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What to do when you've really hit rock bottom.

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Toxxyc

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I know the point of this thread and we'll keep an eye on this - give advice guys, but don't insult religion in doing so. You opinion of "he shouldn't focus on religion" is valid, and will never be blocked, but mocking/insulting religions or religious people will not be tolerated. The same goes for the religious guys - don't ask for it, it's not necessary. If it turns sour, this thread will be locked.
 

RexTrueform

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Rough story OP, I wish you all the best in the future.

To the people pushing religion in here I say , Shame on YOU!!!
Shame on you!!
 

megustav

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There is so much more I could say to you, but all I will leave you with is this reminder: YOU control your destiny, even if it may not seem like it at times. YOU have the potential to do great things, regardless of what has happened to you in the past. YOU are your own man and nobody else controls who and what you say or think or achieve. The only belief you need is belief in yourself.

^^ This
 

rinners

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This life is about self discovery. Never see your past experiences as a waste, rather make sure that the choices you make now build on those things you've learned and no doubt you've learned a ton more than the average person following the normal school -> university -> job path.
 

charizarding

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according to my title I am the Official Carbonite Atheist and even i won't touch this religious fiasco with a 10 foot pole.

However i did read the entire post and i will just say this, Good luck and work hard sir!
 

megustav

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To the people pushing religion in here I say , Shame on YOU!!!
Shame on you!!

I was fucking livid reading some of the responses. Oh a bastard has broken into your house and killed half your family? Here's pictures of him to hang on your wall as a reminder, as well as a list of all the great things he has done in his life. He just made that one mistake... Don't be irrational now!! Sigh.
 

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I have been brought up in a "Christian" home but do not necessary believe in a higher power. Persoonlik voel ek dat godsdiens deur die mens uitgedink is vir sy eie gewin. Kom ons maak mekaar dood want jy glo nie waarin ek glo. Nee sien die 5 jarige kind wat aan kanker doodgaan en skree van die pyn is ok want hy/sy gaan na n beter plek. Ek roep bullshit. Jammer maar dis hoe ek voel.

Not that there isn't some life lessons to be learned out of the Bible. Wees nice met jou medemens, moenie steel, moor etc. Religion has been used for centuries to kill each other on this earth and i personally belive the world would be a better place if we abide by just 1 rule to rule them all: Moenie aan ander doen wat jy nie aan jouself gedoen wil he.
 

Giovanni

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As a young guy leading the video-editing/creative team at my church this is one scary post.

While not as dramatic as your story - In my mind I've also been on so many ups and downs. The only things, to me, that seem constant are the small things in life that truly make me happy - making a timelapse of a beautiful sunrise, the fresh smell of rain and those rare moments where I am spontaneously able to choose to be happy.

You seem like a great guy, or at least someone I have things in common with. I do not have a detailed plan for you to follow, I am inexperienced (18 years old) and have no idea what it feels like to go through so many hardships. But I urge you to seek happiness in everyday things - it is all I hang on to.
 

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I have a friend that I grew up with and were just about best friends from Pre school all the way to high school.

He got involved into something similar, I just don't know as much details about his "cult" as the one you were speaking of.
It is a cult filled with primarily colored people with a typical Cape Tonian accent. They see their Pastor as the saviour. The name sounds mexican if I remember correctly.

They also took the Bible very Literal, for example men are not allowed to wear short pants and show their legs, and men are superior to woman. He even took the attitude towards his mom. For each thing they would show you a scripture in the bible justifying what they are doing.
I could see how it ruined their house hold. He has a decent job, but ALL his money goes towards this cult and the people of it.

I am glad you got out.
Having something to believe in solidifies you as a person, gives you purpose. Whether it is a higher power or a way of life.
I also struggle lots with religion. I am a Christian, but do not agree with MANY things that Christians do and what the Bible says. I do however believe I am a good person, and try to help where I can. I would rather give my 10th to people that need it than to the Church.

Just keep your head up and surround yourself with positive people and vibes. Get active. Start a sport or training, eat healthy. People under estimate the effect that a healthy body and mind can have on a person.
 

no?

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Also OP remember that the internet is a basket of opportunities for extra dosh.
Whether it's https://www.reddit.com/r/slavelabour/
Youtube editing
Coding small snippets on elance/upwork
Hosting content sites with ads or my personal new favorite https://coin-hive.com/
Tutoring
err using "wisdom" to encourage dumb people to hand over their shitty csgo skins
Hosting gmod servers and selling perks (legit works)

Friends and I have had varying results with the above and we're dumb as shit.
 
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megustav

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if we abide by just 1 rule to rule them all: Moenie aan ander doen wat jy nie aan jouself gedoen wil he.

Jim Jeffries has a similar, but a bit more crass approach:

48ff123f8a047031e24cad347e6b0b62.jpg


Sorry if this offends anyone. :p
 

MeTsU

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Wow, incredible read. I think just by taking the time to type out your thoughts and being able to see everything you have gone through, allows you to reflect on it all.

Carbonite is a great community and I am sure, that in some way, something positive will come from just posting this up.
 

DoDo

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OP, you don't come across as having only a grade 10 formal education. I know many varsity graduates who can't write as well as you can.

From your post you also seem to have an unbelievable work ethic, once motivated, as well as some business acumen from your history and from helping and speaking with your Dad about his business dealings/troubles.

Formal education, perhaps I should emphasise, the right formal education, at a varsity level can indeed provide one with a great advantage when it comes to employ-ability and entry level salaries and opportunities. At least that's true in this country. My only advice to people thinking about getting a degree at varsity is to have a plan behind it, especially if you don't have the benefit of your family fully funding the cost of getting that degree without any real trouble.

My friend was studying a BA Law a while back, and discovered that she was fascinated with archaeology. She ended up deviating from her initial plan (to get a BA Law then an LLB to become an attorney/advocate/legal advisor etc etc) and instead majored (and did her masters in) archaeology. She was an exemplary student, and graduated with distinctions etc, with the approval and recommendations of her seniors.

Could she find a job in her new chosen field? No. No she could not, and years later, after au pairing for some time, she eventually found some grunt work at a marketing firm. She can't even take the marketing-related skills she has learned across elsewhere in the marketing field, as she simply isn't qualified in that field (despite her being very capable and having actual work experience in this area). Now she's stuck, with little to no marketable skills in a field she never intended to enter into, with an employer that doesn't treat her well, all because she chose to qualify in a skill/field that she never planned for. She never mapped out what she was going to do with her degree, who would hire her, local or abroad (if abroad how to get there), what the motivation is for paying her (what value does the skill add and to whom). None of it. She will probably never say so out loud, but I know she really regrets her decision to study archaeology. She is now studying a financial/accountancy-related degree part time. That's almost 10 years post-high school wasted career-wise.

I applaud self-investment, it's probably the most valuable investment you can make, but just like any other investment, you need to do your research. Make sure you can do something with your degree, that you are employable and know who typically employs people with that qualification. Know how to differentiate yourself from every other person with the same degree. If you plan to go out into the business world on your own (in which case I applaud your courage and wish you the very best) and do your own thing, why do you need a formal qualification in the first place (will it add something, if not, or nothing major, why not skip it?)

Just my 2c on the whole studying thing. I'm not saying that you should never pursue something you love that's not mainstream or corporate (I'm sure some people can do a lot and make a good living with a Masters in archaeology), but please don't spend all that time and money on a degree that won't generate a return and won't get you out of your current situation, you don't seem to have that luxury. Think about it, research, plan for after the degree, not for the degree.
 

SantaMuerte

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I have been brought up in a "Christian" home but do not necessary believe in a higher power. Persoonlik voel ek dat godsdiens deur die mens uitgedink is vir sy eie gewin. Kom ons maak mekaar dood want jy glo nie waarin ek glo. Nee sien die 5 jarige kind wat aan kanker doodgaan en skree van die pyn is ok want hy/sy gaan na n beter plek. Ek roep bullshit. Jammer maar dis hoe ek voel.

Not that there isn't some life lessons to be learned out of the Bible. Wees nice met jou medemens, moenie steel, moor etc. Religion has been used for centuries to kill each other on this earth and i personally belive the world would be a better place if we abide by just 1 rule to rule them all: Moenie aan ander doen wat jy nie aan jouself gedoen wil he.

En geld.... Kyk hoe baie geld het van die kerke. Daar is kerke wat meer fancy as die grootste huise in Serenghetti Estate is maar hulle bywoners krupeer. Plaas help hulle die mense. Dit is pateties en maak my sommer naar.
 

wimstrydom

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En geld.... Kyk hoe baie geld het van die kerke. Daar is kerke wat meer fancy as die grootste huise in Serenghetti Estate is maar hulle bywoners krupeer. Plaas help hulle die mense. Dit is pateties en maak my sommer naar.

In SCJ this verse is quoted a lot: "The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you--they are full of the Spirit and life. John 6:63"

So the reasoning is that the physical things mean nothing, and as long as you can eat you can work for God. During my time there I spent hundreds of thousands of rands on sound, camera, and computer equipment while most of the members live in even worse conditions than I am. I received not more than R5000 in total in my time there and I think that's more than most of the members. This was so that I could buy toiletries, socks, etc.

I'm not saying all churches are like this, there definitely are some who do truly good work and who give back to the community. They are, however, in the minority I think.
 

megustav

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Remember that there only is 1 God.

According to some estimates, there are roughly 4,200 religions in the world. The word religion is sometimes used interchangeably with "faith" or "belief system", but religion differs from private belief in that it has a public aspect. Add to that that some religions has may gods, saying there is only one god is incorrect. Your chosen religion, in which I respect you choice, only has one God. Don't assume everyone practices your religion.

What astounds me is telling someone that went through his ordeal to just pray more, it is just ignorant and sad. It reminds me of a story that has stuck with me ever since I read it.

A fellow was stuck on his rooftop in a flood. He was praying to God for help.

Soon a man in a rowboat came by and the fellow shouted to the man on the roof, "Jump in, I can save you."

The stranded fellow shouted back, "No, it's OK, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me."

So the rowboat went on.

Then a motorboat came by. "The fellow in the motorboat shouted, "Jump in, I can save you."

To this the stranded man said, "No thanks, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith."

So the motorboat went on.

Then a helicopter came by and the pilot shouted down, "Grab this rope and I will lift you to safety."

To this the stranded man again replied, "No thanks, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith."

So the helicopter reluctantly flew away.

Soon the water rose above the rooftop and the man drowned. He went to Heaven. He finally got his chance to discuss this whole situation with God, at which point he exclaimed, "I had faith in you but you didn't save me, you let me drown. I don't understand why!"

To this God replied, "I sent you a rowboat and a motorboat and a helicopter, what more did you expect?"

Moral of the story is no matter which religion you practice (or not) or who you pray to, if you don't get off your ass, make good decisions and work for what you want, nothing will happen/change.
 
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wimstrydom

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According to some estimates, there are roughly 4,200 religions in the world.

Even more than this, there are thousands of denominations that adhere to the Bible. Depending on how you define a denomination it differs from a couple thousand to more than 40,000. Each with it's own flavor of interpreting the Bible. I've spent A LOT of time in A LOT of churches (for evangelism purposes), and there are so many subtle but crucial differences between different churches and even between different groups within one church.

It's very much like the diverging of species over long periods with natural selection.
 

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I have been brought up in a "Christian" home but do not necessary believe in a higher power. Persoonlik voel ek dat godsdiens deur die mens uitgedink is vir sy eie gewin. Kom ons maak mekaar dood want jy glo nie waarin ek glo. Nee sien die 5 jarige kind wat aan kanker doodgaan en skree van die pyn is ok want hy/sy gaan na n beter plek. Ek roep bullshit. Jammer maar dis hoe ek voel.

Not that there isn't some life lessons to be learned out of the Bible. Wees nice met jou medemens, moenie steel, moor etc. Religion has been used for centuries to kill each other on this earth and i personally belive the world would be a better place if we abide by just 1 rule to rule them all: Moenie aan ander doen wat jy nie aan jouself gedoen wil he.

AKA: Don't be a doos, be lekker.

En geld.... Kyk hoe baie geld het van die kerke. Daar is kerke wat meer fancy as die grootste huise in Serenghetti Estate is maar hulle bywoners krupeer. Plaas help hulle die mense. Dit is pateties en maak my sommer naar.

It depends on the church, to be honest. I've been deacon at a church before - meaning I had access to the church's finances. Year on year the church broke even, entering the new year with 4-digit numbers in the bank account only. That's after we sustained plenty of needing families, orphanages and even the suffering people in Knysna after the fires. Churches aren't all bad :)
 

Jer1cho

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Even more than this, there are thousands of denominations that adhere to the Bible. Depending on how you define a denomination it differs from a couple thousand to more than 40,000. Each with it's own flavor of interpreting the Bible. I've spent A LOT of time in A LOT of churches (for evangelism purposes), and there are so many subtle but crucial differences between different churches and even between different groups within one church.

It's very much like the diverging of species over long periods with natural selection.

Dude. That was a long read, but man it made me think. I don't post here often, and mainly lurk, but I just want to say that I hope with everything in me that your luck turns around. Heck, if anything, you should get into writing on the side as well!

Anyway, as someone who also got out of religion (Nowhere near as devastating/dangerous as your scenario) it makes me happy to see people who are able to just break out of it like you did. At least in that regard, consider yourself free. I know that I could never ever go back to religion or any god/gods, and I will always feel privileged to be in that position, because I have family members so far gone they cannot get through a sentence without the word *insert god name here* in it. I have seen people wilt away their lives for the stupidest reasons, and I still maintain that the only true freedom any of us will ever truly know is when our minds are free. This is of course my opinion, and people's life experiences differ.

I am very sorry about what you and your family have been through, and I wish that millions more people could read your story to see what kind of devastating effect cults can have on families. I really don't know what to say to you, apart from good luck, and I hope everything somehow works out for you.
 

Flex

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AKA: Don't be a doos, be lekker.



It depends on the church, to be honest. I've been deacon at a church before - meaning I had access to the church's finances. Year on year the church broke even, entering the new year with 4-digit numbers in the bank account only. That's after we sustained plenty of needing families, orphanages and even the suffering people in Knysna after the fires. Churches aren't all bad :)

But then you get Churches like CRC. Pastors drive Numerous Harleys, AMG mercedes and what not. They do not have any other Job, that is what they do. Surely that is not right
 

Toi

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The hardest part of life is that you're never given a manual that has a troubleshooting section. We're all unique and so are our circumstances. The best we can do is to always ask advice and then make decisions based on that. Just always make sure that whatever you choose that YOU are the one making that choice.

I did not want to post here, there are enough polarizing opinions but it would be selfish of me to want to learn from other peoples experiences without sharing my own. (Sorry to those already familiar with my tear jerk story)

Two and a half years ago I lost my job, had to start a business to take care of my wife and three kids as well as my father, mother and brother. Oh and also add to this 6 employees I for some reason felt responsible for as they worked for my father for years. Shorty after this I lost my father to suicide, then my brother left the company and was well on his way of doing great for himself. Mother turned out to be a sociopath and pretty much the most evil person I have ever personally known. Things were rough but we coped even though tons of stuff just kept going wrong for us. We got a new client, client took me for one hell of a ride and not the type you light a smoke up afterwards. Completely crippled us.

Worldly possessions slowly started to disappear. First was my bakkie, then factory then machines. Personal belonging were long gone by then. I again just did what every one else kept saying to me and that was that hard work is what gets you through. Yeah right, complete nonsense. You know what I have learnt in these past two and a half years? People are bloody arseholes. Not everyone, but damn, good people are few and far between. Do you know who gets the big orders, contracts and tenders? People who know people or people that use money to manipulate people not people that rely solely on hard work. By nature we are selfish, it a primitive survival characteristic, remember this, its do or die out there. I got scammed two month ago. Big time. As in every last cent that we owned. So that's it then, two and a half years of hard work, down the drain. Like I said, people are arseholes.

But you know what? This is cringe I know but from the absolute bottom, you can only go up. Except for the fact that I lost my dad I wouldn't change a damn thing. Yeah its tough, brutal and shit but I would not have learnt first hand what I know today.

It might not be the words that you want to hear but know that there is someone else out there that has it much worse than you do. Be grateful for what you have. You don't want to push things and see how hard life can kick you in the balls when you thought you cannot go any lower.

Like I said, we're all different, I'm not here to say to you that my way is the way. But listen to what people have to say.

Personally what gets me through is Faith. Not in myself (I got myself in way too much shit to ever trust myself again), not in other people and certainly not in any church. Faith in God.

But again, I'm not responsible for your choices, you are. I'm simply sharing what I learnt and experienced.

Whatever you do and by whatever means you do it, good luck man.





Oh and I know I'm cynical, life does that to you but I have met plenty of great people here on carb.
 
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Flex

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AKA: Don't be a doos, be lekker.



It depends on the church, to be honest. I've been deacon at a church before - meaning I had access to the church's finances. Year on year the church broke even, entering the new year with 4-digit numbers in the bank account only. That's after we sustained plenty of needing families, orphanages and even the suffering people in Knysna after the fires. Churches aren't all bad :)

But then you get Churches like CRC. Pastors drive Numerous Harleys, AMG mercedes and what not. They do not have any other Job, that is what they do. Surely that is not right
 

EmileS

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When I go through difficult times, I always think... "at least I'm not like a Groenie", whom is hated by all on Carb.

Although, don't always look at other people who have it worse off than you to cheer you up. You can't be lower life than a Groenie, whom is actually hated by people and a lot of people at that.

You aren't hated at all by anyone and we thank you for sharing your story!
 

WarHeaD

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Remember, God did not send His Son to die for us so we can be wealthy, own fancy cars, big houses etc. Jesus died so we can have eternal life, so that we will not perish but be with God the father for eternity where there will be no more pain, no more sorrow.
You cannot serve both God and money. Mathew 6:24
Satan is everywhere to deceive and inject his lies into the lives of others, even into the church.
In money you will find emptiness, in the lies of atheism and the teachings of the great atheists you will find nothing but emptiness. I've been there, its empty, dead, cold, worldly things will bring you temporary pleasure and security, what good it is for a man to gain the whole world but lose his soul?
Seek first the kingdom of God and the rest will be given to you.

Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?

This is so true, and for the first time, in the eye of the public on Carbonite, I don't care what anyone thinks, but my wife and I both were reborn recently and things are really changing for the better, and I'd like to share my experiences and thoughts on here too:

[MENTION=34820]wimstrydom[/MENTION] - The problem I see with MANY believers these days (especially since I was so deep into the "other side" of things), is that people tend to look at their own intelligence and plan their way forward through all their own "infinite" wisdom, which in my humble opinion and personal experience is incorrect.

My wife and I found God through the Rastafari culture/movement (more on this at another stage), if you look into their core belief systems, it's essentially normal Bible (They usually read the KJV Bible) and Christianity, but MUCH MUCH more intense (Denounce Babylon/Do onto others/Turn the other cheek/etc), and with a few other things that we can't fully understand as we were never in the time and space they were (w.r.t. H.I.M. Haile Selassie begin considered as the King of Kings, due to him endorsing the ghetto youths to take up peace, love and faith, instead of trusting in the Babylonian systems, guns, violence and earthly possessions, etc).

They also do exactly what you and your family did (I and I wanna live in Dread), and this is something I can honestly only commend you on as it is truly awe-inspiring that you and your family had the courage to do so... my wife and I are planning on trying for our first child/children, but within my heart of hearts, I would like to denounce all earthly possessions and start afresh, but I'm scared to fully let go just yet, but I am truly hopeful that somewhere on our journey, this opportunity arises and we can live in true peace and love, together, be that in this life or the next...

Also, in my findings/understandings of late is that there is a MAJOR difference between man's wisdom and God's wisdom... man's truth and God's truth... man's plans and God's plans, make yourself the clay and God the potter and things will work out fine. (Isaiah 64:8).

So in this time, where you might have denounced God or felt disconnected, due to the SJC and their "manly/earthly" ways of doing things, and possibly getting side tracked off of the Road to Zion (the daily road we have to walk to reach Heaven) by the Beast (in forms of money hunger, false prophets, verbal abuse, emotional manipulation, etc), never forget the feelings and experiences you had that you know in your Heart of hearts (The Holy Spirit speaks this truth to us) was good and for the right cause and remember that overwhelming feeling of happiness when you truly experience God's touch... place your faith back in Him and forget what other Human beings might do and say as "religious icons", and rather focus on doing what the Bible tells us and what the Holy spirit within yourself is telling you to do, which I know is REALLY, REALLY, REAAAAALLY hard most times, because being a sinner is 10 fold easier than listening to your inner voice and doing what is right.

The amazing thing that I picked up on (reading your posts), is that my views on the Bible, and religion/connection with God, is exactly as wonderful as your first encounters with God in this thread... inexplicable things taking place which is truly amazing to behold and feel. I too feel there are MANY hidden secrets in The Book of Life (and through Bible study and meditation we can decipher these), and if we truly start listening to that little piece of God that lives within all of us (The Holy Spirit), then things start changing VERY rapidly (and in our case, for the better).

The timeline for my "rebirth" was on my 32nd Birthday which was just over a month ago (So I am not calling myself an expert, and I am humbly and honestly only speaking about my experiences and views on these matters, as I am still a student of God and will forever be until I meet the Big Boss one day).

I was brought up in a home with STRICT religious views, but never felt or understood God until recently and now after listening to God for myself, I have found MAJOR... nay... HUGE issues within my family and their core beliefs/views on certain things, as I feel they can't call themselves devoted Christians when their hearts are full of hate/greed/lust/whatever else.

Anyhow, long story short... I feel, again, from my personal experience, that we should look to God and His TRUE infinite wisdom, and we should look at God's truth as guidelines in this life, and not look at other humans... YES... by all means, congregate and discuss the Bible, figure out its secrets and use them to become a better person and establish a stronger spiritual connection, but always remember... a man will and is always only that... a MAN... and don't blindly follow men, even if they are "holy" - listen to what your inner voice tells you and if you feel this is God's truth, then act upon your feelings (but also in accordance to what the Bible tells us).

We are fallible creations... we are susceptible to the evils of the world and the Devil's things (flashy cars, money, big houses, alcohol abuse, lust, etc), but at the end of the day, in your last dying moments, when you blow out your final breath (be that peacefully on your death bed, or being crushed by a boulder at random), I firmly believe in those last few seconds, you will have to face yourself (face the Holy spirit/God) and be truthful with yourself, then there won't be any excuses or lies, because you alone will know in these moments that God's truth trumps all, then you will have to ask yourself: "why was I a rude, lazy, ungrateful prick towards my wife? Why did I not see that my constant alcohol abuse was befouling our lives to a point where it was basically tearing us apart? Why did I lie and steal? Why did I murder someone? Why did I physically cause pain/harm to others? Etc, etc, etc, etc"

We all have our own crosses to carry to the finish line, but if you GENUINELY give it 150% every single day of your life to atone for your past transgressions/trespassings, I truly believe things will be better and you will start noticing positive changes and experience the Divine.

Then on the flip-side for anyone who perhaps felt like reading this who isn't religious... look outside and see what the world is turning into, due to people not following the 10 commandments... if it's fictitious, why are things so bad all of a sudden? Why is the world being controlled by evil? So what if you don't believe in God... what harm can it do, to try and live in a good manner? Yes, you might not kill anyone, but are you truly faithful to your wife? Do you watch porn instead of sharing true love and passion with your wife? Do you lie daily? Do you steal (be that R1 or R1mil)? There are a billion good things that can come from living your life based on any of the religions of TRUE peace and love, so why not challenge yourself and give it a try? Yes, we go through tough times... but in the end it's part of life, no one is free from hurt and sadness in this life, but look around at others and instead of being selfish, help others too... why must you own a R5mil house, drive 10 cars, own a R200k computer, etc, when others are out there with nothing?

These small changes on a daily basis add up to inner peace and you will be blessed for your efforts.
 
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SCHUMI4EVER

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Right, so I don't have time to read all this stuff but I will as well as all the subsequent pages.

But one thing caught my eyes early on: Repossession of cars

Here's how that works, they take the car, the fob it off to someone for an insignificant portion of its value and then your debts REMAINS at initial value of the car, less any repayments you've made, less what they sold it for.

For instance let's say you have a R200 000 car which you've managed to make R40 000 in repayments on. They re-possess it and sell it for R60 000. YOU STILL OWE THEM R100 000 AND NOW HAVE NO CAR. Taking the car does not fully off-set the debt.

I'm not sure what the solution is, but you need to be aware of this.

Based on what I learned in insolvent estates a few years back the best thing to do is declare insolvency early rather than living in denial and just careening toward it being forced on you. This way a liquidator is appointed and assets are sold off for a lot closer to fair value to cover as much of the debt as possible. Thereafter debt repayments are controlled to ensure minimum living standards can be kept up and anything extra automatically goes to paying off the outstanding debts at newly agreed upon terms between the liquidator and the creditors. It's not nice living with someone else controlling your life. But it's even less nice to just constantly be accosted from all sides and have everyone demanding what you don't have in a constantly worsening downward spiral.
The liquidator acts as an intermediary between the insolvent person and their creditors which means the insolvent person can just get on with the business of trying to return to solvency.



Not sure whether all of this applies or even whether I remember it all correctly or whether it has already been mentioned, but I feel it's food for thought nonetheless
 
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WarHeaD

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Correlation does not imply causation

I don't see the relevance... Do you mind clarifying the correlation between your statement and the quote?

My wife and I didn't go through exactly the same thing, nor the same timeline of said "rebirth", yet we've felt and seen/felt the same inexplicable things (same same, but different, nah mean?)?

That said, I've spoken to someone here at work, who is also extremely religious (also finding his ways still) and he too has experienced the exact same things that I was speaking of, inexplicable things that have taken place, yet we understand it 100% the same way, regardless of faith/beliefs/upbringing/cultural difference/race, etc (I'm a white South-African, who hasn't the faintest idea of true poverty, he is a black South-African, who lives in a shack in Philippi, and is a general hangar assistant here where we work, etc).

There are also deeper/stranger/older things than just plain old Christianity and the Bible that I have experienced and don't care to speak of here/now, which other people, random people I know nothing about, have also experienced 99,9% exactly like I have, so how do we explain that? I don't know... truly I don't, but to me it points to something bigger than just us humans on our little spec of dust in the universe, and if I had to choose, I'd much rather embrace the good side of said inexplicable happenings, live a peaceful life and live in accordance to what my heart of hearts tells me is right and wrong, compared to what true evil is out there (again, I've seen both sides of the coin).

There are tools out there that we as humans can use to experience so much more than just "blind faith"... and I'm not talking about hallucinogenic drugs or whatever... there are meditation routines, sounds frequencies, etc, that we can learn, use and experience things we can't explain.

Even if this a mental exercise and there is no God or afterlife... why not use these tools to find inner peace and become a better person?? Don't be a person who has R50 billion in the bank... yet he can't even give R2 to a beggar next to the road with nothing and is truly struggling... Become someone who doesn't judge another person for their flaws when they have their own flaws... become someone who doesn't think it's just part of life to drink liters of alcohol each weekend and even in the week who writes off cars and bikes... gets into physical fights with people, etc, etc... (A lot of these I am referring to myself, like I said, been there, seen that side... messed up severely and I'm still paying the price and I'm still trying to pick up the pieces again).

Why is it so wrong to be someone who doesn't want to do aforementioned "bad things"?

Why does modern society deem these (bad) things as "okay"?

Why is it acceptable for men to watch porn and send porn around like it's nothing? To look at any and all woman with impure thoughts? To look at others' belongings and feel envy? To look at your own possessions and feel pride? To look at others and feel hate? Etc...

Why is this acceptable, but being a good person isn't?

What is wrong with being a better person? A person that is empathetic towards others, that loves all human beings, all animals and everything this world has to offer outside of what we've been screwing up for hundreds of years with our constant technological drive and money hunger/greed?

People need to wake up and look beyond "religion" too - if you embrace your religion, so be it (great news I'm ecstatic for you!!)... if not, at least wake up and see what we're doing on a daily basis isn't right (regardless of religion).
 
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