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Strange Tactics - because they don't wanna pay

Randall

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So, in December when I had my moment with my current digs, I registered on all the job portals, including the one that gets paid for advertising and free bouncers on Mybroadband.co.za i.e. CareerJunction

There was a job on there for an electronic engineering position, no salary mentioned *remember that detail

So last month the recruiter gets back to me and I went for an interview the other day.. and its one of those companies that Altron sold recently.

I went for the interview, and it was pretty meh, I wasn't too impressed, considering their lack of test equipment and how sad and depressed their staff seemed.

So the day after they were supposed to revert back with feedback, the fun and games start with the recruiter. The recruiter is not very bright and I say this in a nice way, she is thicker than pigshit, and can't even speak English properly. She tells me they want to "phone me" with a proposal and cannot put it on e-mail because oh noez, dis mos "n staatsgeheim"

I am already pissed off because I mean what the fuck, I am used to dealing with recruiters I know how this shit works. A system was down at work so I couldn't take her calls and I get her ranting and bitching on email about why they needed to call me etc... and "goodness changing careers is a difficult thing yo (did she ever actually read my CV I wonder).

So the next day I phoned the CEO of that company myself... and he doesn't say much except they really need my skills and want me to consult for them... I put 2 and 2 together... they cannot afford my salary.

I woke up this morning to see an e-mail in my inbox from Careerjunction, that same position, word-for-word verbatim, was advertised again, except now, the salary is clearly indicated as between R25,000 and R25,001 CTC per month.

Just want you folks to be aware of why so many of us left engineering and moved into IT. In fact, like I told my wife today I'd rather then just go off, sit and study my Java, my Python, Spring, REST and all that kak that I find boring because it at least puts food on the table, pays well for CUD, and allows me to have a decent gaming rig. Doing what I love, will put us in poverty. Rather just go to therapy every so often and rant at the psychiatrist about all the juniors who don't even know how to do dependency injection or pass-by-reference than have to live from hand-to-mouth :D

Why not rather tell me. "You have the skills but sorry we cannot afford your salary" instead of wasting my time?
 
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I agree. Its shocking what we as engineers are paid compared to other professions(that required similar or less dedication to get through - looking at law, bcom etc)

I am summarizing here, but I dont understand how HR, marketing, and others can justify such salaries while engineers earn relative pea nuts.

I was in the market last year, and the offers where complete jokes.
 
R25K CTC is for a electrical engineer is just shocking :/

The saddest part is, sometimes people that don't even have any and I repeat any forms of education can earn 25K CTC.
My dad amongst other things owns a transport company, and some of his best performing drivers rack up insane bonuses
and most of them get between 18-30K CTC PM (Incl the bonuses), but yeah they work 7 days a week almost non stop.
 
Compared to overseas, it seems in SA the engineer is that guy they want to pay the least, but don't realize that its the engineers who make it possible for them to draw those kinds of fatcat salaries.
The world is a strange place.

So what do I do now with my little boy who shows engineering aspirations? "Sorry kiddo, I know you love that, but it kinda pays shit in SA, so rather let's do some bloatware in Java" "Yes son, I know we can do it in 5 lines in C and it runs 100 times faster but they will roll their eyes and not hire you if you do it in C"
 
R25K CTC is for a electrical engineer is just shocking :/

The saddest part is, sometimes people that don't even have any and I repeat any forms of education can earn 25K CTC.
My dad amongst other things owns a transport company, and some of his best performing drivers rack up insane bonuses
and most of them get between 18-30K CTC PM (Incl the bonuses), but yeah they work 7 days a week almost non stop.

That is why I ducked into software development in 2012 already... because I just couldn't get past R25k no matter how hard I worked. Back then I was moonlighting heavily to make ends meet.
And another thing, people think R25k is a lot... those people need a reality check. School fees, rent, medical expenses and food are what kills us.
 
That is why I ducked into software development in 2012 already... because I just couldn't get past R25k no matter how hard I worked. Back then I was moonlighting heavily to make ends meet.
And another thing, people think R25k is a lot... those people need a reality check. School fees, rent, medical expenses and food are what kills us.

25 CTC after deductions can leave you quite empty handed.
I know of a few people that earn 25K CTC and after the medical aid (Proper medical aid), pension and tax and UIF deductions its only like 16K in your bank account

And that 16K can dissipate like water in the dessert if you have a family to support.
 
I spoke about this many times on other forums- often the result is I am just a "whiney little bitch" and I must suck it up.

After tax, my take home pay gets wiped out by the following:

R6600.00 School Fees (Even normal schools cost this- so the fact that its a school for autism makes no difference)
R5130.00 Medical Aid for all three of us
R901.00 for a semi-decent internet connection (supposed to get 20Mbit, but that's beside the point)
R195.00 for all my hosting
R50.00 for Apple subscription services
R685.00 transport costs (using the METROBUS because I cannot afford the price of petrol anymore, so the monthly tag is a bargain)
R6400.00 rent, water, and electricity.
R2250.00 for comprehensive insurance
R250.00 for prepaid airtime and data
R5300.00 for groceries for all of us

Add all of that up and you get the picture quite nicely as to why many of us are circling the drain.
 
I spoke about this many times on other forums- often the result is I am just a "whiney little bitch" and I must suck it up.

After tax, my take home pay gets wiped out by the following:

R6600.00 School Fees (Even normal schools cost this- so the fact that its a school for autism makes no difference)
R5130.00 Medical Aid for all three of us
R901.00 for a semi-decent internet connection (supposed to get 20Mbit, but that's beside the point)
R195.00 for all my hosting
R50.00 for Apple subscription services
R685.00 transport costs (using the METROBUS because I cannot afford the price of petrol anymore, so the monthly tag is a bargain)
R6400.00 rent, water, and electricity.
R2250.00 for comprehensive insurance
R250.00 for prepaid airtime and data
R5300.00 for groceries for all of us

Add all of that up and you get the picture quite nicely as to why many of us are circling the drain.

Sheesh that's 27K of expenses. I don't want to grow up :S
 
So that leaves me with R3k and usually, with Murphy's law, there's always some or other expense every month.
Ah yes, forgot to mention the medical aids won't pay for my Concerta. Which as anyone with ASD knows, is a really expensive drug but it works, beautifully!
 
I agree. Its shocking what we as engineers are paid compared to other professions(that required similar or less dedication to get through - looking at law, bcom etc)

I felt the need to type out this story because your comments about law, is outrageous.
Think about this for a moment:
Spending 5 years of your life as an admin girl/PA to save money to start studying an LLB.
Then whilst you study part time for 3-4 years for an LLB, you get to be paid R4.5k-R6k per month throughout your law articles. Even counting it lucky that you actually got an opportunity to get in.
Then finally after 10 years of struggling, you get admitted as an attorney.
Then because you have UNISA behind your name with articles from some random one man band attorney's firm - its hard to find a job. Nevermind a listed corporate or one of the big ones ENS, Werksmans or the like.
So you float around jobless for 6 months and finally get an offer for R16k pm at some random firm in Bryanston - but only to resign 4 months later as you got short/late paid from month 1. Because its nice to work 60 hours a week, and not even get paid at the end of the month.

Then some months later you finally get a job at some small firm in Randburg, again only to resign 6 months later as the main partner is a total alcoholic, whom cannot make it to 2pm without downing a bottle of wine from under his desk. He also expects you to do downright illegal stuff that could get you disbarred to say the least, fiddling with trust account money in the order of the day. And finally, getting late paid is also cool, as he finds it nice to buy a R500k painting on an auction out of the business account - because the staff should be able to get through a month without a salary.

Then I compare this to my 3 engineering buddies, who sits in the following boats. (All of them aged under 32 and amazingly also whines as much as you guys here)
1. Mechanical engineer, works for a company in Midrand who does ammunition for tanks. 7 figure salary.
2. Electrical+IT engineering, easy life at Eskom, R700k for a 9-4pm daily job.
3. Civil Engineer, R500k py to supervise guys who builds roads over in the Eastern Cape - whilst he plays at least 4 hours Dota daily in the container on his laptop.

So yeah, I know a few qualified lawyers who will be elated to get paid R25k pm...in a stable, sane environment. And I take my hat off to anyone in this ridiculous law industry.

If you want to rip on a qualification that is "easy" to make it as a career path - it should be bcom.
I could speak for it, but I'm all out of 2c
 
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I felt the need to type out this story because your comments about law, is outrageous.
Think about this for a moment:
Spending 5 years of your life as an admin girl/PA to save money to start studying an LLB.
Then whilst you study part time for 3-4 years for an LLB, you get to be paid R4.5k-R6k per month throughout your law articles. Even counting it lucky that you actually got an opportunity to get in.
Then finally after 10 years of struggling, you get admitted as an attorney.
Then because you have UNISA behind your name with articles from some random one man band attorney's firm - its hard to find a job. Nevermind a listed corporate or one of the big ones ENS, Werksmans or the like.
So you float around jobless for 6 months and finally get an offer for R16k pm at some random firm in Bryanston - but only to resign 4 months later as you got short/late paid from month 1. Because its nice to work 60 hours a week, and not even get paid at the end of the month.

Then some months later you finally get a job at some small firm in Randburg, again only to resign 6 months later as the main partner is a total alcoholic, whom cannot make it to 2pm without downing a bottle of wine from under his desk. He also expects you to do downright illegal stuff that could get you disbarred to say the least, fiddling with trust account money in the order of the day. And finally, getting late paid is also cool, as he finds it nice to buy a R500k painting on an auction out of the business account - because the staff should be able to get through a month without a salary.

Then I compare this to my 3 engineering buddies, who sits in the following boats. (All of them aged under 32 and amazingly also whines as much as you guys here)
1. Mechanical engineer, works for a company in Midrand who does ammunition for tanks. 7 figure salary.
2. Electrical+IT engineering, easy life at Eskom, R700k for a 9-4pm daily job.
3. Civil Engineer, R500k py to supervise guys who builds roads over in the Eastern Cape - whilst he plays at least 4 hours Dota daily in the container on his laptop.

So yeah, I know a few qualified lawyers who will be elated to get paid R25k pm...in a stable, sane environment. And I take my hat off to anyone in this ridiculous law industry.

If you want to rip on a qualification that is "easy" to make it as a career path - it should be bcom.

I could speak for it, but I'm all out of 2c

I can copy paste your whole story and replace LLB with BCOM. For every BCOM success you know about, there are 15 BCOM Hons. that are working as bank tellers or secretaries.

Honestly in this country, there's very little you can study that'll give you a guaranteed high nett income. Even CA's have a hard time if they don't end up at a big name corporate early on.
 
Let's face it, every career path has it's difficulties, and it's not all sunshine and rainbows as was promised to us as youngsters if we "worked really hard", also [MENTION=26824]Machine[/MENTION] the stuff you're mentioning regarding those jobs are very specific, alcoholic bosses, short payments and such, I'm sure not every LLB qualified individual will go through that. I know it's just example but still.

And don't hate too much on BCom, I have a BCom in Information Management :rolleyes: They're actually good courses to study because they open many doors, mine was very business orientated but I'm currently a mid level Software Dev
 
Let's face it, every career path has it's difficulties, and it's not all sunshine and rainbows as was promised to us as youngsters if we "worked really hard", also [MENTION=26824]Machine[/MENTION] the stuff you're mentioning regarding those jobs are very specific, alcoholic bosses, short payments and such, I'm sure not every LLB qualified individual will go through that. I know it's just example but still.

And don't hate too much on BCom, I have a BCom in Information Management :rolleyes: They're actually good courses to study because they open many doors, mine was very business orientated but I'm currently a mid level Software Dev

The old adage of "hard work pays off" is true... BUT it's only half of the statement. The second half should read "... it's up to you to decide WHO is getting that payoff".

I've worked for some interesting places as a software dev. One place I had to do PC support to their sister companies because the software side didn't have clients yet.
I've worked 60 hour weeks... and then the weekends also. 18 hour days... been there done that. Not fun.

I know people who have worked for companies where the owner spends the money on new cars and stuff and then has to lend money to pay salaries... or pays salaries late.
Chops.
 
This Being said i miss my old underground days.
The hours were great, the work was challenging and the pay + danger pay = oodles
 
I can copy paste your whole story and replace LLB with BCOM. For every BCOM success you know about, there are 15 BCOM Hons. that are working as bank tellers or secretaries.

Honestly in this country, there's very little you can study that'll give you a guaranteed high nett income. Even CA's have a hard time if they don't end up at a big name corporate early on.

;) I hear you - hence I put the word easy in brackets.
Though from what I've seen...my perspective, its law and medicine that goes through the most dire straights.

In fact I should rephrase and say I tip my hat to anyone from an under privileged background, that got themselves a tertiary education through studying part time.
 
I agree. Its shocking what we as engineers are paid compared to other professions(that required similar or less dedication to get through - looking at law, bcom etc)

I am summarizing here, but I dont understand how HR, marketing, and others can justify such salaries while engineers earn relative pea nuts.

I was in the market last year, and the offers where complete jokes.

I think you're doing something wrong if you can't earn above R25k ctc as an engineer tbh and I don't have a single qualification to my name but I have experience in the industry.
 
I think you're doing something wrong if you can't earn above R25k ctc as an engineer tbh and I don't have a single qualification to my name but I have experience in the industry.

Not really. I know a few people that earn that as CTC. or close to that amount.

There are companies that pay very close to that amount just because they can and because their are not enough jobs on the market to be really picky.
 
Not really. I know a few people that earn that as CTC. or close to that amount.

There are companies that pay very close to that amount just because they can and because their are not enough jobs on the market to be really picky.

That's hardly the point, you generalized and said, "Its shocking what we as engineers are paid compared to other professions(that required similar or less dedication to get through - looking at law, bcom etc)'
Yes, there are many companies that pay peanuts but there are also many companies that pay well above the going rate.
 
That's hardly the point, you generalized and said, "Its shocking what we as engineers are paid compared to other professions(that required similar or less dedication to get through - looking at law, bcom etc)'
Yes, there are many companies that pay peanuts but there are also many companies that pay well above the going rate.

Okay, then I will word it like this. Engineering, in my experience, offers a lower ctc than other professions of similar skill.

Is that okay with you.
 
I agree. Its shocking what we as engineers are paid compared to other professions(that required similar or less dedication to get through - looking at law, bcom etc)

I am summarizing here, but I dont understand how HR, marketing, and others can justify such salaries while engineers earn relative pea nuts.

I was in the market last year, and the offers where complete jokes.

I am a lawyer with a Bsc undergrade {6 years since varsity}, I earn the same as my to be brother-in-law who is a registered mechanical enginner {5 years since varsity}.
My Fiancee is a candidate civil engineer {3 years since varsity} and her sister, a teacher at a private school {5 years since varsity} both earn double what I earn.
My brother when still an attorney {3 years since varsity}, earnt half what I earn

My thoughts on it are this (based on talk amoungst our circle of engineering and lawyer friends) , Engineers have on average a higher starting salary and a higher chance of reaching ~R500 000 a year within 5 - 15 years. Attorneys are on average are payed less than Engineers before ~10 years, but some time thereafter attorney earning capacity overtakes that of an engineers. That said both professions, and accounting, are fairly similar in the salary progression if averaged out. If in any of these professions you have a greater chance to continue inceasing your salary as years of experience increase compared to non-profession / no-higher education prerequisite jobs.

Just because you are a professional does not mean companies will automatically pay you well, the pay variance between companies advertising the same position is massive (A recent look at a jobs board, for similar legal positions, the salary ranges was between 7 500 to 60 000).
 
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What would you view as a normal salary for a self taught developer with 1 year of working experience at an agency? I work with PHP, Python, REST API's etc. If I didn't already have a place to stay my salary wouldn't even cover rent...
 
I can copy paste your whole story and replace LLB with BCOM. For every BCOM success you know about, there are 15 BCOM Hons. that are working as bank tellers or secretaries.

Honestly in this country, there's very little you can study that'll give you a guaranteed high nett income. Even CA's have a hard time if they don't end up at a big name corporate early on.

Aren't they (BCOM grads) the ones begging for jobs now on the streets? I'm sure I saw a few stories last year about this.
 
I felt the need to type out this story because your comments about law, is outrageous.
Think about this for a moment:
Spending 5 years of your life as an admin girl/PA to save money to start studying an LLB.
Then whilst you study part time for 3-4 years for an LLB, you get to be paid R4.5k-R6k per month throughout your law articles. Even counting it lucky that you actually got an opportunity to get in.
Then finally after 10 years of struggling, you get admitted as an attorney.
Then because you have UNISA behind your name with articles from some random one man band attorney's firm - its hard to find a job. Nevermind a listed corporate or one of the big ones ENS, Werksmans or the like.
So you float around jobless for 6 months and finally get an offer for R16k pm at some random firm in Bryanston - but only to resign 4 months later as you got short/late paid from month 1. Because its nice to work 60 hours a week, and not even get paid at the end of the month.

Then some months later you finally get a job at some small firm in Randburg, again only to resign 6 months later as the main partner is a total alcoholic, whom cannot make it to 2pm without downing a bottle of wine from under his desk. He also expects you to do downright illegal stuff that could get you disbarred to say the least, fiddling with trust account money in the order of the day. And finally, getting late paid is also cool, as he finds it nice to buy a R500k painting on an auction out of the business account - because the staff should be able to get through a month without a salary.

Then I compare this to my 3 engineering buddies, who sits in the following boats. (All of them aged under 32 and amazingly also whines as much as you guys here)
1. Mechanical engineer, works for a company in Midrand who does ammunition for tanks. 7 figure salary.
2. Electrical+IT engineering, easy life at Eskom, R700k for a 9-4pm daily job.
3. Civil Engineer, R500k py to supervise guys who builds roads over in the Eastern Cape - whilst he plays at least 4 hours Dota daily in the container on his laptop.

So yeah, I know a few qualified lawyers who will be elated to get paid R25k pm...in a stable, sane environment. And I take my hat off to anyone in this ridiculous law industry.

If you want to rip on a qualification that is "easy" to make it as a career path - it should be bcom.
I could speak for it, but I'm all out of 2c

I can one up you, Started my firm with 10532 rand, my severance pay, boss never ever paid my commission. Ate R2 muffins and coffee for breakfast and lunch for 7 months till I first got paid .. and I splurged on Nandos. Left a partner ather 2 more months as he decided to pocket 3 cheques that came in thereafter, 18 years later still waiting for him to pay me out for my share of outstanding monies :p.. October 2014 I get sick was off for 6 weeks and staff of 18 years decide to start stealing together wit the Ariticled Clerk.
A year later I pick up the theft during audit time and what do I get then. Said articled clerks husband is a partner in a security company and my business gets petrol bombed, guess whose office and PC gets destroyed?

I decided to cash out there and then, fired the whole lot and I am gone soon with my family. Will be glad not to be looking down to avoid stepping in shit all the time, but then again this is South Africa its all shit.
 
I might ad I have been working 3 to 5 hours a week lately doing in that time what 5 staff did in a week.. So I decide to find a full time job via Career Junction. What a kak site. I find that most jobs are advertised with a particular candidate in mind. I applied 3 times for a post. I tick all the boxes except I have more than twice the experience they require. I did not get a single call or email on any of the applications...I see it advertised again.. 4 months later.
 
I might ad I have been working 3 to 5 hours a week lately doing in that time what 5 staff did in a week.. So I decide to find a full time job via Career Junction. What a kak site. I find that most jobs are advertised with a particular candidate in mind. I applied 3 times for a post. I tick all the boxes except I have more than twice the experience they require. I did not get a single call or email on any of the applications...I see it advertised again.. 4 months later.

You should know that Careerjunction is in bed, in a big way with the MyBroadband/Rudolph Muller empire
 

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