Redo motor over or motor swap.

[CluelessDeath]

Hi guys.

So I'm sitting in a bit of a pickle and I'm confused which way to go.

I have a 2001 1.3 carb MK1 golf. was at the dyno yesterday because my car has been performing piss poor lately. Been getting like 250km off a R500, very sluggish etc. Turns out I'm low on compression on the first cylinder, intake manifold is pulling air and rings are pretty much shot(knew about the rings already). After 2 hours of setting and tuning shit they only managed to get 50kw

Now the thing is, they say to completely redo my motor it would cost about 5.5k, which doesn't sound too bad. But the car is already on 340 000kms so is it really worth it to recon the engine? Or would it make more sense to spend more and go the cliche route of motor swopping it with an engine that's got much lower kms? Like maybe a 2l 8v mk3 motor or even a 1.6/1.8 that's more reliable and lighter on fuel. I don't want to be fixing shit every other week because "mods", and the parts on the 1.3 are currently quite cheap.

Any advice would be appreciated.

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[DannyBoyOPC]

You could buy a second hand engine but then you have 2 problems:

1) you could get a 2nd hand engine which isnt in great condition so might need work done and in the end turns out to be more expensive ( we have had instances where we get replacement engines with bent valves or worse )
2) once done would require police clearance as the engine numbers in the car wont match the engine numbers on the papers and that in itself is a mammoth task.

I would rather rebuild the original engine if possible, with that being said tho i stand to be corrected but that engine can go from 1.4 to 2.0 without changing the block. It would of course require new parts and engineering etc, but comes down to what you want to spend on the car

 

[Mole_ZA]

The 2.0 will be heavy on fuel but a bunch of fun, did this when I had a Golf.
Personally if you could find a 1.4i and dump it in there it would be a sweet spot.

 

[Mikel89]

Drop a 2l ABF motor in there but keep the 1.3's gearbox. You'll have to upgrade the brakes too, but you'll have a robot to robot demon.

Seriously though, police clearance etc is a schlep for new engines. I'd have them redo the motor with high comp pistons, new cam etc etc. Like @DannyBoyOPC said, one cannot guarantee that the "new" motor will be okay.

 

[George S]

You could buy a second hand engine but then you have 2 problems:

1) you could get a 2nd hand engine which isnt in great condition so might need work done and in the end turns out to be more expensive ( we have had instances where we get replacement engines with bent valves or worse )
2) once done would require police clearance as the engine numbers in the car wont match the engine numbers on the papers and that in itself is a mammoth task.

I would rather rebuild the original engine if possible, with that being said tho i stand to be corrected but that engine can go from 1.4 to 2.0 without changing the block. It would of course require new parts and engineering etc, but comes down to what you want to spend on the car

Having been in this situation bofore. I speak from Experience based on having to rebuild my R1200S, the motor siezed and had a brick.

You can get a complete engine for a car/bike from a scrapyard for a 5th of the price of a rebuild. And given that it is a 1.3 VW motor they will be very common.
It is Way quicker to just swap a motor and then just reregister the car, then having to strip and rebuild, labour is what gets you.

Cons is the the car will be classified as a code 3 though. However the original block already has 330k on it, you will likely have to replace more than you will be able to keep.

Normally a motor that has been opened wil not last as long as a second hand motor in general, given that the motor was serviced normally etc.

 

[DannyBoyOPC]

unless things have changed it should not be classified as a code 3, they simple do a new engine number on the papers and then give you another enatis doc for the car with the correct engine number, provided the engine you bought is not stolen etc.

Again i stand to be corrected, as that i what happened when i did back then

 

[CluelessDeath]

If I went for a new motor(well new 2nd hand), I would go through Mike's, and their motors are reliable aren't they? Seeing as you hear about them a lot. Also, 5.5 isn't a lot of money to simply just redo it, but like it was previously said, would it actually last?

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[CluelessDeath]

And if I go for a 1.4i like you say Danny, I would have to change the tank and pump and all that right?

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[Blitzkrieg194]

Drop a 2l ABF motor in there but keep the 1.3's gearbox. You'll have to upgrade the brakes too, but you'll have a robot to robot demon.

Seriously though, police clearance etc is a schlep for new engines. I'd have them redo the motor with high comp pistons, new cam etc etc. Like @DannyBoyOPC said, one cannot guarantee that the "new" motor will be okay.

Currently running a 82 mk1 with that exact engine... many many fun drives but with the price of petrol nowadays i wouldn't recommend it for a everyday car

 

[DannyBoyOPC]

if you changing to fuel injection then yes you would need to change the petrol tank and get a fuel pump etc. but you can run the engine with the carb setup and still have a good running car.

It all depends on ur budget and how far you wanna go.. at the end of the day, repairing the current 1.4 engine would be the cheapest and least amount of headaches.

But then again this is just my 2c of an opinion

 

[Skalabala]

Interesting, there is no way on this planet that a 1.3 golf will make 50kw. Not even with a 272 cam.
And an engine rebuild at 340k km for R5500, not possible. If you want to cheap out on the rebuild like they plan to do then just do it your self then
A conversion on your budget is a bad idea, you will have endless problems. However you can fit a 1.4i engine and use carburetor on that, BTW its not a direct fit conversion.

Get a friend with some experience and do a simple rebuild with him. Don't forget to do the carburetor as well.

 

[CluelessDeath]

Unless I was extremely blind, the dyno sheet said 50. Something. And I wasn't exactly trying to cheap out, that's how much he said it would cost, i don't know how much it normally costs. I'm a noob when it comes to motors [emoji23]

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[Sub-lime]

50kw + is achievable on a 1.3 carb even with decent mileage and some work. (

).

I would get a second opinion on rebuilding costs. Maybe speak to your nearest Goldwagen for some referrals on a good company to do it.

It shouldn't be a lot but while the engine is out, replace engine mountings and send the gearbox out for servicing. Once it's done you will have piece of mind.

Keep it simple and do some preventative maintenance.

 

[CluelessDeath]

And that's basically on 3.5 cylinders

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[Sub-lime]

And that's basically on 3.5 cylinders

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Who did the dyno run?

 

[DJ Spidey]

Bud. From experience i have done +- 5 of these conversions.

If you decide to upgrade to a 1.4i,1.6i,1.8i or 2.0i you will need to buy a electronic fuelpump +-1k from a spares shop.
You will also need a computer box....Mp9 unit or an aftermarket like Gotech,spitronic, Dicktator or Efi +-2k-3k.
I had a 1.4i which was very light on fuel and then swop the motor out for a 2.0i 2E longblock motor which was also light on fuel(15km/l) running on the 1.4i mp9 unit.

You can buy the carburetor versions of any of these motors then you dont have to buy the Electronic Fuel Management computers.
All of these motors above is a straight fit, so no modifications needs to be done to the mountings ect.

So for the calculations.
R5500 to rebuild your motor

To do the conversion to fuel injected motor.

+-R7500 for import motor
+-R2500 for EFI Computer
+-R1000 for electronic fuel pump
+ Money for Police clearance
+ Money for labour
+ Money for Service of import motor
+ Money for upgrading breaks

I would say if you got the extra cash and you where planning on doing the conversion in future anyway.....then just bite the bullet and do it now. The results is worth it.

 

[Sub-lime]

Bud. From experience i have done +- 5 of these conversions.

If you decide to upgrade to a 1.4i,1.6i,1.8i or 2.0i you will need to buy a electronic fuelpump +-1k from a spares shop.
You will also need a computer box....Mp9 unit or an aftermarket like Gotech,spitronic, Dicktator or Efi +-2k-3k.
I had a 1.4i which was very light on fuel and then swop the motor out for a 2.0i 2E longblock motor which was also light on fuel(15km/l) running on the 1.4i mp9 unit.

You can buy the carburetor versions of any of these motors then you dont have to buy the Electronic Fuel Management computers.
All of these motors above is a straight fit, so no modifications needs to be done to the mountings ect.

So for the calculations.
R5500 to rebuild your motor

To do the conversion to fuel injected motor.

+-R7500 for import motor
+-R2500 for EFI Computer
+-R1000 for electronic fuel pump
+ Money for Police clearance
+ Money for labour
+ Money for Service of import motor
+ Money for upgrading breaks

I would say if you got the extra cash and you where planning on doing the conversion in future anyway.....then just bite the bullet and do it now. The results is worth it.

Sounds cheap for ecu, last one I bought was a perfect power xms5b. That was about 7k and the harness to.

Money to tune ecu.
Time and huge patience to do police clearance.

 

[CluelessDeath]

Who did the dyno run?

HOC Tuning in Mitchells plain. I'm assuming it's exaggerated power?

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[DJ Spidey]

Sounds cheap for ecu, last one I bought was a perfect power xms5b. That was about 7k and the harness to.

Money to tune ecu.
Time and huge patience to do police clearance.

Engine Management Systems : Gotech-MFI, Online Shopping

 

[franco1s]

If it's gonna cost 5.5 to redo the motor completely, that's a good price, that's if it includes new parts, sleeves, pistons, oil pump, cylinder head overhaul, all engineering and labour etc...

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[franco1s]

HOC Tuning in Mitchells plain. I'm assuming it's exaggerated power?

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Is 5.5k the price Paul/Chestin them gave you to overhaul it? Just get clarity on what the overhaul will entail, from there on you should be able to make a decision, they could possibly do a proper full overhaul at that price, seeing their brother owns the spares next door to them.

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[franco1s]

Careful with the lingo, recon more than likely means way different to complete overhaul in some mechs eyes, just putting it out there, sometimes they say recon and that entails just hone on the block and slapping new rings on your old pistons, not saying they'll do that but just cover yourself, get specifics on what will be replaced [emoji106]

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[CluelessDeath]

Doesn't sound like a full rebuild

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[franco1s]

Doesn't sound like a full rebuild

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Thought as much, I don't have a link but there's a vw forum that you can try, they should have better info regarding pricing for a complete overhaul, if you don't want to go the re-sleeve route, depending on the bore condition of your block, a rebore to 10/20 thousand with matching pistons might work out cheaper vs a re-sleeve.

Also, do yourself a favour and get a 2nd opinion on the compression issue, have another compression test done at another place, heck you can even do it yourself if you buy/lend a compression tester....

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[Skalabala]

Yes have someone else do a compression test.
It costs R1000 to rebore the block vs R3000 to re sleeve. No point to re sleeve that old block. Pistons are R600 for Arco brand.
Get the parts from master parts and rebuild it
You can cheap out on it real good. Buy gasket set rings and oil pump, thats all you need for that engine to last for you to save up for a conversion.
If you have a conversion in mind then there is no point in doing a proper rebuild that sits you back at around R12k

Get in contact with oom @shimmie he might have a mechanic for you.

And as a side note 50wkw, on a happy dyno at the cost might work. 1.6 velocity makes 50wkw
Your car will feel super fast with real 50wkw.

 

[franco1s]

Also, do have someone check the clearance on the cylinder that's low on compression, hell it just might be a lifter that seized up, now that valve ain't closing completely causing compression and performance issues, just something worth checking before taking the motor apart.

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[-=sT3V3=-]

I rebuilt my 1.3 motor a few years back, it was not worth it. all in all I spent about 15k. In the end you are still stuck with a 1.3.
I converted to 2l ady motor on mp9 and have been happy since
- more power when you need it
- fewer old engine issues
- better gas mileage

Going fuel injection does not need a new tank, I found a way to mount an in-tank corsa pump to the stock pickup. maybe search for my thread on the vw club forum about that.

topic has been discussed to death on vwclub - best bet is to research old threads and topic on there.

ps. 50wkw is a lying dyno

 

[Skalabala]

Its a shame he is not this side. Would have done a leak down test for free.
As said, maybe its a burnt valve. But yeah the mileage is high, they dont usually do much more than that.

 

[Nikkel]

I rebuilt my 1.3 motor a few years back, it was not worth it. all in all I spent about 15k. In the end you are still stuck with a 1.3.
I converted to 2l ady motor on mp9 and have been happy since
- more power when you need it
- fewer old engine issues
- better gas mileage

Going fuel injection does not need a new tank, I found a way to mount an in-tank corsa pump to the stock pickup. maybe search for my thread on the vw club forum about that.

topic has been discussed to death on vwclub - best bet is to research old threads and topic on there.

ps. 50wkw is a lying dyno

Mitchell's Plain's coastal air is good for 15kw bro