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What to do when you've really hit rock bottom.

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Jer1cho

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Let's leave this here for people to see how a "good atheist" addresses random people they don't know from a bar of soap...

But yeah, like I said... my views on the subject, in accordance to my views and experiences... If you can't understand it, or don't want to or whatever, it's your problem more than it is mine anyway.

Enjoy the sunset. :)

I respect people's right to be religious. I don't have to respect their religions. I don't respect any religions, and I don't have to. Where that fits on your "good atheist" scale really couldn't bother me.

Not really sure I understand the "good atheist" comment though? I didn't post a reply in this thread for "good atheist" approval. I did it because I found the OP a really good story, but then I read something that made me spit my coffee. Like I said, sorry about that.

If you like the post so much, add it to your signature. You have my full support.

The view is gorgeous by the way. I love being able to see past the clouds. :)
 

Flex

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I respect people's right to be religious. I don't have to respect their religions.

Not really sure I understand the "good atheist" comment though? I didn't post a reply in this thread for "good atheist" approval. I did it because I found the OP a really good story, but then I read something that made me spit my coffee. Like I said, sorry about that.

If you like the post so much, add it to your signature. You have my full support.

The view is gorgeous by the way. I love being able to see past the clouds. :)

Wow but you just keep going. Even after you keep on apologizing =D
 

megustav

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I respect people's right to be religious. I don't have to respect their religions. I don't respect any religions, and I don't have to. Where that fits on your "good atheist" scale really couldn't bother me.

Not really sure I understand the "good atheist" comment though? I didn't post a reply in this thread for "good atheist" approval. I did it because I found the OP a really good story, but then I read something that made me spit my coffee. Like I said, sorry about that.

If you like the post so much, add it to your signature. You have my full support.

The view is gorgeous by the way. I love being able to see past the clouds. :)

I respect people's right to be religious.

Doesn't look like it. You are playing the man, not the ball.
 

[email protected]

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Debt Review is there to assist people that need it. Not for people who spend their money recklessly and think it is an easy way out. And that is pretty obvious. Keep that in mind. This thread is not to discuss peoples debt. So please go create your own thread and give the advice there. Which I would not recommend anyone follow

There is no distinction between a reckless spender and a person who needs debt review. There is only a person who owes money. How that debt came about is irrelevant at the end of the day if its a valid debt.

Debt review was perhaps created with the intent of assisting people that need it, regrettably it is mainly used as a mechanism for people to avoid paying their debts.

If you don't like the advice i'm handing out, you can feel free to debate the point with me rather than making a blanket statement that my advice is crap.
 

WarHeaD

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I respect people's right to be religious.

Doesn't look like it. You are playing the man, not the ball.

Meh... I think rather leave it alone now... not everyone can see eye to eye, nor should we... but yeah, at least I can honestly say, having been both sides of the fence, regardless if [MENTION=35548]Jer1cho[/MENTION] can understand this or not, I have not always been respectful to religious people, in fact, I was much more hateful than he has been here... due to personal experiences and the lack of "signs" or my own "infinite" wisdom as a human being, etc... but hey, I know I fucked up... but I can admit that I see the flaws in my ways... whether I believe or not... I at least have the courtesy to address people like I would like to be addressed and have respect for them, regardless of their religion, culture, race, area they live in, car they drive, etc.

But again, leave [MENTION=35548]Jer1cho[/MENTION] alone now... next person to comment here in an offensive manner and the thread will get locked, if you can't keep it civil and respectful, you're welcome to go join CODETA or the likes.
 
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Jer1cho

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Hilarious this. Enjoyed that thoroughly!


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SantaMuerte

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There is no distinction between a reckless spender and a person who needs debt review. There is only a person who owes money. How that debt came about is irrelevant at the end of the day if its a valid debt.

I have to disagree with this. Yes there are people who use debt review to avoid their debt, but at the end of the day it's up to the debt counselor to make the judgement on whether the person needs debt review or is applying with the intention of not paying debt and refuse the application.

I know people that's under debt review and none of them asked to be there. Sometimes you get dealt a shitty hand. Everybody knows the saying "people live within their means". What if suddenly something happens like you lose your job and the only job you can find pays significantly less than what you were earning or unforeseen circumstances puts you in a bad place with your bills? That's not reckless at all.

On a side note... If a bank or other creditor recklessly gives you credit that you realistically can't afford to pay back your debt counselor can actually apply to the court to have that debt written off if they can prove you were recklessly given credit.
 

wimstrydom

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I'd just like to say I appreciate the people giving financial advice. My father was retrenched and we now have debt on two vehicles that's a couple of payments behind.

However it's become a debate I'm not really able to follow. And it doesn't really help me as it's my fathers debt not mine. So I'd appreciate it if we perhaps move that to another thread or just stop.

Also, please let's not turn this into an Atheist vs Religious debate. It's very tempting to both parties I know. But it's not going to achieve anything and I think both parties know that.

Edit:

What I would really appreciate is genuine sincere practical advice. Which has been plentiful up till now.

Advice of this sort can live on to help a lot of other people reading this thread in the future. Let's stay constructive.

P.S. I identify as an Atheist but I am willing to adjust my beliefs if Ibsee evidence for it.

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Jer1cho

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Do you always have to get the last word in? Maybe you should stay a lurker :)

Yes. Seems the moderators here have the same issue though. Guess we DO have things in common!


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AntonG

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Read up on the cult. Scary shit dude. Glad you got out so young - this shit will fuck you up for life. My 2c for what it's worth:

I would take a break from any religion and focus on myself if I were you. Put your faith in yourself and your own abilities and work towards your goals - and when you reach them you know you earned it by your own hard work and effort.

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This - solid advice

To truly appreciate the light you need to experience darkness.

Don't worry about the stuff you cant control; plan 1 day at a time and work towards your education.

You are still young and have your whole life ahead of you. You have already come out stronger and now know you can rely on yourself to make life happen.

In 5/10 years time you will be in a happy different space and this will all be but a distant memory.


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SCHUMI4EVER

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SO . MUCH . TEXT !

As promised I finally got through it all though.

First of all, something no one else here as said yet: [MENTION=34820]wimstrydom[/MENTION] Watch that gullability dude!
One of the most striking things in the story for me is you jumping straight from one scam to the next with that Brainwave (or whatever it was called) online farce. You've got a real problem man. Try to avoid getting taken for a ride so easily from now on. Look at things objectively first. If something seems too good to be true, find how it can be so good.

Another thing is that the answer to "What to do when you've really hit rock bottom" is put one foot in front of the other. I don't experience regarding impending financial ruin, at least not yet. But I have lost a parent and if you're close that literally just vaporizes your future. You go from having it all worked out, down to the names of your future 2.5 kids and the exact layout of the living room in the house you'll be living in to not even knowing how you'll make it through tomorrow.
And it's simple, hour for hour, day by day, then week by week and eventually the future re-emerges. Planning is important but what my mother's passing taught me is that we don't always have the capacity to plan and that any plans can easily get derailed through no fault of our own.
Just try to improve, hour by hour, day by day. Re-establish routine and soon you won't have to worry about tomorrow any more and will be able to focus on next week again, and then next month, and then further down the line.

If you're about to lose something and have no hope of reversing that then realise you've already lost it and start making plans to continue on without it rather than lamenting after it. And may you'll eventually be able to replace it.

And remember, you can always as for advice. The net is full of it. Any school or uni likely has some career counselor or something. It sounds like you may have some old friends willing to impart some. But remember it's just advice, it's still up to you to pick the best, IE most sensible path, and not necessarily the one that will get you back on track fastest.
I don't mean general advice but rather troubleshoot actual steps you plan to take. With general you get too broad a range as you can see in this thread. But asking about best to way to catch-up a matric certificate might have saved you a couple of bucks.

Also I have to agree with the others, you're a pretty good word-smith, many of the things you said would have been said much simpler by an effective 9-grader. Instead they were said with the eloquence of someone who is well past matric and has an aptitude for putting words together in a way that sounds good.

My wife and I found God through the Rastafari culture/movement (more on this at another stage),

Never woulda pegged you for a Rastafarian.

So in this time, where you might have denounced God or felt disconnected, due to the SJC and their "manly/earthly" ways of doing things, and possibly getting side tracked off of the Road to Zion (the daily road we have to walk to reach Heaven) by the Beast (in forms of money hunger, false prophets, verbal abuse, emotional manipulation, etc), never forget the feelings and experiences you had that you know in your Heart of hearts (The Holy Spirit speaks this truth to us) was good and for the right cause and remember that overwhelming feeling of happiness when you truly experience God's touch... place your faith back in Him and forget what other Human beings might do and say as "religious icons", and rather focus on doing what the Bible tells us and what the Holy spirit within yourself is telling you to do, which I know is REALLY, REALLY, REAAAAALLY hard most times, because being a sinner is 10 fold easier than listening to your inner voice and doing what is right.
So I'm gonna use you as a bit of an example here.

What you, and anyone else bringing up religion in this thread don't seem to realize, is that to someone who has just left a cult ALL religion simply sounds like yet another cult (aside from the exceptions where the non-cult versions of religions manage to win a former member back from a cult). Your intent may be different, but all that comes out the other side of the ethernet cable is similar rhetoric to what ruined his life. Your post is 100% sincere, I can see that, but it's wasted because to him it just sounds like an elixir claiming to be the cure for baldness.

Being religious myself do I agree that he has chosen the right way forward shunning faith? No. Is it something we need to tackle right now though? No. In fact we should realise it's utterly fruitless and even insulting to do so. What brings a religious person comfort can not possibly comfort someone who has been tremendously screwed over by a religion and has managed to get out by shunning all religion. It's like saying you'll feel better by doing the very thing that made you feel so bad.
 
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wimstrydom

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SO . MUCH . TEXT !

As promised I finally got through it all though.

First of all, something no one else here as said yet: [MENTION=34820]wimstrydom[/MENTION] Watch that gullability dude!
One of the most striking things in the story for me is you jumping straight from one scam to the next with that Brainwave (or whatever it was called) online farce. You've got a real problem man. Try to avoid getting taken for a ride so easily from now on. Look at things objectively first. If something seems too good to be true, find how it can be so good.

Another thing is that the answer to "What to do when you've really hit rock bottom" is put one foot in front of the other. I don't experience regarding impending financial ruin, at least not yet. But I have lost a parent and if you're close that literally just vaporizes your future. You go from having it all worked out, down to the names of your future 2.5 kids and the exact layout of the living room in the house you'll be living in to not even knowing how you'll make it through tomorrow.
And it's simple, hour for hour, day by day, then week by week and eventually the future re-emerges. Planning is important but what my mother's passing taught me is that we don't always have the capacity to plan and that any plans can easily get derailed through no fault of our own.
Just try to improve, hour by hour, day by day. Re-establish routine and soon you won't have to worry about tomorrow any more and will be able to focus on next week again, and then next month, and then further down the line.

If you're about to lose something and have no hope of reversing that then realise you've already lost it and start making plans to continue on without it rather than lamenting after it. And may you'll eventually be able to replace it.

And remember, you can always as for advice. The net is full of it. Any school or uni likely has some career counselor or something. It sounds like you may have some old friends willing to impart some. But remember it's just advice, it's still up to you to pick the best, IE most sensible path, and not necessarily the one that will get you back on track fastest.
I don't mean general advice but rather troubleshoot actual steps you plan to take. With general you get too broad a range as you can see in this thread. But asking about best to way to catch-up a matric certificate might have saved you a couple of bucks.

Also I have to agree with the others, you're a pretty good word-smith, many of the things you said would have been said much simpler by an effective 9-grader. Instead they were said with the eloquence of someone who is well past matric and has an aptitude for putting words together in a way that sounds good.



Never woulda pegged you for a Rastafarian.


So I'm gonna use you as a bit of an example here.

What you, and anyone else bringing up religion in this thread don't seem to realize, is that to someone who has just left a cult ALL religion simply sounds like yet another cult (aside from the exceptions where the non-cult versions of religions manage to win a former member back from a cult). Your intent may be different, but all that comes out the other side of the ethernet cable is similar rhetoric to what ruined his life. Your post is 100% sincere, I can see that, but it's wasted because to him it just sounds like an elixir claiming to be the cure for baldness.

Being religious myself do I agree that he has chosen the right way forward shunning faith? No. Is it something we need to tackle right now though? No. In fact we should realise it's utterly fruitless and even insulting to do so. What brings a religious person comfort can not possibly comfort someone who has been tremendously screwed over by a religion and has managed to get out by shunning all religion. It's like saying you'll feel better by doing the very thing that made you feel so bad.

Thanks for the motivation man, it really means a lot.

However just wanna say one thing. I don't think I've been very gullible after leaving SCJ. I asked for plenty advice when I decided to finish school and the best I could find was to enrol at a school that takes adult learners. Brainline is an actual accredited school. It's just that their adult learning program is shit. Take a look at their website. It's plenty legit, just terrible. Eventually I said "screw that" and found another way of achieving my goal, that is, getting accepted at Stellies for Engineering.


EDIT: I just checked Brainline's website and they don't offer the package that I was on anymore. They seem to have replaced it with a prep course for the GED, which is the test I eventually wrote to actually get my university acceptance. It seems they actually read my rant email I sent them. Still didn't refund me though... I guess at least others can learn from my mistakes
 
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WarHeaD

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[MENTION=38509]Mast3rBlast3r[/MENTION] - Not quite... I merely found MUCH inspiration through their teachings and their willingness to denounce all modern/Babylonian systems, they also (despite their past) see no race or at the very least hold no grudges against their slave masters, they were instructed by their "King of kings" to rather work with their masters and learn from them, rather than hating them and giving in to their feelings of hatred, etc. An interview with H.I.M. Haile Selassie I in 1955 with the UN, he was asked whether there is any option for white people in Africa to stay and live in peace, or if they'll be annihilated by the natives when they come into power... his response was in the lines of the following: "We should remove race from all aspects... white, black, yellow, we are all humans and that we should work together with our oppressors, to achieve unity within Africa and all its inhabitants, regardless of race".

That said, my knife edge approach to this thread was wrong, I apologize if I have caused the OP any further pain, we have actually been chatting in a really nice and civil manner on whatapp... and I said this (before I read your reply)...

I think he needs to take a sabbatical from his sabbatical... find his feet and work his way up again, then at a later stage, if he feels like doing so, revisit religion, etc.
 
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Wiℤard

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So much right and wrong in this thread, I really felt the need to both Like and Dislike the same post a number of times...
 

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[MENTION=34820]wimstrydom[/MENTION] when are you releasing the book? I want to read all of it.


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People with bad intentions are all around and very well disguised. The world is also full of good people, you dont need to find 1 you can just be 1, the rest will work itself out.
I know religious people that are turds, I know non religious people that are turds, I know some people who are genuinely good that I could care less about what religion they practice, they might as well worship the flying spaghetti monster for all I care, doesn't change how I see them.
I have a goth friend who loves her death metal and people think shes weird and evil, but if I ever need help or just a friend to talk to shes there, shes a good person despite her traits.
Had a gay friend at my old job, all the old religious folks didn't like him simply because of his sexual preference, but he was truly the most intelligent and kind hearted person I've ever met, I had a good friendship with him simply because I didn't care what he chose to put in his mouth.
Many guys here who have met me can figure out what religion I follow, I honestly don't follow it according to all its rules (I eat what I want and drink what I want) but I've never been a doos to anyone I've met here, and you're all strangers, simply because I don't want you to be a doos with me. Its easy to look pass a persons religion and race and simply treat them the way you want to be treated.
Being kind and honest is free.
When you see a bro down give him a hand, sometimes you're the medic in your squad.
If you see someone being oppressed then defend them, like a blue summon in ds.
You always have more than someone out there, don't be too greedy to not help the less fortunate, share the loot with your lower level teamies.
Seriously, being lekker is not hard at all and anyone can do it, whether you worship cthulu or pray to zorp the destroyer, we live in a multicultural world but being lekker is a common factor.
 

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Thanks for the motivation man, it really means a lot.

However just wanna say one thing. I don't think I've been very gullible after leaving SCJ. I asked for plenty advice when I decided to finish school and the best I could find was to enrol at a school that takes adult learners. Brainline is an actual accredited school. It's just that their adult learning program is shit. Take a look at their website. It's plenty legit, just terrible. Eventually I said "screw that" and found another way of achieving my goal, that is, getting accepted at Stellies for Engineering.


EDIT: I just checked Brainline's website and they don't offer the package that I was on anymore. They seem to have replaced it with a prep course for the GED, which is the test I eventually wrote to actually get my university acceptance. It seems they actually read my rant email I sent them. Still didn't refund me though... I guess at least others can learn from my mistakes

Your shitty course is still there. BrainlineCompact at the bottom. Do Grade 10 and 11 in one year just as you said. Anyways I didn't mean a full scam, but rather a place that clearly over markets and under-delivers, I don't think a career counselor at a uni or anywhere would have mentioned Brainline as the way forward. There's universities/colleges like that too by the way, like CTI.
I'm glad you managed to come right and you didn't jump in blindly. But I still think you need to be extra vigilant and make sure there's not another Brainline in your future.
 

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When my family prays before eating, I close my eyes in respect although I do not agree with it. When we have Christmas gatherings, I enjoy it with them, regardless of the narrative and how religiousy it gets - Out of respect. Learn some of it.

Right, this one I didn't see until now.

Alright listen. I'm sorry I came across as obtuse, confronting and argumentative. Sometimes the heat of the subject gets to me.

Now, I'm not going to be arguing about the subject anymore because I feel bad enough as it is about derailing this thread with hot air posts like I have already done.

Next, this line you wrote is just as attacking as anything I wrote. You know nothing about my personal life/situation, and now you think that I am low enough to not even have family/friends protected from a lack of respect. Ok, I'm going to give you a snippet of my life. Read up, take it in, and then I want you to write that very same line down, but think carefully this time about it.

First, a small bit of background. I am married to someone who's family are religious. Old school Afrikaner religion. I have a VERY good relationship with them, and I have been married to their daughter for 7 years, and dated since high-school. The details of the next bit are far too much to type out, but I will give you some ballpoints.

- Christian up until around 22 years old. I am 31 now.
- Told wife I was an atheist at around 25. We had a few arguments, but we got over it, and she is far more open minded now. It was difficult having your spouse unsupported in such a big transition, but we found a way to just get over it, and we did.
-Had daughter in Nov 2014 after 1 miscarriage before. No signs of anything wrong.
-Daughter born, covered in sores, from head to toe. Like blisters, but bad.
-3 months in hospital after birth, antibiotics daily with a drip in her head. A bacterial infection they said it was.
-All seems to be getting better, and we go home.
-5 months old, and daughter still seems to have an eye squint. We later find out she is completely blind in one eye. She will never be able to see from it again.
-A year old now. Still no teeth? Strange. Bald spots on her head, with her hair being very thin/wire-like. What is going on?
-2 years old now! Still NO TEETH! Are all of these connected?
-2017 - We find out what has happened.

Our daughter has a genetic disease called Incontinentia Pigmenti. I'm not going into details, so if you are interested, be sure to google this disease to raise awareness if anything.

Through all of this time, the following has happened:

- I was asked in hospital, by gathering family to put my hands on my child to pray to Jesus to heal her.
- I was told the only way to fix this is by becoming the head priest of my household
- I have been blamed as a cause for this, due to my being an atheist
- I have sat around those very dinner tables, holding hands, listening to people talk with their eyes closed about how my child is going to get insta-fixed. Even though, due to this disease, there is still a chance she might go completely blind.
- My daughter was baptized in church. With my full blessings, and co operation, because my wife wanted that.
- She is in a Private Christian school. Which I rate as the best Primary school in the City, regardless of it being christian or not.

I still close my eyes around the table and hold hands. I still smile back when looked in the face and constantly preached about Jesus and how he is the only point of anything and will heal my daughter. I love my wife more than anything, and nobody knows what kind of emotional roller coaster we have been through apart from each other.

When you live in a country with an adopted religion, and grow up in a small town where everyone's views are pretty much the same, your only choice is to walk with the flock. Sure, I may be a wolf in sheep's clothing, but I know there are relationships that need to be upheld, so conrtary to how I made it appear, I do not gobble up ALL the sheep.

You can all label me a 'bad atheist' or whatever on the internet after 5 posts in a thread, that's fine, but don't make assumptions about what goes on in someone's personal life, or how they choose to treat any relationships they have. Especially not based on an internet forum. Jeepers.


So to sum it up, yes I close my eyes in respect although I do not agree with it.
Yes, When we have Christmas gatherings, I enjoy it with them, regardless of the narrative and how religiousy it gets - Out of respect.
Learn some of it. - Well, now you know that I have. The thing is though, do you think the same has been done for me? Perhaps, perhaps not. Either way, I just wanted to clear this up.

There's my last word again. :) Hope you enjoyed it. Anything else anyone wants to say, feel free to pm so OP can keep the thread. I just had to clear this up first and didn't see it yesterday.
 
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WarHeaD

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[MENTION=35548]Jer1cho[/MENTION] - I am sincerely sorry to hear about your situation and can empathize with you and your family. Yesterday was a hectic day for me too, but please keep it calm and civil going forward, just because you had unfortunate things happen to you (as have all of us), doesn't mean you need to stomp on everyone who is religious and come out swinging when you hear the word religion... you're an atheist, that's your prerogative, but a little respect and kindness goes a long way. (And no... this isn't the last word, I could care less about having the last word, you're welcome to post again, even if it's just a picture of a man on a horse, riding off into the sunset :p - This is a kind-hearted joke btw.)

Back to [MENTION=34820]wimstrydom[/MENTION]'s initial post - after some thinking last night, I really felt terrible for bringing up religion when clearly he and his family went through something as terrible as this, all in the name of religion.

My views on religion are also that of my own understanding of the Bible, etc, I don't place my faith in the Church, or rather the people who run Churches and then the church goers, who, imo, are mostly "modern day" Christians who only come to Chruch because they want to pass judgement, show off their flashy cars and suites, etc, but MOST OF ALL because I don't trust other people.. (Again, not painting all church goers with the same brush, nor am I saying Church is a bad thing, read further down...)

I feel that if you're starting to explore religion, don't just jump into the first thing that seems like "the right thing" - rather give it more time, do some research, truly explore your feelings, and while you're doing this, do self study, build a relationship with God directly, then, if you feel you need assistance from other people (The Church, etc), do your research, visit them and get a feeling for what they're about, if you see any red lights flashing, move on to the next where you might feel true love, peace and happiness. (Again, my view on the subject, due to my personal experiences with the Church, etc).

I have an opinion on this cult, but I don't think that I'll share here (in full detail), as I don't want to step on toes any further... but I do believe this cult he was part of is evil, even though they portray the image of Christianity.. Perhaps false prophets? Know thy enemy and all that (Again, like I said, my opinion, I might be way off).

That said, I'm leaving this thread open until 11am ( [MENTION=35548]Jer1cho[/MENTION], I hope you're already searching for the image mentioned above, I am going to be very disappointed if I don't see this :D ), as I feel everyone has said what needs/wanted to be said... i.e. this thread has served its purpose.
 
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Flex

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Breaks my heart when children have to suffer like this. Still something I will never understand. Telling me it is to test peoples faith? Bullshit! Make me blind in one eye to test my faith, not an innocent child!
 

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Hey dude. My intention with my comment was purely to illustrate that I do not agree with many people's view on religion, especially my family, but I still respect it. The example was purely how I do it in my daily life. Saying to learn some respect was also relating to this thread, not you or your family.

I understand how these two comments together are very harsh considering your circumstance - it was not intended this way. My apologies :encouragement:

Also I am truly sorry about your kid and what she is going through. It's fucking horrible and I wish there was anything I could do to make shit like this better.
 

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[MENTION=35548]Jer1cho[/MENTION] - I don't ride a horse pal... don't mistake my kindness for weakness... And YES... after your shitty "sure whatever" response to my polite PM, warning you as a staff member, you're for DAMN sure I'm having the last say here, because you seem incapable of having any respect for anyone.

AAEAAQAAAAAAAArpAAAAJGE3NjBlZWMwLTQyYTEtNGE4My1iNjJlLWI3MjUxZTdmOTA2OQ.png


Peace.
 
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