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Urgent help needed

F@Albert17

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Hi everyone so I'm in abit of a pickle

On the 9th of September I purchased a motorcycle it is a kawasaki zx6r 2011 from a private seller the bike looked very good appon inspection and I made the purchase rode it abit not that much due to work ...

Anyways on Sunday I dropped the bike off at a company that does servicing and so forth and asked the guy to let me know if he finds anything and give me quotes... little did I know the bike was a complete reck , welded frame cracked and welded swing arm swing arm also splitting on the right side , tank is body filled and was cut open to be panel beated I have whats app messed between my self and the selling him tellling me the bike was never in a accident or anything


So at the moment I want to sue him and try to get my money back because he won't reverse the sale on the sales agreement he just started

"sold as it ,voetstoots "


Any advice much appreciated [emoji120]

Kind regards to everyone

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Here are some pictures
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Voetstoots is fine, but if you asked him if it was in an accident and he didnt say anything then its a different story and you can very much take it further.

That bike is a wreck and you shouldnt be on it. Do you have any legal eagles you can reach out to?

Show the seller the photos, quote him where he said there is no damage, and threaten him. See if that works.

Also get a damage report from the service center
 
Voetstoots is fine, but if you asked him if it was in an accident and he didnt say anything then its a different story and you can very much take it further.

That bike is a wreck and you shouldnt be on it. Do you have any legal eagles you can reach out to?

Show the seller the photos, quote him where he said there is no damage, and threaten him. See if that works.

Also get a damage report from the service center
I showed him photos he said he was not aware of anything and that the sale is done and that I could have damaged it and am now trying to make him liable

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I showed him photos he said he was not aware of anything and that the sale is done and that I could have damaged it and am now trying to make him liable

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He also said I will get no movement on it from a legal point of view as the bike was sold as is as per voetstoots

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Following for interests sake.

Sorry man, this is a shit situation, and makes me have second thoughts about buying a bike - certainly won't do it privately now! :(
 
From what I understand, unless you can prove that he knew of the damage beforehand, you are screwed...

Caveat emptor

Unless the seller is a dealer of some kind, in which case the CPA might apply.
 
Too much time has passed by the looks of things (meaning the lesser probably cannot give you any money as it is), also the ownus lies on the buyer to make sure the vehicle in question is as the seller says.

Voetstoets is a bag of dicks and no longer applies for many, many things but unfortunately for this it does. As said in a previous post, get someone reputable to provide written proof that the damage to the motorcycle was done and fixed previous to purchase and then the sale becomes fraudulent.

On a side note, I will never buy a sports/superbike from a private seller, although I have no doubt there are decent people out there, those bikes get the shit ridden outta them by redneck riders and all it takes is a new set of plastics to cover half of it up. Dealership all the way if secondhand.
 
Thank you for the feedback at the moment I am trying to source the previous owner before him to see if he made the guy aware of anything if so then I think I am a for away

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Too much time has passed by the looks of things (meaning the lesser probably cannot give you any money as it is), also the ownus lies on the buyer to make sure the vehicle in question is as the seller says.

Voetstoets is a bag of dicks and no longer applies for many, many things but unfortunately for this it does. As said in a previous post, get someone reputable to provide written proof that the damage to the motorcycle was done and fixed previous to purchase and then the sale becomes fraudulent.

On a side note, I will never buy a sports/superbike from a private seller, although I have no doubt there are decent people out there, those bikes get the shit ridden outta them by redneck riders and all it takes is a new set of plastics to cover half of it up. Dealership all the way if secondhand.
I appreciate the information thank you kindly at this point i dont really know what to do and I am awaiting my written report

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Check the ownership history against repair reports/insurance claims. If the bike was that badly damaged, it may have been written off. That the seller should disclose.did you get a maintenance schedule? If so, check with them if you can pinpoint when the rebuild was done. Get legal opinion. From what i understand voetstoods does not protect the selller from material non-disclosure. Sorry man, really messed up situation, but sadly not the first time something like this happens.
 
Check the ownership history against repair reports/insurance claims. If the bike was that badly damaged, it may have been written off. That the seller should disclose.did you get a maintenance schedule? If so, check with them if you can pinpoint when the rebuild was done. Get legal opinion. From what i understand voetstoods does not protect the selller from material non-disclosure. Sorry man, really messed up situation, but sadly not the first time something like this happens.
I spoke to the guy earlier he gave me a call and he owned the bike for around 3 to 4 months and he keeps saying he was un aware of what I am telling him and also contacted the owner before him and asked him about it


how would I be able to get the insurance claims on the bike and so forth ?

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Hi everyone so I'm in abit of a pickle

On the 9th of September I purchased a motorcycle it is a kawasaki zx6r 2011 from a private seller the bike looked very good appon inspection and I made the purchase rode it abit not that much due to work ...

Anyways on Sunday I dropped the bike off at a company that does servicing and so forth and asked the guy to let me know if he finds anything and give me quotes... little did I know the bike was a complete reck , welded frame cracked and welded swing arm swing arm also splitting on the right side , tank is body filled and was cut open to be panel beated I have whats app messed between my self and the selling him tellling me the bike was never in a accident or anything


So at the moment I want to sue him and try to get my money back because he won't reverse the sale on the sales agreement he just started

"sold as it ,voetstoots "


Any advice much appreciated [emoji120]

Kind regards to everyone

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This is a proper kaak one - maybe @milkshakes can offer any advice?

Where did you and the seller first start talking about the sale?
 
how would I be able to get the insurance claims on the bike and so forth ?

check with a dealer. The insurers share the information, but it would require that the bike was insured... The dealers have access to it. I woukd also check the licensing authority yo see it it was previously scrapped (code 3?). See if kawasaki will help in collecting some info?
 
check with a dealer. The insurers share the information, but it would require that the bike was insured... The dealers have access to it. I woukd also check the licensing authority yo see it it was previously scrapped (code 3?). See if kawasaki will help in collecting some info?
Yes this is a propper kak one I don't know why you get people like this on this planet but otherwise I don't think there is much I can really do about it at this point it seems hopeless

And honestly the seller doesn't seem aware as he only had the bike for 2 to 3 months It seems the guy before him fucked something up


So I dont think anything will hold up in court as I have no way to prove he was aware

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This is a real shame :( how much did the bike cost, and what are the specs like mileage etc., for interests sake?
 
Have you had a chat with a lawyer? I know alot of used vehicle law is completely unintelligible by human bieings, it might cost you a few Bob, but can ve very worth it.

As for used bikes, in this country, there is alot of shadyness, i own a grey import GSXR, i had no clue when I bought it, only figured it out when I released I couldn't change the cluster to stop giving me temprature in farenheight. Previous accident damage, not likely repaired in this country even, so it doesn't show up on any of our records... I don't mind bike was cheap and it has been inspected and found safe, only cosmetic damage.
 
Sorry dude, Jerks are coming outta the wood work.

I hope you get it sorted.

This is a last resort option.

I know there are broken bikes sitting with out engines. Perhaps you could buy a frame and transfer the internals to it. i have done this before.
 
Afaik - but not that it'll help here - is voetstoots is only relevant for issues that the seller could not have been aware of or is mechanical wear
Like a "running and driving vehicle" but the Axle is snapped in half - obvious issues
If the bike is driveable,and passed a roadworthy,and the issues described wouldn't disqualify it from roadworthy status then it's possible he just didn't know
 
Well the CPA does not apply to this case however hope is not lost. Just because the CPA cant help you doesn't mean private buyers are helpless.

First I have to ask was it agreed up front between yourself and the seller that the deal was "as is" or "voetstoets"
If it was then you are pretty screwed, If not, then the deal was not. A seller cant come after the deal was done and claim the "as is" clause.

If not then you can argue that the bike has latent defects that was potentially hidden from you. But if you say this you will have to prove it. If no mention of "as is" was made as part of the deal or was not listed on the ad then you can sue him for the cancelation of the deal. Get a lawyer and ask for advice.
 
Ah man! This is a horrible situation. I hope you find a way out...

However, if you value your life at all, please don't ride that at any decent speed.
 
The longer you leave this without talking to a lawyer the harder it would get to do something about it. If we assume "Implied warranty of quality" you should have 6 months to lodge this dispute. ( https://www.michalsons.com/blog/returns-under-the-consumer-protection-act/9191 )

Go pay a lawyer for his/her hour and the hour it's going to take her/his legal secretary to write a strongly worded letter and to give your seller a call.

You don't have to sue. Having people stand around in expensive suits always costs more money that someone making a "friendly" phone call. Sometimes when an authoritative third party explains the situation in no uncertain terms, these kinds of problems sublimate.

And before you do, you print every conversation you had and every photo you took, every report from the repair company, proof of payment, the advertisement placed etc. etc. and get everything ordered, wasting the lawyer's time cost *you* money.

1) https://www.michalsons.com/blog/voetstoots-gets-the-boot/7205

Voetstoots does not protect against all defects or relieves any seller, private or not, from their responsibility of representing the item truthfully. For instance when selling a car, you have the responsibility to make sure it is safe to drive and in good condition, unless you describe what makes it not road worthy or unsafe and/or sell it as scrap.

Claiming ignorance of condition (as your seller has admitted) gives no protection and opens him up to misrepresentation issues.

Selling a Car? Know your Rights! - CarZar

2)
He also said I will get no movement on it from a legal point of view as the bike was sold as is as per voetstoots
Oh? Is he a lawyer then? Or maybe he has some experience in dealing with these kind of deals. Sounds real fishy to me. And with fish I mean shark.
I spoke to the guy earlier he gave me a call and he owned the bike for around 3 to 4 months and he keeps saying he was un aware of what I am telling him and also contacted the owner before him and asked him about it
Claims of innocence and ignorance and pointing the finger at someone else....
Thank you for the feedback at the moment I am trying to source the previous owner before him to see if he made the guy aware of anything if so then I think I am a for away

I would strongly advise you to stop engaging the seller and go get a third party (a lawyer) to take over the "negotiations". What would contacting the person he points fingers at achieve? Ask yourself if he gave up the third party's details or played for time and frustration.

From your description, in my opinion, it is starting to sound like fencing of a insurance write off after a welding and body putty party.

Everyone in this thread is just speculating. You would not ask advice here if you suddenly grew a third arm, would you? You would go see a doctor? Go see that lawyer, even if it just for your own peace of mind.


I wish you good luck.
 
Hi everyone thank you for all the feedback I love this community I payed 75k for the bike its a 2011 zx6r after threatening the guy with a lawsuit I manged to get 4k out of him otherwise thats it, I spoke to 2 lawyers and I concluded its not worth my time and effort im looking at a date only half way tough next year but I have decided to give the bike a make over I have already orderd all the parts and so forth

Unfortunately there are people like this out there I am only 21 years old and don't have much experience with this but I know for future now and I hope anyone reading this will be aware of the kind of people out there

Thanks again everyone



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Ah man! This is a horrible situation. I hope you find a way out...

However, if you value your life at all, please don't ride that at any decent speed.
The guy looking at the bike said he will make sure its safe for me to ride if anyone is in capetown and needs quality repairs I cannot , and I mean I cannot vouch for anyone but spit bike and polish he is such a nice guy and his quality of work is amazing he has taken the bike to peices and not even charged me he has checked everything for me and not even charged me because he understands the situation I am in he told me the frame looks good there is a slight dent in the frame and the swing arm is split the tank has body filler in but will be replaced

So far I have ordered a new tank ,swing arm , chain and sprocket new fork seals and service , new front breaks and disks it does cost alot but I may aswell enjoy the bike, I'm not a person who will just get rid of it and hide it from the next buyer

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The guy looking at the bike said he will make sure its safe for me to ride if anyone is in capetown and needs quality repairs I cannot , and I mean I cannot vouch for anyone but spit bike and polish he is such a nice guy and his quality of work is amazing he has taken the bike to peices and not even charged me he has checked everything for me and not even charged me because he understands the situation I am in he told me the frame looks good there is a slight dent in the frame and the swing arm is split the tank has body filler in but will be replaced

So far I have ordered a new tank ,swing arm , chain and sprocket new fork seals and service , new front breaks and disks it does cost alot but I may aswell enjoy the bike, I'm not a person who will just get rid of it and hide it from the next buyer

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Damn man, i'm so sorry about this whole situation. Currently looking at getting a bike myself.

I'm glad there are some good people in this world still like the guy that's helping you out
 
The guy looking at the bike said he will make sure its safe for me to ride if anyone is in capetown and needs quality repairs I cannot , and I mean I cannot vouch for anyone but spit bike and polish he is such a nice guy and his quality of work is amazing he has taken the bike to peices and not even charged me he has checked everything for me and not even charged me because he understands the situation I am in he told me the frame looks good there is a slight dent in the frame and the swing arm is split the tank has body filler in but will be replaced

So far I have ordered a new tank ,swing arm , chain and sprocket new fork seals and service , new front breaks and disks it does cost alot but I may aswell enjoy the bike, I'm not a person who will just get rid of it and hide it from the next buyer

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Ah that's all good then. Can't imagine leaning at 200 and a wheel bearing or swing arm bearing fails. If you are confident with the bike, that is all that matters.

This is one of those situations where the quicker you make peace, the better. I assume you accepted your lot, considering you are ordering parts for the machine. I hope she gets fixed up soon and you are on the road again in no time.

Ride safe dude. Remember, all the gear all the time.
 
Damn man, i'm so sorry about this whole situation. Currently looking at getting a bike myself.

I'm glad there are some good people in this world still like the guy that's helping you out
He has been great to me honestly and has probably spent over 20 hours on the bike he has ven changed all the nuts and bolts on it to make it look new and is still currently working on the bike he is an honest guy with a good heart and the quality of his work is insane he does servicing , repairs , paint correction and more builds track bikes and all and I will always support him

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Ah that's all good then. Can't imagine leaning at 200 and a wheel bearing or swing arm bearing fails. If you are confident with the bike, that is all that matters.

This is one of those situations where the quicker you make peace, the better. I assume you accepted your lot, considering you are ordering parts for the machine. I hope she gets fixed up soon and you are on the road again in no time.

Ride safe dude. Remember, all the gear all the time.
I'm not one to look back at the past I learn from my mistakes and move on , I dont see a point in drowning in tears when moving on will make one happier im looking forward to the bike looking spick and span , he has checked everything on the bike even gone has far as the motor , head bairngs and wheel bairings he told me he won't let me ride the bike home until he is done inspecting it and he will make sure its safe

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