Adventure/Off-Road/Dual Purpose - What to get?

[PandaAttack1]

Howsit gents,

Thought I might open some discussion here.

I am planning on buying a adv style bike sometime this year.

I want to do touring mainly (Gauteng to PE/Lesotho/Bots/Mozam), but I also want offroad capability. These trips will probably require me to ride along camping equipment from time to time. I also love enduro, so I expect this machine to do quite a bit dirt roads and some rougher terrain. Think Sani pass type stuff, but more.

We plan on doing an 'around the world' trip in a few years time, but I doubt I will be taking the bike I buy now. We will probably buy appropriate bikes (gs 1200) before the trip and sell when we get back.

My number one spot at the moment is the Africa Twin (CRF1000L). For the money, they seem to offer the most. Their offroad ability and long term reliability and serviceability adds a lot of value.

Between 180k-200k new seems like a real good place to be in this market.

The new F850GS also seems to be a highly recommended candidate. Can be had for around R220k. ~20% more than the Honda. Hmmm.

Unfortunately the T700 does not have the legs to make touring comfortable.

Thoughts, ideas, recommendations?

 

[D3TTOL]

Howsit gents,

Thought I might open some discussion here.

I am planning on buying a adv style bike sometime this year.

I want to do touring mainly (Gauteng to PE/Lesotho/Bots/Mozam), but I also want offroad capability. These trips will probably require me to ride along camping equipment from time to time. I also love enduro, so I expect this machine to do quite a bit dirt roads and some rougher terrain. Think Sani pass type stuff, but more.

We plan on doing an 'around the world' trip in a few years time, but I doubt I will be taking the bike I buy now. We will probably buy appropriate bikes (gs 1200) before the trip and sell when we get back.

My number one spot at the moment is the Africa Twin (CRF1000L). For the money, they seem to offer the most. Their offroad ability and long term reliability and serviceability adds a lot of value.

Between 180k-200k new seems like a real good place to be in this market.

The new F850GS also seems to be a highly recommended candidate. Can be had for around R220k. ~20% more than the Honda. Hmmm.

Unfortunately the T700 does not have the legs to make touring comfortable.

Thoughts, ideas, recommendations?

The big bmws are popular for a reason.

Not a fan of the Honda Africa Twin because well its such an expensive bike for poofy power.
suzuki's DL is quite a bit cheaper but I doubt it can do the same offroad stuff that a GS or SuperTen can do.

Any Adventure bike is going to feel potato slow now that you have a superbike

Or get a Super Adventure R from Katoom

 

[Sub-lime]

T7. That is all.

Plenty have done world trips on 690 KTM and the T7 is far better so it will do it otherwise the Tiger 900 is unbelievable! Amazing balance, quality build, great triple engine and it has a list of amazing electronics that actually work..cough cough KTM.

 

[Sub-lime]

The Tiger 900 Ralley Pro was my first choice but because I wanted a closer gap to a plastic I took the T7. But after riding literally everything I could get my hands on the Tiger stood out the most. The 790 is probably more capable offroad than the 900 depending on your skillset but I always have this feeling on the 790 that I'm having to check that things are ok..

Like that highschool modified golf you had as a teen, you loved it but constantly worried something was going to bust out..which is inevitable.

 

[ovisser1]

Howsit gents,

Thought I might open some discussion here.

I am planning on buying a adv style bike sometime this year.

I want to do touring mainly (Gauteng to PE/Lesotho/Bots/Mozam), but I also want offroad capability. These trips will probably require me to ride along camping equipment from time to time. I also love enduro, so I expect this machine to do quite a bit dirt roads and some rougher terrain. Think Sani pass type stuff, but more.

We plan on doing an 'around the world' trip in a few years time, but I doubt I will be taking the bike I buy now. We will probably buy appropriate bikes (gs 1200) before the trip and sell when we get back.

My number one spot at the moment is the Africa Twin (CRF1000L). For the money, they seem to offer the most. Their offroad ability and long term reliability and serviceability adds a lot of value.

Between 180k-200k new seems like a real good place to be in this market.

The new F850GS also seems to be a highly recommended candidate. Can be had for around R220k. ~20% more than the Honda. Hmmm.

Unfortunately the T700 does not have the legs to make touring comfortable.

Thoughts, ideas, recommendations?

 

[Cyst]

So happy you posted this!

I was also looking at the Africa Twin, mainly for the reliability and amount of service centers.
The T700 looks like it could also be awesome, especially if you're going to do more offroad than on.

If you're going for an adventure bike, does the power really make that much of a difference? I'm pretty sure most of the 800cc and up bikes make more power than you'd need if you're adventuring.

 

[Sub-lime]

So happy you posted this!

I was also looking at the Africa Twin, mainly for the reliability and amount of service centers.
The T700 looks like it could also be awesome, especially if you're going to do more offroad than on.

If you're going for an adventure bike, does the power really make that much of a difference? I'm pretty sure most of the 800cc and up bikes make more power than you'd need if you're adventuring.

Power is relative, HP is not needed for adv but torque is. low grunt for more technical riding, pillion and lots of luggage.
Most bikes in the mid cc are perfectly fine.

The AT is a great bike with a good heritage but i find the service centers are not great and they are always out of parts, however that might not be the case for the AT.

Just ride them all

 

[AndyPants]

If you're going for an adventure bike, does the power really make that much of a difference? I'm pretty sure most of the 800cc and up bikes make more power than you'd need if you're adventuring.

That's been my experience - if you really want the power then only the 1200/1250 or the 1290 is going to satisfy - as far as going on dirt - anything 800ish and up is gonna be a fun time. I've been riding 800 BMWs for the past 7 years and also did a 11 day hard offroad (for these size bikes) trip on an Africa Twin and the AT is a phenomenal bike.

Things to consider is dealership support (I'm looking at you Triumph) and reliability - the more of these bikes are on the road, the easier you'll get parts and accessories for them - but go and ride every single one of the bikes you're interested in - decide for yourself it it feels like it will be a good tourer - and if a dealership does not have a demo bike you can test ride I see that as a huge red flag (yes Honda 😑)

 

[AndyPants]

Power is relative, HP is not needed for adv but torque is. low grunt for more technical riding, pillion and lots of luggage.
Most bikes in the mid cc are perfectly fine.

The AT is a great bike with a good heritage but i find the service centers are not great and they are always out of parts, however that might not be the case for the AT.

Just ride them all

Unfortunately I'm way too involved with the inner workings of Honda SA and there's basically 1 good Honda dealership in the country - Honda Tygerberg.
Me being in Gauteng that's the main reason I didn't trade my BMW in for an AT

 

[Cyst]

I guess if you like adventures, just make a trip of it every time you have to get it to that dealership, hah.

 

[Spectaitor]

Howsit gents,

Unfortunately the T700 does not have the legs to make touring comfortable.

Explain?
Have what have you ridden so far?

 

[Spectaitor]

Also would like to add that your post heading "Adventure/Off-Road/Dual Purpose" refer to different bikes.
You want to tour, get a tourer.
You want to Adv, get an Adv bike.
You want to Off-road, get a plastic.
You want to dual sport/purpose, there are ALOT of bikes that can do that in different ways.

 

[PandaAttack1]

Explain?
Have what have you ridden so far?

A lot. xD

1200GS, 1250GS, 800GS, Triumph 800, Africa Twin (2016 1000), Yamaha SuperTeneree, KTM 1190 and 1050..... etc etc.

I just want to make sure I am not missing anything, such as Sublime recommending to take a spin on the new Triumph 900. I'm also hoping to get a test ride on the 'new' 850 gs as well.

With regards to my T700 statement, when touring I am going to be cruising around 160-170 km/h mark. I don't want the bike to be laboured while doing that. A few of the okes who own the 700s said that the motors are much happier around 130 than 160. I'll see for myself when I get to ride one.

There's absolutely no rush with this purchase.

 

[PandaAttack1]

Also would like to add that your post heading "Adventure/Off-Road/Dual Purpose" refer to different bikes.
You want to tour, get a tourer.
You want to Adv, get an Adv bike.
You want to Off-road, get a plastic.
You want to dual sport/purpose, there are ALOT of bikes that can do that in different ways.

Okay, I want a bike that can do all of the above. I know my use case, I'm looking for a bike to fit into that use case.

I want to tour to Lesotho, and then offroad a mountain pass. Then camp for the night. Do another mountain pass in the morning and then head back to my comfy apartment in Pretoria. Rinse the bike, and commute to work on Monday.

 

[Sub-lime]

Things to consider is dealership support (I'm looking at you Triumph) and reliability

What issues have you had?

I've never had better service at Triumph; I've owned my fair share of bikes and only Harley and Triumph were exceptional. I can't speak for all the Triumph's (especially cruisers) but the 675/765 motor is brilliant. The fact they chose to use the 765 motor in Moto2 we can confidently say that it meets the mark. In general the 3 Cyl motors across the line are good motors.

For the rest of the components, mostly Ohlins, Showa and Brembo are all top quality products.

 

[Sub-lime]

Okay, I want a bike that can do all of the above. I know my use case, I'm looking for a bike to fit into that use case.

I want to tour to Lesotho, and then offroad a mountain pass. Then camp for the night. Do another mountain pass in the morning and then head back to my comfy apartment in Pretoria. Rinse the bike, and commute to work on Monday.

T900 RP, 890 R, AT (NON DCT). In order from what you wanted. If you wanted this reordered for reliability swop AT and 890R

 

[PandaAttack1]

What issues have you had?

I've never had better service at Triumph; I've owned my fair share of bikes and only Harley and Triumph were exceptional. I can't speak for all the Triumph's (especially cruisers) but the 675/765 motor is brilliant. The fact they chose to use the 765 motor in Moto2 we can confidently say that it meets the mark. In general the 3 Cyl motors across the line are good motors.

For the rest of the components, mostly Ohlins, Showa and Brembo are all top quality products.

I spend quite a bit of time this weekend watching reviews and reading owner stories on the 900 Rally Pro. Seems to be quite the bike my dude. Shot for the recommendations.

It has all the good bits from other manufactures, mashed into one bike, powered by the triple. It also looks the part. Will be giving them a call soon to see what it would set me back with the luggage racks. I'm a soft pannier type of guy, so will luckily only need the racks. And of course engine/tank protection.

 

[Sub-lime]

Manual Lucchese review on the T900 RP -

(Dakar rider)

 

[Sub-lime]

I spend quite a bit of time this weekend watching reviews and reading owner stories on the 900 Rally Pro. Seems to be quite the bike my dude. Shot for the recommendations.

It has all the good bits from other manufactures, mashed into one bike, powered by the triple. It also looks the part. Will be giving them a call soon to see what it would set me back with the luggage racks. I'm a soft pannier type of guy, so will luckily only need the racks. And of course engine/tank protection.

Speak to Matt. he is a great lad.

 

[AndyPants]

What issues have you had?

Just that Triumph SA's ownership has changed 4 times in the past 6 years. For two of those years they had no official representation in SA - makes it worrying to buy into that stable.

 

[Sub-lime]

Just that Triumph SA's ownership has changed 4 times in the past 6 years. For two of those years they had no official representation in SA - makes it worrying to buy into that stable.

Correct, however the brand itself has over 700 dealer worldwide though, they will expand here as more people buy into them. I highly doubt that they will disappear anytime soon. They have also catered more for our market now and with the new Tiger, Speed Triple (1290 alternative) Trident 660 coming in i think that will fill more gaps. Triumphs in general are pricey because of their part list so adding a more budget friendly bike will definitely help in their growth.

Being that, it can fall apart like any other brand. I do feel that the KTM craze is slowing down and the spend is branching out to other brands as well. No diss at KTM, they are incredible, they brought out what the people wanted and shifted the market to ADV massivly but other brands have now started offering alternatives which is awesome for all.

 

[Sub-lime]

Just that Triumph SA's ownership has changed 4 times in the past 6 years. For two of those years they had no official representation in SA - makes it worrying to buy into that stable.

I do agree though that when Triumph UK did pull out due to KMSA's daft decision it left the market wrecked but it was for a good cause. Triumph wanted their own dealerships and not be controlled by KMSA. Unlike KMSA, Triumph is a lifestyle brand (Bikes, clothing, acc) so it only made sense they wanted to be their own store. This is no fault in Triumph for wanting to offer SA more, KMSA did not have the money or want to offer the expansion f the Triumph brand.

 

[Spectaitor]

I think that out of your options, the T900 is quite the bike.
A lot of guys gave Triumph shit for their bikes having literally no grunt down low (I've even ridden with the 800) and that 3 Cyl was not the best choice to make an ADV bike, they were far better for touring.
That said, what they did with the new 900 motor is akin to magic. It now does the job it's advertised for and has all the good bits, as said before, to make it a real - imho - premium bike.

The Honda AT is far more dual sport than top speed touring. Very nice features and that DCT is an attractive feature. I'm not a fan of it though, notorious failure on the forks, a friend put WR450 forks on his once his failed. If you were taking a pillion and going on mostly dirt roads then this would excel.

BMW - Really different breed of bikes. the 1250 would be the only consideration in your shoes although that bike feels like it weighs a metric ton once you get slow if you decide to do anything technical. 850 is too heavy and too pap, I spoke to an owner of an 800 that sold his 850 for the 800 and did up the 800 to a real beast of a bike. Those 800's ride real good and can sit at 150 all day and do some real good work in the dirt.

KTM 890? If you really want to try take a big bike and do endure stuff - this is your weapon. If it's really ironed out the absolute shit show that was the now discontinued indo-chinease 790 then the 890 will definitely be the best dirt capable adv bike. Only question is whether KTM fixed their blunder.

If I wanted to spend less money fixing stuff then the T700 would be the one.
Excessively expensive for what you get but you sit real low on that bike and it feels the most "Dirt bike" of them all. We took one up to the berg and it performed flawlessly as expected.
The lack of electronics and the bloated sales price is the only reason the 890 is superior in my eyes although the T700 would be cheaper to keep in the long run and would undoubtably have the best resale value.


My choice of bike - given your budget and need for speed - would be between the KTM (Pending reviews on them - the 790 is really a bag of shit considering what you pay) and the Triumph T900. If less dirt go English, if more then go Chinese KTM.

 

[Sub-lime]

@Spectaitor Honestly the pricing on the T700 isnt bad.

Google the prices from the T7 and the 790/890 internationally and you will see the T7 is similar across the board where the 7090/890 is around 60K more expensive. KTM offer some very competitive pricing in SA.

 

[Spectaitor]

@Spectaitor Honestly the pricing on the T700 isnt bad.

Google the prices from the T7 and the 790/890 internationally and you will see the T7 is similar across the board where the 7090/890 is around 60K more expensive. KTM offer some very competitive pricing in SA.

USA Price: Ténéré 700 :$9,999 - R150K @ R15 to the dollar 2021 KTM 890 Adventure (Base Model): $13,099 - R195K ZA Prices : Ténéré 700 : R200 000 - R50k more 2021 KTM 890 Adventure (Base Model): R219 999 - R25k more

 

[PandaAttack1]

USA Price: Ténéré 700 :$9,999 - R150K @ R15 to the dollar 2021 KTM 890 Adventure (Base Model): $13,099 - R195K ZA Prices : Ténéré 700 : R200 000 - R50k more 2021 KTM 890 Adventure (Base Model): R219 999 - R25k more

Gief sauce

 

[Sub-lime]

USA Price: Ténéré 700 :$9,999 - R150K @ R15 to the dollar 2021 KTM 890 Adventure (Base Model): $13,099 - R195K ZA Prices : Ténéré 700 : R200 000 - R50k more 2021 KTM 890 Adventure (Base Model): R219 999 - R25k more

You're absolutely correct, i read UK prices and honestly it shows close 1:1 value as well. I read this somewhere as fact but obviously i was misinformed. Thanks for the correction info

On that note, why is the T7 more expensive

 

[ravingDIODE]

KTM Adventure 790.

Unless you planning on doing more long road trips of 400km+, then get the BMW. But if you want more fun offroad, then the KTM 790 Adventure R or S.

I am sitting in the same boat now, but can't afford new. If I could, the KTM. But 2nd hand I am torn between the GS800 or Adventure 950 / 990.

The main problem for me, the BMW weighs a lot more than the KTM. And knowing I will probably fall over often off-road and my knees not being as strong (I need to excercise more) the KTM would handle easier.

BMW cheaper to maintain though, or so I hear.

 

[PandaAttack1]

KTM Adventure 790.

Unless you planning on doing more long road trips of 400km+, then get the BMW. But if you want more fun offroad, then the KTM 790 Adventure R or S.

I am sitting in the same boat now, but can't afford new. If I could, the KTM. But 2nd hand I am torn between the GS800 or Adventure 950 / 990.

The main problem for me, the BMW weighs a lot more than the KTM. And knowing I will probably fall over often off-road and my knees not being as strong (I need to excercise more) the KTM would handle easier.

BMW cheaper to maintain though, or so I hear.

I am what they call an 'all day' rider. So definitely more than 400km a day, depending on the terrain and pace of my group of course.

I am taking another look at older bikes as well. The KTM 950 and 990 were absolute beasts. The 1190 is also a force to be reckoned with and has all the kit you could want for adventure touring.

But the newer 850 gs and tiger 900 are great bikes. And very appealing, considering the price of used adv bikes. The 950/990 owners still sell their bikes for near a 100k.

 

[Spectaitor]

You're absolutely correct, i read UK prices and honestly it shows close 1:1 value as well. I read this somewhere as fact but obviously i was misinformed. Thanks for the correction info

On that note, why is the T7 more expensive

Bidvest or whatever 3rd party shitbirds are importing the bikes on Yamaha's behalf. They take their chunk first then Yammie wants too.