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SauRoN

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Finding information on streaming latency and quality isn't easy, it's kind of new territory and most people aren't knowledgeable when it comes to networks, especially with regards to streaming.
The more I learn about it, the more I realize very little I really knew.

Also starting to see why the new AX standard is important and how inefficient the current standards are. Every milisecond counts when it comes to VR.
Yup even a bit of latency and a visual drop and you are in a vomit-comet.

Where does streaming fit into it though?
 

Montezuma

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Yup even a bit of latency and a visual drop and you are in a vomit-comet.

Where does streaming fit into it though?
I assume he means streaming as in streaming VR content to a wireless HMD like the Oculus Quest, not streaming as in Netflix etc. You can basically use the Quest to play any VR game or experience through a 3rd party app which takes the video, compresses it, and streams it from your PC to the Quest HMD using your wifi router.
 

WiZard

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I assume he means streaming as in streaming VR content to a wireless HMD like the Oculus Quest, not streaming as in Netflix etc. You can basically use the Quest to play any VR game or experience through a 3rd party app which takes the video, compresses it, and streams it from your PC to the Quest HMD using your wifi router.
You also get streaming VR movies on youtube.

The problem is that the movies are rendered on the PC, and the head tracking is therefore affected by the latency. In this regard the quest which does the rendering on the device itself has a clear advantage.

I am waiting for a headset with inside-out tracking lighthouse tracking, Valve Index display and a 802.11ay connection...
(apparently inside out tracking can't handle open motion simulators...)
 
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Montezuma

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You also get streaming VR movies on youtube.

The problem is that the movies are rendered on the PC, and the head tracking is therefore affected by the latency. In this regard the quest which does the rendering on the device itself has a clear advantage.

I am waiting for a headset with inside-out tracking, Valve Index display and a 802.11ay connection...
You mean movies rendered on the PC and then streamed to... what, the Go? Cause you said the Quest renders on the device so not sure which other device you'd mean?

And yeah, I'm also waiting for that headset, but mine has Reverb resolution, but Index quality (i.e. no Mura issues) and foveated rendering.
 

WiZard

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You mean movies rendered on the PC and then streamed to... what, the Go? Cause you said the Quest renders on the device so not sure which other device you'd mean?

And yeah, I'm also waiting for that headset, but mine has Reverb resolution, but Index quality (i.e. no Mura issues) and foveated rendering.
For best visuals, you would want a high end PC to do the rendering and to send it wirelessly to a headset, in which case latency becomes an issue (even in a VR180 streaming video, you can still look around, just not move around). While streaming can be done by standalone headsets on the device, that now requires going with a much less powerful system, a piss poor compromise due to all the other VR content that gets excluded (unless you stream it via RiftCat type software, in which case you have the latency problem again).

+1 on the Reverb resolution.
 

hideinlight

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I was surprised how good the headtracking latency was even with 2.4ghz streaming at low quality. The must noticable delay was actually with the controllers.
How they do it, I can only guess is they are prioritizing how a frame is drawn.

You'll notice that if you load a picture with slow internet, it loads part of it as it receives data. It takes longer to load an entire picture than just a small part of it.
Now if take into account how small the focus area is of your eyes and that the sweet spot of a VR headset is in the middle and only having a few milliseconds to draw that image, it would make sense to draw the middle part first, then the sides. I think that's how they are keeping the perceived latency low. Or with a similar concept.

Most of the latency I felt was on the controllers.
 

WiZard

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I was surprised how good the headtracking latency was even with 2.4ghz streaming at low quality. The must noticable delay was actually with the controllers.
...
Most of the latency I felt was on the controllers.
Who wants low quality? Is there some way of connecting it to create a non wireless system? (this would make a future 3rd party high bandwidth wireless streaming solution possible)

Good news for you then, as VR porn does not really use your controllers :p
 

hideinlight

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Who wants low quality? Is there some way of connecting it to create a non wireless system? (this would make a future 3rd party high bandwidth wireless streaming solution possible)

Good news for you then, as VR porn does not really use your controllers :p
Directly via usb, so far as I know, no.
There's was something about usb to ethernet adapter, but I have not read up enough on it to fully understand which ones work and which ones don't. The android OS does not support some of them apparently. And too be honest after experience wireless, going back to wired is such a drag now.

I see virtual Desktop also got an option to stream from PC now and that app is available on the OculusQuest store.
 

WiZard

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Directly via usb, so far as I know, no.
There's was something about usb to ethernet adapter, but I have not read up enough on it to fully understand which ones work and which ones don't. The android OS does not support some of them apparently. And too be honest after experience wireless, going back to wired is such a drag now.

I see virtual Desktop also got an option to stream from PC now and that app is available on the OculusQuest store.
Makes sense that going wired is a drag, but there are some use cases where wireless offers little to no advantages. Actually, only room scale (and larger) really benefit a lot, standing a bit, seated (which for me is about 80% of my VR library) benefits very little at all.

Any thoughts on the Pimax 5K Plus and Pimax 8K ?
 

hideinlight

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Makes sense that going wired is a drag, but there are some use cases where wireless offers little to no advantages. Actually, only room scale (and larger) really benefit a lot, standing a bit, seated (which for me is about 80% of my VR library) benefits very little at all.

Any thoughts on the Pimax 5K Plus and Pimax 8K ?
Valve Index pretty much made them irrelevant in my opinion. The 5k version is $800 on special and that excludes base stations and controllers.
However it fails to match the index in every category apart from the fov. The Valve index got enough bump in the fov to make the Pimax simply not worthwhile anymore (it has too many added hassles like beta quality software and it's build quality is not that great.

Every youtuber I followed had a failing or broken Pimax.
 

WiZard

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Valve Index pretty much made them irrelevant in my opinion. The 5k version is $800 on special and that excludes base stations and controllers.
However it fails to match the index in every category apart from the fov. The Valve index got enough bump in the fov to make the Pimax simply not worthwhile anymore (it has too many added hassles like beta quality software and it's build quality is not that great.

Every youtuber I followed had a failing or broken Pimax.
IDK, that 170 degree FOV must be very nice...

Did see a lot of posts complaining that Pimax supplies faulty cables!

What about the Pimax 5K XR ? OLED with large FOV (and some tradeoffs)
 
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hideinlight

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IDK, that 170 degree FOV must be very nice...

Dis see a lot of posts complaining that Pimax supplies faulty cables!

What about the Pimax 5K XR ? OLED with large FOV (and some tradeoffs)
Here's a quick video I found of it. So far it seems to be on par with the Vive pro screen.

I still would not get it, too pricey and the Index nailed comfort/audio and I believe 130 fov is good enough. If your eyeballs make love with the screen it could be more.
Got my VR Cover recently and my CV1 just feels so much better and made me with my Quest was a tiny bit more comfortable overall.

Also got to try out ALVR and even though it's not perfect @75 Mbit stream with 1.25 resoluttion with Hellblade I was pretty stunned at the amount of detail Senua and her blade had. Holy crap it just felt like it was on an entirely different level just by having a better screen.
The 6dof tracking does have minor lag @ that quality settings and it's more playable at @60Mbit and 1.0 resolution (which makes it look more like the CV1)

It's not perfect, but it shows how close we are to having wireless VR powered by an PC. What's interesting is it displays the Latency of encoding/decoding/and the time it takes to send that data to the router and to receive it. I get around 70ms total. When I switch everything to it's lowest setting I get 50ms.

In theory new network tech would be able to bring that 50ms down to around 11ms I think. That's the hope anyways.
 

Erohann

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Montezuma

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Question?
What is your IPD?
Hmm, also 64 I think. Forgot what I had it set as in the Rift and I know the number the Samsung O+ reports isn't a true number (something to do with the Samsung physical IPD adjustment vs WMR software reported number).
 

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