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Bad Deal

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AndriesVenter

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Deal Thread URL: [Sale] - 9 x Biostar TB 250 + Intel CPUs | Combo (multi-item) sales & full systems
Seller:
@JanvN
Buyer: @AndriesVenter
Description of Bad Deal: Bought 9 mining boards
Boards tested good on first test
Backplates was not provided for the motherboards and it was not indicated in the addcorrosion
When i wanted to apply new thermal paste on the first boards i noticed the it has significant corrosion
Checked the rest of the boards and they all looked the same and worse
The seller did not indicate it on his add
He indicated that he didn't know this which i believe

The seller gave me 2 options full refund or partial refund to circumvent the damage, i took the partial refund ( motherboard and half)
Day later as i am building the motherboards in boxes 2 motherboard failed on me, asked the Seller that i will rather opt for full refund

Because this is going to happen with the rest of the motherboards with time (can not resell this motherboards with this known)
He said he will refund me just for boards working which leave me with a lost of R1200
Don't think its fair
He gave me discount on the deal, but this doesn't change the fact that this motherboards was sold significantly corroded and i personally wont sell boards in this condition to any other Carby

corrosion
 

JanvN

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@Toxxyc

Details of the deal are as follows:
  1. Add (link) was posted for 9 combos at R9k. Motherboards were old, and listed without any packaging or warranty (explicitly). However, I personally tested the motherboards and they seemed to work well without any issues - hence described as good working condition. My testing included placing the combos in a mining rig, connecting an SSD + PSU + GPU and checking if the mobos posted and loaded windows. The boards were used for mining (as indicated in the add), and visually, I didn't see any issues with the board
  2. Andries contacted me via carb, and offered me R600 a combo. I accepted his offer for 9 x R600 (R5400). The discussion progressed to WhatsApp
  3. On 4 Jan 2020, buyer and I engaged. I confirmed acceptance of his offer, shared courier collection address and banking details. The buyer asked if I tested all of the boards and if they were all working to which I responded that:
    1. I tested all the motherboards myself and that all of them posted without any issues
    2. I informed the buyer that I will give him a personal 24 hour warranty on the motherboard to test all of them upon arrival, and stated that I would refund him if he had any issues
    3. Deal was agreed based on these principles - and the buyer arranged his own courier and made payment
  4. I packaged all 9 motherboards in a big brown box, and made sure that they were securely packaged, making ample use of packaging paper and bubble wrap between the box and motherboards, and between each motherboard.
  5. TCG (arranged by the buyer) collected the box from me on Wed 6 Jan using tracking number "TCG26712288" which can be tracked on the website. Delivery of the boards occurred on Friday 8 Jan at 10.49am, signed for by the buyer. At this point in time my personal 24 hour warranty would have taken affect.
  6. On Sunday 10 Jan I receive a WhatsApp message from the buyer where he states that he tested all of the boards and that all of them are working. The buyer then asked that he couldn't find backplates in the box to which I responded that I didn't have backplates for the mobos, but that I would dig around to see if I have any laying around. To be fair, I would have assumed that a no packaging mining motherboard would automatically mean no backplate, but I didn't specify this explicitly, and the buyer also didn't explicitly ask this.
  7. On Monday 11 Jan, the buyer contacted me stating that he would have to order backplates from a 3D printing company which would cost him R30 each. I jokingly said that he could use the major discount he got on the combos to pay for those (discount of R400 per combo was given).
  8. Further, on Monday 11 Jan, the buyer sent me photos of corrosion related issues on the CPU part of the mobo, and said he was doing so just as a FYI "net om my in te lig". He also stated that I didn't indicate such on the adds. I responded to the buyer informing him that I didn't see these, and that I wouldn't knowingly sell any components with issues unless indicated as such. At this point in time (well beyond the original 24 hour personal warranty) I felt obliged to make good on the deal. I communicated to the buyer that if he was unhappy with the boards that I want to make right on the deal, and I offered him two options:
    1. He could either take a full refund on everything and ship it back to me; or
    2. He can keep the combos and we can find a common ground for a partial refund
    3. I made it abundantly clear that there was no mal-intent on my behalf, and offered the buyer options which would not see him unhappy or out of pocket at all
  9. Further to this, still on Mon 11 Jan, the buyer opted for a partial refund option, citing that we will be happy with a partial refund so he can be in a position to replace 1 or 2 boards in the event that a client brings them back. I once again apologised for the situation, and the buyer and myself negotiated a refund amount equivalent to the purchase price of 1.5 combos - i.e. 1.5 x R600 = R900. I asked for banking details and made the refund immediately, no questions asked. This would bring his total investment to R4500 (out of the asked R9000) for 9 full working combos - fully working as confirmed by him as per point 6.
  10. This morning, 12 Jan, the buyer messaged me and told me that he started building the combos into PC cases, but two of the mobos were giving him issues. The one was power on/off, and the other motherboard was not powering on. The buyer pretty much demanded that I give him a full refund. I responded to this request informing the buyer how unhappy I was with his request given all of the points raised above. Me trying to be very generous, extended an olive branch to the buyer asking him to ship the boards back to me so I could assess it, promising him that I would fully refund him for the working 7 boards, but that I can't refund him for the boards which are now non-working - especially after:
    1. I offered a personal 24 hour warranty; and
    2. Days after the warranty lapsed the buyer confirmed all the boards were working fine; and
    3. After I offered the buyer a full or partial refund, where the buyer opted for a partial refund and to keep the combos;
  11. The buyer and I had a disagreement on point 10, to which he responded "I will take a full refund, and take it further on carb", citing that I have been dodgy about it, and that the damage is my fault. Naturally, our conversation was in Afrikaans, so I translated the above - just as a FYI.

@Toxxyc here is where I stand:
  1. There was no mal-intent or dodginess from my side. The boards were tested and was in good working condition when they left my place. In all honesty, I was testing the boards in the evening, and I didn't notice any corrosion. I also didn't remove the CPUs from the motherboards.
  2. A personal 24 hour warranty was offered with a full refund if there were any issues. Days after this the seller messaged me to say that everything is good.
  3. When the buyer first reported corrosion issues, I immediately offered him a full or partial refund. At this point in time the buyer (having tested and inspected all of the boards) opted to keep the combos and take a partial refund, before he started fiddling with them. The partial refund was made immediately without hesitation. If the boards were not up to expectation, or were in a non-working/bad condition, I would have expected the buyer to opt for a full refund and to ship the combos back to me no questions asked. However, he didn't do this. It was considered a better deal taking a partial refund and keeping all 9 working combos for whatever reason
  4. At this point in time, given the above, and given that he wants to drag my name through the mud I have made a decision not to refund the buyer a single buck. I will stand by this, even more so as my offer to refund the 7 working boards and assess the other 2 was outright rejected this morning. This was a REALLY generous offer on my behalf, but this has been, and shall remain withdrawn.
Just one final note - I am running around like a mad man today - just in case I am not responsive on this thead for a couple of hours
 

AndriesVenter

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@Toxxyc

If you sell somebody corroded motheboards you setting them up for failure

I looked at the heatsinks now, and they all have clear visible corrosion on them
Begs the question if the seller did his due diligence checking these motherboards thoroughly ?
The only reason why i spotted the corrosion was that one of the heatsinks was loose, I took it out to reset it properly.
And that begs the question how thoroughly did he do his test with a loose heatsink and more suspiciously how come it was loose in the first place.

You can not complain about discount if you have given it, and use it to circumvent backplates cost that you have failed to mention or supply.
It is another cost the buyer must incur unplanned.

The seller accuse me of fiddling, connecting the motherboard to a tested psu, ram and hdd. In that regard then i must have been fiddling for the last 20 years and as a certified technician the last 10. Then all IT technicians must be fiddlers in a negative way par the seller.

The bullying tactic of the seller if i take this further on Carbomite he withdraw any refund shows you what type of seller he is.

I don't have the attention of dragging his name through the mud, your bad product is doing it for you.

Facts
If i return the products i incur a loss of R1400 at least outright ( 2boards and the transport fee)
These boards have been failing as soon as you started straining them.
The corrosion is significant, the cpu plates are badly rusted and there is visible corrosion on caps
The Seller is not going to do refund

@Toxxyc I don't think there is anything be done here
I would like you to clear my positive feedback that i can replace it with a negative rating
 

JanvN

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I will be very clear about this, and be completely unapologetic about this. In the event that my testing was not up to your "expert" standard I sincerely apologise for that. I directly offered a 24hour personal warranty upon arrival to inspect the boards in which I offered a FULL refund should you not be happy with anything.

If my math is correct - +- 48 hours after the personal warranty lapsed you confirmed that you were happy that everything was working. At this point in time, if years of experience (as stated) did not pick the issues, I would have also not picked up the issues. Nonetheless, any ignorance was at this stage in time not excusable on my behalf.

Another 24 hours later when you reported corrosion-related issues on the boards what was my immediate reaction to you? Well, if you recall, my immediate response to you was an apologetic one as I was not aware of the issues. At this point in time, I offered you a COMPLETE and FULL refund no questions asked (and I have the Whatsapp conversation to prove this if it is required). At this point in time you had the boards for a couple of days already, and with all the years of experience that you have (that I admittedly don't) a reasonable person would have known that the boards might be problematic down the line. However, instead of taking my apology and NO QUESTIONS ASKED FULL REFUND, you instead decided to for the partial refund on the boards with the intent to keep them. Why was that the case? I mean I apologised sincerely for not having detected the issues and offered to refund you in full? Why not just take the offer and rid yourself of these boards that were "rubbish"?

The bottom line is this:
  • Did I power on the boards as is to check that I could boot into Windows - yes
  • Was this communicated to you - yes
  • Did I offer you a personal warranty on the boards in the event that there might be issues which I didn't have to do from the start - yes
  • Did you confirm the boards to be fully working after the personal warranty lapsed - yes
  • Were there issues with the boards that I wasn't aware of - yes
  • Did I immediately respond to you offering my sincere apology and offering a full refund on the boards at this point in time with you knowing what the issues were on the boards - yes
  • Did you accept my apology, and decided to opt to keep the boards and take a partial refund - yes
  • Did I assume that by specifying on my add that the boards were old, mined, and no packaging that one would infer no backplates were available - yes
  • Did you at any one point throughout the sale EVER ask me if backplates, sata cables or anything else was included? - no
  • Did I at any one point indicate or mention that the sale included anything other than used mining motherboards and CPUs? - no
  • Do I take kindly to being bullied, or being called a bully? - no
  • Did I try and resolve the issue amicably post you opting not for a full refund after you knew what the issues with the boards are? - yes
  • After all of this, and before you opened a bad deal thread, did I make you a reasonable offer (yet again) to return all the mobos to me? - yes
  • Did that offer at any one point indicate that you would be liable for shipping back to me? - no
  • After all of this, did I offer you a full refund on the 7 working ones and tell you that I would like to assess the other 2 which were seemingly not working any more? - yes

My parting R5 here is as follows:
At no point in time did I intend to mislead you, or sell you defective products. I have been on carb for years now, and although that might not mean much, I have always prided myself on being a decent guy. At the point where you reported issues, I apologised and offered you an immediate refund if you were not happy - once again no questions asked. If I was misleading you from the start, or wanted to be dodgy I could have very honestly told you to go take a hike. You instead opted to take advantage of the situation and me, and later on decided to pull a 180 again.

I rightly and honestly refused your "my way or the highway" approach to wanting to bully me. I don't get bullied, and neither do I bully.

@Toxxyc (and to my fellow carb members):
I believe in what carb is, and what carb stands for. The community is what it is all about, and the conduct on which fellow carbonite members conduct themselves. As much as I have made my stance clear on being taken advantage of, and not willing to stand for it, ultimately, I will leave it to you to make the ruling. I am grown up enough to respect your ruling on this, even if it doesn't go my way. That is what makes carb great!
 

Ageless_ZA

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@AndriesVenter His positive rating will remain. He gave you all the options to get a full refund and back out but you chose to continue.
"to build and resell pc's" to make a profit off the cheap nature of the parts you bought. Lets not forget the delidded CPU you sold not so long ago and told the buyer you had no knowledge of the delid, and refused a refund when the CPU clearly had red silicone around the IHS.

@JanvN I believe you were more than amicable in this. Carbonite will not be applying any administrative measures on yourself.

Andriesventer can now sit with his rusty parts.

The End.
 
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