Need advice or assistance with backup power, please

[disquisitive.ape]

To be fair to the CoCT, they didn't ban the off-grid inverters just to be a bunch of (insert favorite expletive here), they did it because a lot of (more expletives here) people were lying on their registration forms. They were installing unapproved grid-tied inverters and just registering as off-grid since nobody checked the off-grid installs and only a COC was needed. They started doing some spot checks and discovered this problem, so they closed the loophole by just removing off-grid inverters as an option. Now all inverters must be approved and signed off.
So if you want to be angry at someone for this, it's the unscrupulous installers and diyers who lied on their applications to the CoCT.

This is like saying, extra strong gun ownership laws is going to deter criminals from committing crime with guns. The laws only apply to those that register and keep by it, making them more strict for those that try and keep by the rules is not going to deter criminals, because:

*Criminals don't play by your rules and simply don't care until you make them care*

Want to change the issue of people not following the rules?

ENFORCEMENT AND FINES.

But that requires actual work and resources. Much easier to overreach by writing silly overly broad rules.

Also, you could previously install inverters that was certified by any country's authority to be within the specification that the inverter advertised. i.e. it was certified to be fit for purpose. Now the list is only that which the CoCT approves via external agencies for Hybrid. Luckly for many, it is a loooong list of suppliers.

For *Hybrid that could feed back into the grid, the list makes total TOTAL sense*, but for off-grid (i.e. the inverter itself islands from the input (it may still measure the input galvanically) before the inverter backed power kicks in and effectively turns your house into an off grid installation for the duration of delivering power from battery, i.e. it cannot feedback power), it makes no sense and makes it unnecessarily expensive. In fact. The Inverter trollies does exactly this, except they are not directly connected (have circuit breakers in between Eskom and them and they don't feed into your house's load wiring) So why are they not banned as well?

Also notice, as far as I am aware: Correct installations that was CoCed and is correct, is not required to be uninstalled. They were fully compliant before Oct. 2023.

The changes makes NO sense to me. Better would have been if they codified lekker hefty SPOT fines and what damages you will be responsible for in case of calamity and started enforcing this on BOTH the owner AND the installer.

 

[Ultimate]

I don’t know how long the power will be out, but if you get something like this just to run the critical loads — Wi-Fi, router PC, and the cash-generating computer — it should last quite a long time and is relatively cheap.

Is it usually days without power, or just a few hours because if just hour,s no point in spenidng 10's of thousands?

Builders | Shop DIY, Paint and Building Materials Online

 

[SnowmanZA]

For *Hybrid that could feed back into the grid, the list makes total TOTAL sense*, but for off-grid (i.e. the inverter itself islands from the input (it may still measure the input galvanically) before the inverter backed power kicks in and effectively turns your house into an off grid installation for the duration of delivering power from battery, i.e. it cannot feedback power), it makes no sense and makes it unnecessarily expensive. In fact. The Inverter trollies does exactly this, except they are not directly connected (have circuit breakers in between Eskom and them and they don't feed into your house's load wiring) So why are they not banned as well?

I understand exactly how the different types of inverter work. (I actually designed inverters for a living). I'm not saying that banning off-grid inverters makes sense technically, it was just simpler for the CoCT to do that than to try and police every installation. The only reason they would need to police every installation is because a lot of people decided it was simpler and cheaper to be dishonest and lie on their applications. You can't blame the CoCT for this. Their reaction might seem heavy-handed, but it was the simplest way for them to solve the majority of the problem and requires no effort on their part.

 

[Geriatrix]

I don’t know how long the power will be out, but if you get something like this just to run the critical loads — Wi-Fi, router PC, and the cash-generating computer — it should last quite a long time and is relatively cheap.

Looks not too bad, but "should last quite a long time" does not really help. Not a dig, just I need more exact information, as in "yes, this unit will keep all your devices running for at least 4 hours"

Is it usually days without power, or just a few hours because if just hour,s no point in spenidng 10's of thousands?

Builders | Shop DIY, Paint and Building Materials Online

It's typically off only for about an hour max, except when it runs out at like 2AM, then it's off till someone gets up and realises there's no power. The main point here is, I am often out at clients, so I am looking for that "protection" when I am not at home, more than anything. Piece of mind and all that.

 

[Ultimate]

exact information

Your kilowatt meter would definitely help you calculate the backup time, since there’s no point in guessing how much power the PC uses. If this is your only goal, just connect the essential devices to the plug and see how much power they draw.

 

[Geriatrix]

Your kilowatt meter would definitely help you calculate the backup time, since there’s no point in guessing how much power the PC uses. If this is your only goal, just connect the essential devices to the plug and see how much power they draw.

Fair enough. As I stated further up, one of the Carbies is coming out to me today to drop off a meter and also to check out my layout to give advice, so I will see what he recommends.

 

[vno-too]

Here is my 5c worth, if the rented room is only connected via an extension lead, then it is "off-grid" for all intents and purposes, if the owner/landlord is happy to allow @Geriatrix to install some panels on the roof, then maybe that's not the worst option to consider...
You'd have to look at your daily/average energy usage over a week or two and then one could do some sums about what may be required and come up with a number for the solar panels (my guess is 2kW worth or 4 X 500-odd W is probably a fair number) and then inverter size (I would look at 3000VA or larger and 48/51.2V battery Voltage rating) and then battery capacity would be based on daily consumption.(Again, I would go overboard, 15kWh battery (16 X 300-odd AH cells) probably would land you at app. R 15k + BMS and some hardware to make up the battery and a box to put it in, say another R 3k or so.)
For Cape Town, you might want to overpanel for those cloudy days, but it all depends on the daily electron consumption, to ensure you actually know where you stand with your energy stored and produced etc. you would probably add homeassistant as a VM on existing hardware or on a Raspberry Pi to collect data from the inverter & MPPT/Solar panels as well as from the BMS which would then give you a pretty good idea on where you stand...

 

[Qui_Illustrati]

15kWh battery (16 X 300-odd AH cells) probably would land you at app. R 15k + BMS and some hardware to make up the battery and a box to put it in, say another R 3k or so.)

Where? Can you send a link perhaps?

 

[ovisser1]

Where? Can you send a link perhaps?

I would also love to know,

[For Sale] - 14.3kWh DIY Kits | Off-the-Grid (Power)

Item: 14.3kWh DIY Kits Age: Brand new Price: R35000 per kit Payment Method Accepted: Cash / Instant EFT Warranty: 3 years on the batteries - non Local Supplier Warranty Holder: Myself Packaging: Original for most Condition: Brand new Location: Strand, Western Cape Reason: I built enough for...

carbonite.co.za

This was the cheapest I have ever seen something like that.

 

[vno-too]

@Qui_Illustrati @ovisser1 Take a peek at this page there were some specials on a while ago, of course these prices would still exclude shipping, its sea freight, though and obviously it will take 60 to 90 days to pitch locally, but the overall saving is huge compared to buying ready made batteries , I reckon, I'm running on 30kWh worth of EVE 300-odd Ah cells here totally off grid and have another 30kWh worth to add to the setup for those cloudy days... as for the R15k, maybe that was a bit on the optimistic side, but its not a heck of a lot more... certainly less than R25k / 15+kWh for the cells...

 

[Geriatrix]

Here is my 5c worth, if the rented room is only connected via an extension lead, then it is "off-grid" for all intents and purposes, if the owner/landlord is happy to allow @Geriatrix to install some panels on the roof, then maybe that's not the worst option to consider...
You'd have to look at your daily/average energy usage over a week or two and then one could do some sums about what may be required and come up with a number for the solar panels (my guess is 2kW worth or 4 X 500-odd W is probably a fair number) and then inverter size (I would look at 3000VA or larger and 48/51.2V battery Voltage rating) and then battery capacity would be based on daily consumption.(Again, I would go overboard, 15kWh battery (16 X 300-odd AH cells) probably would land you at app. R 15k + BMS and some hardware to make up the battery and a box to put it in, say another R 3k or so.)
For Cape Town, you might want to overpanel for those cloudy days, but it all depends on the daily electron consumption, to ensure you actually know where you stand with your energy stored and produced etc. you would probably add homeassistant as a VM on existing hardware or on a Raspberry Pi to collect data from the inverter & MPPT/Solar panels as well as from the BMS which would then give you a pretty good idea on where you stand...

Agreed, as I stated in a previous post, @SoF_ZA was here yesterday to look at my setup and drop off a meter that I will plug in sometime today (I need to shut all my systems down first) and then measure the usage for a week and get back to him and we will take it from there. He has provided me with a few possible options already, however, the result of the meter readings will determine EXACTLY which solution will work for me. Will keep you guys updated. Thank you to all for the insights and feedback, it is as always much appreciated.

 

[Ultimate]

@Geriatrix, so how much power do you use?

 

[Geriatrix]

@Geriatrix, so how much power do you use?

I did not use the plug/adapter because reasons. I will be closing this thread as well. Thank you for your assistance, all.