settlement back. Logically, who would be responsible for paying what you payed? Your car has a market value, and whoever damages it is only liable for that amount. If you payed R400k for a R200k car and someone rear ends you... They only need to pay the R200k, as that is the value of your car.

D3TTOL · Feb 10, 2020

solz said:
to be fair, my finance co never checked up on me on the day i went to fetch my Mazda3 2.0. they only checked up every 6 month to make sure i still had comprehensive insurance but never checked the value. the insurance co gave me the option of paying now or later and only said ill be covered after the first payment. the first of the month would have been like a week or two away, but opted to pay before pickup.

This "checking" every 6 months is a joke with Wesbank.
They phoned me last year sometime and asked if I still had insurance, which I replied to with a simple "uh, yes" and that was it......

HolyCowImAnoOb · Feb 10, 2020

PandaAttack1 said:
If you payed R400k for a R200k car and someone rear ends you... They only need to pay the R200k, as that is the value of your car.

He did not overpay for the car IMO.

The fact that the car had extended warranty is an expensive AF "Extra" so that should be included in the Valuation of the vehicle.

NEED ADVICE! Rear ended a day after I bought my ST

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