Beginner commuter bike

[TimBru14]

Hi all

Not sure if this is really the right place for this but I'm going to try my luck anyways 😁 I have been interested in getting a motorbike to ease the cost of my daily commute (I live in Durban and drive between Glenwood and Umhlanga everyday. Isn't a huge distance but it still costs me around R600 a week in fuel in my little Nissan NP200 1.6i ). I'm looking to get some opinions from various people about a first bike and what I should be looking for. My dad bought a little Sym Crox 125cc scooter about a year ago now and I usually take it out on my days off work. I have commuted to work on it before but it really is not the safest bike to use for my commute (it battles to maintain 80km/h on the M4 freeway and if I use back roads then I have to dodge potholes because the wheels are so tiny). I keep telling myself that 125 is not enough simply based off of the experience I have had on the scooter but I have never been on an actual motorbike with manual gears before (I see lots of Honda CBR 125 bikes on Gumtree going relatively cheaply but I just don't know if it's enough).
A colleague of mine has a 600cc Kawasaki Ninja and said I must try it out to get a feel for something bigger than the scooter. After sitting on that (just trying to pull it off the stand let alone get it rolling) I feel it is a little much to start off with which is why I'm thinking more along the lines of a TW200 or a Sym XS 200 or a Honda CBR 250R. I really like the look of the KTM Duke 390 but they are just a little out of my budget (though I'm not in a huge rush to get something but sooner would be preferable). I'm looking to spend around 20k or so which is why I mentioned that Sym XS 200 (I understand that a lot of people might get a bee in their bonnet about cheap bikes - which I can agree with - however this little Sym Crox has around 2500kms on it now and hasn't given a days trouble). I can buy something like the XS 200 for around 18k brand new with a 2 year warranty but everyone I have spoken to about it says I must stick with big brands like Honda or Yamaha.
I would also be looking at something that could hold itself well on the freeway as I know some bikes don't handle wind very well (not like 160 or 200 but if I can do 100 comfortably I'll be fine).

I know there is no definitive answer to this but I'm just looking to get different opinions about the topic. What bike did you start with? Did you enjoy it? Am I wasting my time looking for bikes under 25k?

Thanks

 

[Spectaitor]

Try to keep in mind your initial goal here. Which is? Save the world by using less petrol? Save your wallet by spending less money?

you spend roughly R30k a year on petrol with your np200 and want to cut that down drastically. lets say you go down from R600 a week to R200, which means you'd spend around R10k a year on petrol. you've effectively saved R20k. BUT now you need to pay insurance too, brings weekly usage up by R100 (best guess), you just payed an extra R5k for the year.

Now, add price of bike - A cool 20k for a little guy. Now you factor in the fact that you can always resell the vehicle so thats fine but if you bring the purchase price up alot then you are in the negative BUT with an asset.

I'm just throwing in numbers here to maybe help you to make your choice

Also I just woke up so realize this is typed terribly.

 

[JollyJamma]

Your age?
Budget?
Riding experience in years and any emergency maneuvers you had to pull?
Cash or financed bike?
How dangerous is the M4 road that you travel?
Do you have medical aid?


If you’re young, dumb and full of cu...beer, don’t get a bike.

If you can’t afford the bike, don’t get a bike.

If the cost of finance exceeds that of your petrol bill used for the bakkie, don’t get a bike.

If you can find a new job that’s closer and pays the same, don’t get a bike.

If the road is dangerous and/or you don’t have medical aid, don’t get a bike.

Short answer: stick to a 250cc bike second Hans if you have to, but the scooter is fine for now and free so I’d fit better tyres to it and use that.

I road a scooter in Bali with my now ex on the back and it’s not the same as riding in South Africa but I still shat myself going into the center of Bali. It was dangerous as it was badly maintained and had bald tyres on it. I slid out being an idiot in a car park, no one was on the back. A decent set of tyres can transform most means of transport into a more versatile and safer object.

The shitty tyres they put on scooters makes them waaay more dangerous than they should be. The tyres are made out of what I can only assume is almost entirely carbon with a tiny bit of silicone. Really not grippy at all, designed for long distances between new tyres.

More silicone = grippy but shorter lifespan.

Make the scooter less shit and then come back to looking at a bike.

 

[raskad87]

I can highly recommend the Honda CBX250, it's an awesome commuter, cheap to run with sufficient power.

 

[TimBru14]

Try to keep in mind your initial goal here. Which is? Save the world by using less petrol? Save your wallet by spending less money?

you spend roughly R30k a year on petrol with your np200 and want to cut that down drastically. lets say you go down from R600 a week to R200, which means you'd spend around R10k a year on petrol. you've effectively saved R20k. BUT now you need to pay insurance too, brings weekly usage up by R100 (best guess), you just payed an extra R5k for the year.

Now, add price of bike - A cool 20k for a little guy. Now you factor in the fact that you can always resell the vehicle so thats fine but if you bring the purchase price up alot then you are in the negative BUT with an asset.

I'm just throwing in numbers here to maybe help you to make your choice

Also I just woke up so realize this is typed terribly.

Never thought about it that way. Thing is that I'm on parents medical aid and both my ballie and I agree that insuring a bike that's worth less than say 25/30k doesn't make sense. If I crash the bike, I crash the bike. Can get another one after saving for a few months (bearing in mind my parents were never keen on the idea so I guess that explains not insuring).

 

[TimBru14]

Your age?
Budget?
Riding experience in years and any emergency maneuvers you had to pull?
Cash or financed bike?
How dangerous is the M4 road that you travel?
Do you have medical aid?


If you’re young, dumb and full of cu...beer, don’t get a bike.

If you can’t afford the bike, don’t get a bike.

If the cost of finance exceeds that of your petrol bill used for the bakkie, don’t get a bike.

If you can find a new job that’s closer and pays the same, don’t get a bike.

If the road is dangerous and/or you don’t have medical aid, don’t get a bike.

Short answer: stick to a 250cc bike second Hans if you have to, but the scooter is fine for now and free so I’d fit better tyres to it and use that.

I road a scooter in Bali with my now ex on the back and it’s not the same as riding in South Africa but I still shat myself going into the center of Bali. It was dangerous as it was badly maintained and had bald tyres on it. I slid out being an idiot in a car park, no one was on the back. A decent set of tyres can transform most means of transport into a more versatile and safer object.

The shitty tyres they put on scooters makes them waaay more dangerous than they should be. The tyres are made out of what I can only assume is almost entirely carbon with a tiny bit of silicone. Really not grippy at all, designed for long distances between new tyres.

More silicone = grippy but shorter lifespan.

Make the scooter less shit and then come back to looking at a bike.

Budget: Around 22k (pretty much what I've been looking at on Gumtree).
Riding experience: Oooh...I would say maybe 9 months? I only taught myself to ride the scooter because my ballie left it in the garage for 3 or so months without using it. I would use it to commute but it isn't great for that sort of distance (around the block, 100% but not like 50 odd kms each way).
Emergency maneuvers: Maybe I'm just not the best rider but I kinda just hold on for dear life if I can't avoid something. Nothing comes to mind really. I probably have had to swerve out of the way of traffic at some point. I would just prefer something that can pull away from the cars and keep itself there. I'll pull away from Mk7 GTis at the lights but then they'll run me over 3 seconds later.
Cash or finance: Would definitely prefer cash (been putting money away into a 32 day call account for a while now to save up for a bike).
M4 danger: It's a 2 lane freeway (100km/h zone). I have taken the scooter out on it a few times just for fun but cars come flying past in excess of 140 and the bike just cannot handle anything over 80 without a substantial downhill (bearing in mind I'm only like 68kgs and don't carry anything on the bike other than myself and maybe a small lunch box). The last bad experience I had was taking an offramp towards Umhlanga and some doos in an NP200 (funnily enough) came flying past so close to me that I could reach in and throw his happy meal out the window.
Medical aid: I do have medical aid (as mentioned in an above comment). Parents have threatened to take me off the medical aid if I buy a bike but I highly doubt somehow.

I understand the costs of running a second vehicle and the risks involved but I feel like the money saved and the feeling of bikes themselves is worth it. I really love riding this stupid little scooter around even if the next day I take it out may very well be my last.

100% agree with you on the tyres. The Sym Crox has small stubbly tyres which offer very little grip and maneuverability. As I say, I don't use it for commuting at the moment but might take it to the beachfront or to a friends house (the furthest I've been is from my house in Glenwood to a friends house in Kloof using only back roads. Have not heard the end of it from friends or family members to this day).

 

[TimBru14]

I can highly recommend the Honda CBX250, it's an awesome commuter, cheap to run with sufficient power.

Where would I look for a decent one? I have only ever found 1 on Gumtree in the whole of KZN.

 

[Spectaitor]

Never thought about it that way. Thing is that I'm on parents medical aid and both my ballie and I agree that insuring a bike that's worth less than say 25/30k doesn't make sense. If I crash the bike, I crash the bike. Can get another one after saving for a few months (bearing in mind my parents were never keen on the idea so I guess that explains not insuring).

you could probably get a budget insurance for like R300 a month which isn't alot really.

 

[JollyJamma]

All signs are pointing to you using the petrol usage as an excuse to get a bike.


If petrol wasn’t a factor, would you still get a bike?

 

[TimBru14]

All signs are pointing to you using the petrol usage as an excuse to get a bike.


If petrol wasn’t a factor, would you still get a bike?

It's a viable excuse because wanting to kill myself isn't a good one 😁 Yes I would definitely get a bike if petrol wasn't a consideration. I've always wanted one and learning on the scooter was just somewhere to start. Just needed to give some form of context.

 

[Spectaitor]

Soooooo......what choices are you leaning towards? I'm looking at getting a bike with my end of year bonus so been looking up a ton into it, keen to hear what you think so far?

 

[TimBru14]

I've seen a lot of my friends buying the Sym XS200 (Blaze) brand new and loving them (they're around R18k new). It's super tempting but a part of me wants to go big name brand like Yamaha or Honda (I've seen a few Honda VFR 400cc bikes for around 20k and one or 2 CBR250Rs for like 22k). Just sounds expensive to me for a second hand bike when I can get something brand new out the box for 18k and if anything goes wrong for the next 2 years I just take it back.

 

[TimBru14]

Update: We sold the Sym Crox 125 scooter about 3 weeks ago now and my ballie bought a 2019 Honda XR 150 LEK second hand (only had 127kms on it at the time). Awesome bike to learn gears on, been super reliable. Starts first time every time. 150cc is a little slow for commuting but it is definitely possible. Would've preferred a Suzuki GSX-F 150 but the at least this can jump pavements and go off road.

 

[Rakgadi]

Necropost... @TimBru14 did you end up buying a suitable bike for commuting and how's your experience so far?

 

[TimBru14]

Necropost... @TimBru14 did you end up buying a suitable bike for commuting and how's your experience so far?

Genuinely forgot I had this thread open XD
Still have the XR 150 but only really use it on weekends when I'm bored and haven't commuted to work with it. Absolutely love ripping that bike around but that being said, I have had a good 6 or 7 instances in the past 2 weeks where I genuinely thought I was going to die because other road users weren't looking out for a motorcycle.
Been tempted to commute to work with the XR but I ended up buying a new-ish Honda Jazz at the end of last year and so that has been my daily (plus having A/C in Durban in January/February is an actual godsend).

If you live within 10kms of your work then I'd say go find yourself a low mileage Honda, Suzuki or Yamaha that's 150 to 250cc and use that to commute with (150cc isn't slow but you start to feel a little uneasy when you're wringing the bike's neck trying to maintain 100km/h on the freeway - Wouldn't mind something in the 250 to 400 range myself). The Sym bikes are okay as beginner bikes but the build quality is just not quite up to snuff. I've had nothing but good experiences with the XR so far and that just ticked over to 3000kms today.

 

[Exmoz]

Can comfortably suggest a Yamaha YBR125cc
Did 45000km on mine in matric and was the most comfortable ride ever!

 

[AndyPants]

...I have had a good 6 or 7 instances in the past 2 weeks where I genuinely thought I was going to die because other road users weren't looking out for a motorcycle.

This is worrying - I commute on a bike between Jhb and Centurion and I honestly have two instances in the past year where I felt things got a bit hairy.
Now I know Durban and Gauteng traffic is not a like for like comparison but still - neither is small 5 car town.


The way you phrased this is what gets my red lights flashing.

On a bike, I always assume that I'm invisible - I cannot depend on other road users to look out for me.
It's the exact same argument with "loud pipes saves lives" or "think bike" - it's bull, the onus is not on the other road users to keep me safe - that responsibility is on me.
The majority of road users are stupid and at best half asleep.

Riding a bike in traffic is a mentally taxing experience but like sport or meditation, it's a great way to switch off from your other worries (work or family), and completely focus on a task that is literally a life or death situation. Being absolutely 100% present in the moment is the magic of riding a bike. I get to work feeling fresh and relaxed (sometimes even wet)

Ride safe, be safe.

 

[Spectaitor]

Look up defensive riding on a motorcycle. Once I understood it my riding got both better and I felt safer because I held more control.

 

[Scrooloose]

If you're buying a bike to save costs, I've got news for you.

Yes, you use less fuel. However bikes require services far more frequently than cars, unless it's like a BMW Boxer motor which has the same service interval as most cars.

The tyres are fuckoff expensive and don't usually last very long, chain and sprockets are a thing that require chain lube every 500km and replacement every 15,000km or so.

So to minimize the impact, you would get a Boxer engine, shaft drive bike. That's R100k purchase price second-hand. Shaft drive bikes are always big engined, so fuel economy isn't great and the bike is heavy. Dual compound tyres help, and some of them have amazing durability. I ride on Michelin Pilot Road, on my ER6-n I've done 30,000km on the set which is nearly impossible for me to believe, but here we are. On the Triumph, I run Dunlop RoadMax. I have done 2,000km on them so far, and they seem to really be holding up exceptionally well.

You could do the scooter thing, they are belt driven and those belts last really long. But now you're back to the slow business. Unless it's a Vespa, which is an expensive purchase again.

Then, you need riding gear. There is no such thing as "good enough for...". Falling is falling, A crash at 40km/h hurts the same regardless if you're on a Harley, a Superbike, a Hyperbike, Off-road or a Scooter. Buy the best gear you can afford, never cut corners. Gear also means a lot of sweating, especially in that ridiculously hot city of yours. I rode there in full kit during February 2018 and I thought I was going to melt in my jacket.

I ride bike because I like riding bike. It saves me time, but not really so much money.

You could perhaps trade your NP200 in on a Fiat 500 Dolcevita. It sips 3.8L per 100km and is the most fuel efficient car in the country. They look awesome too.

Final thoughts: If I had to start over and get a 2-wheeled something for commuting, I would buy a Suzuki Burgman 400. 6L per 100km doesn't exactly spark joy, but the thing is so damned practical that it should almost be a sin. It pulls like a motherfucker too.

 

[TimBru14]

This is worrying - I commute on a bike between Jhb and Centurion and I honestly have two instances in the past year where I felt things got a bit hairy.
Now I know Durban and Gauteng traffic is not a like for like comparison but still - neither is small 5 car town.


The way you phrased this is what gets my red lights flashing.

On a bike, I always assume that I'm invisible - I cannot depend on other road users to look out for me.
It's the exact same argument with "loud pipes saves lives" or "think bike" - it's bull, the onus is not on the other road users to keep me safe - that responsibility is on me.
The majority of road users are stupid and at best half asleep.

Riding a bike in traffic is a mentally taxing experience but like sport or meditation, it's a great way to switch off from your other worries (work or family), and completely focus on a task that is literally a life or death situation. Being absolutely 100% present in the moment is the magic of riding a bike. I get to work feeling fresh and relaxed (sometimes even wet)

Ride safe, be safe.

It's mostly town driving that scares me. Granted my XR150 can't really do freeway speeds but it'll manage around 80/90 km/h driving along the M4. I've just seen too many videos of delivery guys on bikes or scooters getting taken out by taxis or other road users.
While I agree with you that the onus is on the rider to keep him/herself and his/hers bike safe on the road, it doesn't help that other road users flat out don't care about you or your bike.

The best example I can give of this was when I had driven up to JHB for the rAge expo a few years back. I forget exactly what area we were in but I stopped at a robot and saw 3 guys on motorbikes waiting for the lights to change diagonally opposite me. The light turned green for them and they just sat there for maybe 10 to 15 seconds. I thought maybe they had stalled or something but then literally out of nowhere, a taxi blasted past me doing maybe 80/100 and flew right through the intersection. The bikers just waited for the taxi to go through and then proceeded as if nothing had happened. That shit blew my mind. What if I was one of those bikers and I had decided to gun it at the light and that taxi just decided, "Fuck it, I'm late."?

You could be the best rider in human history but it still won't stop some clown from turning you into a human pancake or a cloud of red mist. I hate to agree with it but it is unfortunately the reality here.

If you're buying a bike to save costs, I've got news for you.

Yes, you use less fuel. However bikes require services far more frequently than cars, unless it's like a BMW Boxer motor which has the same service interval as most cars.

The tyres are fuckoff expensive and don't usually last very long, chain and sprockets are a thing that require chain lube every 500km and replacement every 15,000km or so.

So to minimize the impact, you would get a Boxer engine, shaft drive bike. That's R100k purchase price. Shaft drive bikes are always big engined, so fuel economy isn't great and the bike is heavy. Dual compound tyres help, and some of them have amazing durability. I ride on Michelin Pilot Road, on my ER6-n I've done 30,000km on the set which is nearly impossible for me to believe, but here we are. On the Triumph, I run Dunlop RoadMax. I have done 2,000km on them so far, and they seem to really be holding up exceptionally well.

You could do the scooter thing, they are belt driven and those belts last really long. But now you're back to the slow business. Unless it's a Vespa, which is an expensive purchase again.

Then, you need riding gear. There is no such thing as "good enough for...". Falling is falling, A crash at 40km/h hurts the same regardless if you're on a Harley, a Superbike, a Hyperbike, Off-road or a Scooter. Buy the best gear you can afford, never cut corners. Gear also means a lot of sweating, especially in that ridiculously hot city of yours. I rode there in full kit during February 2018 and I thought I was going to melt in my jacket.

I ride bike because I like riding bike. It saves me time, but not really so much money.

You could perhaps trade your NP200 in on a Fiat 500 Dolcevita. It sips 3.8L per 100km and is the most fuel efficient car in the country. They look awesome too.

Final thoughts: If I had to start over and get a 2-wheeled something for commuting, I would buy a Suzuki Burgman 400. 6L per 100km doesn't exactly spark joy, but the thing is so damned practical that it should almost be a sin. It pulls like a motherfucker too.

Very valid points. I don't think I had factored maintenance into the equation when I initially opened this thread. Granted this was also when petrol wasn't R20 a litre Maintenance on the XR hasn't been outlandish but that being said, it has only done about 2800 kilometres since we bought it so it makes sense.

I'm getting anxiety just thinking of wearing full biker gear at this time of the year I've only ever come off the XR once since we bought it and the bike was barely moving when I did fall off (bumped it into 2nd, bike stalled, didn't put leg out in time to catch myself from falling). I really should buy some proper gear but I only really ride the bike on weekends or off days (maybe 2 or 3 times per month). Guess I just need to fall off once wearing shorts and a T-shirt to make the switch 🙈

 

[Spectaitor]

I really should buy some proper gear but I only really ride the bike on weekends or off days (maybe 2 or 3 times per month). Guess I just need to fall off once wearing shorts and a T-shirt to make the switch 🙈

What does the day of the week have to do with wearing gear? Accidents happen everyday 😵

 

[TimBru14]

What does the day of the week have to do with wearing gear? Accidents happen everyday 😵

I meant the amount of times I ride monthly - should've rephrased. If I buy something bigger to commute with in future then I'll spend all the money on the relevant kit - decent riding kit can get seriously expensive.

 

[AndyPants]

What does the day of the week have to do with wearing gear? Accidents happen everyday 😵

I'll add to this - you need to ride more to be safe.
Riding infrequently does not equal less chance of being involved in an accident, on the contrary - If you're not riding in traffic twice a week, you will be unfamiliar with the situation and the nuances of reading traffic.
You'll be surprised by people doing stupid things instead of anticipating those things happening. (case and point, your own example of the dudes waiting at the light)

Get the gear - tar, cars and lamp posts do not care what the temperature is or how often you ride.

 

[Exmoz]

Riding a bike in traffic is a mentally taxing experience but like sport or meditation, it's a great way to switch off from your other worries (work or family), and completely focus on a task that is literally a life or death situation.

Making me miss the R6 xD

 

[Scarlet Scarab]

Check out these guys on YT. DanDanTheFireman especially helped me keep my head in the game.

https://www.youtube.com/c/DanDanTheFireman/

https://www.youtube.com/c/yammienoob/

 

[rinners]

Bike Hub - Classifieds, Forums, Race Calendar, Cycling News, Gear Reviews

Buy and sell bikes, parts and accessories. Buying a new or used bicycle? Browse thousands of bikes, parts and accessories in our trusted cycling marketplace.

bikehub.co.za

 

[Andrew_Smith]

Bike Hub - Classifieds, Forums, Race Calendar, Cycling News, Gear Reviews

Buy and sell bikes, parts and accessories. Buying a new or used bicycle? Browse thousands of bikes, parts and accessories in our trusted cycling marketplace.

bikehub.co.za

Wild Dog Adventure Riding

Wild Dog Adventure Riding motorcycle touring forum for cycle discussions and travel/touring for South Africa and Africa. Forums for all models of motorcycles and travel topics.

www.wilddog.za.net

*Fixed it for you

 

[rinners]

Wild Dog Adventure Riding

Wild Dog Adventure Riding motorcycle touring forum for cycle discussions and travel/touring for South Africa and Africa. Forums for all models of motorcycles and travel topics.

www.wilddog.za.net

*Fixed it for you

Still has all the insurance, service and upfront costs as stated by everyone above. Add in gym contract and it's really more than R600/w saving with the old 2 series manual types.

 

[Andrew_Smith]

Check out these guys on YT. DanDanTheFireman especially helped me keep my head in the game.

https://www.youtube.com/c/DanDanTheFireman/

https://www.youtube.com/c/yammienoob/

If I may add to the list:

https://www.youtube.com/c/MotoJitsu