New Toyota 86 / Subaru BRZ with potentially 255bhp

[JollyJamma]

This is simply not true. The different between the turbo car and the n/a in the same chassis is cast.

The added items to make the turbo cars faster and still safe add alot of weight . The block alone is re-enforced. At 630K for the current car plus the extra cost for the turbo unit. The new 86 will not be cheap in SA.

I have actually worked on these cars.

Educate me, please.

Do they change the composition of the metal for the engine block for different models? Ie the 2.0 Subaru models use a higher tensile steel.

 

[aiccc]

Quick reply

The turbo block is semi closed. The pistons and rod and crank, injectors, coils, ecu, cams, wiring, gearbox, diff, propshaft, front brakes, brake booster, intake, radiator, powersteering rack, clutch, head casting number, tgv housings, timing belt due to head, crank pulley, oil sump, g/b shifter, engine harness, is different.

Inside the gearbox, the lay shafts are thicker, the gear width is wider, The clutch disk is thicker and wider, pressure plate has more fingers and higher pressure. The diff is LSD. Either vlsd or mech lsd.

The clutch is hydraulic , self adjusting on the turbo. The NA has a cable clutch.

The turbo model has better hubs, to deal with the extra heat from the brakes.

The ABS unit has a different programming on the NA model vs the turbo.

Of-course the turbo model has, turbo, inter-cooler, oil water heat inter-changer and different type of oil and water pumps. But the addition of these items results in different routing of oil and water pipes and more oil and water pipes to service these additional parts. For example the turbo is water cooled, to ensure the turbo does not coke the oil in the turbo bearings, there is a coolant header tank on the turbo engine that does not exist on the NA model.

The addition of a turbo requires more volume of oil and more pressure. So a different oil pump is used.

The turbo model requires more fuel, so the fuel pump is bigger and has a higher pressure. The lines are therefore thicker.

On SOME turbo models the powersteering, has a cooler. On some turbo models the clutch has a fluid cooling loop.

The exhaust headers are different and made from better material. Due in part to the added heat, they will experience.

And so on...

 

[JollyJamma]

 

[Noodle]

There is no way this car will make sense in SA as the 86 is already a stupid purchase at R630K. When I still had my S2000 I drove it back to back and was very unimpressed but I was judging it as a potential replacement which it was not (this was back when it was still 300K... for the exact same car/motor/suspension combo they are now expecting you to pay R630K for). I have no doubt owners are happy with their cars because it is a fun car... but I can't imagine anyone is still buying them when there are SO MANY better cars out there for that kind of money.

As for the Yaris good luck with it costing 500K...highly developed, low production volume AWD monster? It might end up being even be more expensive than the Supra.

Speaking of which when I was recently shopping I received the full arrogance of Toyota SA around launch time. 2 months later they were still trying to get me to buy one so I went in and got hit by their usual 1960s sales tactics of bolting on 120K for a motorplan and saying what we spoke about on the phone was ex. VAT etc. Told the dude to literally F-off (and those who know me, know that swearing is reserved for a select few people). I posted the chat over at BMWFanatics when it was happening... Lo and behold they have called me again now offering me a brand new one for 949K... I doubt they have sold many. The reason I relay this story is that they probably know if they bring the 86 revision in they probably aren't going to sell many. Toyota and many of the others (nissan included) are in a situation where their cars (sub 600K) used to be overpriced or illogical but a brand fanatic or enthusiast would buy them. Now they are effectively in a territory (R600 to R1.5M) where the people who actually want them can't afford them or justify buying them and they are simultaneously becoming ever more diluted.

The 86 is seriously a great car, but almost nobody in SA is buying them new. Toyota SA cares about Hiluxes, Fortuners & Ravs (And Hiaces, of course) above all else.

Cost for a new 86 is ridiculous, and nobody in their right mind would buy one unless they're a super fan. The 2nd hand models are cheap and just as good as the new ones IMO.

 

[Jaeson365]

Hi all

So there’s a new 86 coming and it’s potentially going to be closer to the original Supra than the current Supra ever was: RWD, turbocharged and 255bhp.

I think this is a great option as the new Supra is hideously expensive and not everyone’s cup of tea. An 86 with Supra-Like traits might be more like it.

Certainly, it’s closer to my dads ‘89 Supra which has an in-line 6 twin turbo layout.

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Thank you for bringing this to my attention