a few years ago, my place of work supported charities by helping or giving to the underprivileged ... The first year it was a home for abused women and children where we helped them repaint and refurnish the rehab centre which felt good to help out and make some difference ... I have always been an avid supporter of these kind of causes and giving a helping hand, however when they said the following year they are ONLY supporting poor black communities I raised the question ... " why not support a cause that is race agnostic ... " why black only ? surely there are other ethnic groups where kids are also suffering ? well the response was expected ...
1) By supporting black communities we "look better"
2) You must be a racist ...
This bothered me to such an extent that i refused to be involved with this initiative as it was focused around the benefit of a single ethnic group. I don't support the whole quota / BEE system ... look at what it's done for our guavament ... people in positions that really don't know what they're doing , running the countries economy into the ground... Sports teams that used to be world class that are terrible now ... all because of this crap ... So please ma'am, you must help me protect me from myself ... "
It's unconstitutional , and wrong to exclude an ethnic group from equal opportunity. I mean how much longer will this BEE shit carry on ?
Reminds me of George Orwell's Animal Farm ... "All animals are equal, some are just more equal than others " !
How is open and mostly civil discussion not a good thing?
Once upon a time, there was an old man who used to go to the ocean to do his writing.He had a habit of walking on the beach every morning before he began his work. Early one morning, he was walking along the shore after a big storm had passed and found the vast beach littered with starfish as far as the eye could see, stretching in both directions.The first 10 pages of this thread was not "damn that was good".
Just because a discussion is open and mostly civilized doesn't make it a good discussion.
It was a meh discussion at most and I'll tell you why.
1. There were no new information presented that we already knew about.
2. It doesn't seem like anyone's opinion changed on the subject.
3. The same comments form the three sides of this particular subject was made. It's always the same comments about the same things from the same viewpoints.
4. I don't feel any more enlightened after ready all of the previous pages.
5. It looks like no one is walking away from this thread having learnt something new.
In a GOOD discussion I would expect someone ending up changing something about themselves, even if it's just about that way you think about a particular subject. This is not one of those.
I would stick my head out and probably just classify this as another rant thread. The difference being that the rants came from more than one perspective.
Clearly it did if people are getting upset about it.It made a difference to zero one in this instance.
Clearly it did if people are getting upset about it.
I don't quite get what this question proposes. Should we abandon the ideal of an equal society because it's impossible to achieve it to the fullest extent, or is the question simply raising awareness of the difficulty of the issue? What is your opinion on it, and can you elaborate on what you would like to communicate by sharing it?
Then if it didn't make a difference why are they upset? Why are people adamant on closing this discussion, what difference does it make?Making people upset with a discussion does not mean it "made a difference", it just means the discussion made them upset. Someone being upset is not a symptom of there being a difference made to them.
Clearly not you but I've had to do some rethinking about how I think things should work 10 pages later.4. I don't feel any more enlightened after ready all of the previous pages.
5. It looks like no one is walking away from this thread having learnt something new.
In a GOOD discussion I would expect someone ending up changing something about themselves, even if it's just about that way you think about a particular subject. This is not one of those.
People who want to close this thread down:
Clearly not you but I've had to do some rethinking about how I think things should work 10 pages later.
So that covers your someone requirement.
After reading this thread a previous difference in thinking on my part got reversed into the way I thought about things before I thought about them differently, so that cancels out your different way of thinking.
We're back at no requirements met.
Something Positive | Smack talkI have no idea why they want the thread closed. Personally I would just not read whatever is posted here and hope the fallout doesn't affect my day to day carboniting. That's my opinion. If I told you why they are upset and why they want the thread closed it would just be speculation.
I get upset about violent crime, though it doesn't make a difference. Not because I don't care, I just don't think different of violent crimes when they happen, I still get upset.
I would like the violent criminals change their ways, but they are not the ones being upset, I am. I am not a violent criminal, so I don't have to change from not being one to being one because it makes me upset.
“It could have been that our own hearts had turned to stone. But we understood that the oppression dehumanises the oppressor as it hurts the oppressed. We understood that to emulate the barbarity of the tyrant would also transform us into savages. We knew that we would sully and degrade our cause if we allowed that it should, at any stage, borrow anything from the practices of the oppressor.”- Nelson Mandela : Address to Parliament of the Republic of Ireland, 2 July 1990
“The time for the healing of the wounds has come. The moment to bridge the chasms that divide us has come.
Never, never and never again shall it be that this beautiful land will again experience the oppression of one by another and suffer the indignity of being the skunk of the world.
Let freedom reign. The sun shall never set on so glorious a human achievement!” - Nelson Mandela : Inaugural speech, Pretoria, 10 May 1994
“I seem to arrive more firmly at the conclusion that my own life struggle has had meaning only because, dimly and perhaps incoherently, it has sought to achieve the supreme objective of ensuring that each, without regard to race, colour, gender or social status, could have the possibility to reach for the skies.” - Nelson Mandela : Address at the presentation of Cape Town bid a the 106th session of the International Olympic Committee, Switzerland, September 1997
Stop being so chaotic neutral.
You're like Noah but 28 times more cynical.
My opinion is The concept of fast tracking the inclusion of previously disadvantaged individuals is valid. There is flaws in the current system BUT playing the race card against said flaws is not constructive or mature in the sense that it is causing more divide. This is not the approach the once great healers of our country would have wanted and is not the behaviour required to bring us as a nation closer.I think the fact that you think this thread is immature begs a lot of questions my friend. What are you saying? Can you clarify? Are you saying that excluding a race from certain privileges is immature? Are you saying that anti-racism is immature? Please take responsibility for your words and answer the questions. I'd like to here your justification for calling this thread immature?
Something Positive | Smack talk
See what happens when people get upset about violent crime, first they start talking then organizing. The people that want to close the thread don't want the people talking about why the guavament policies/programs are bullshit, they don't want people organising and approaching activist groups.
Laying a charge of assault as we speak.Stop being so chaotic neutral.
You're like Noah but 28 times more cynical.
I see, the race-card is wrong depending on whether it benefits a certain race or not.BUT playing the race card against said flaws is not constructive or mature in the sense that it is causing more divide.
Wow! These are very powerful quotes. I wish that all of us here could see this hero's dream for South Africa and live it. He himself was a changed man and never denied it and that was the difference of one man (Cyst). He had felt the oppression, fought back against it with violence and realized that words are stronger and indeed he changed the thinking of not one person, not one country but the whole world. What a legend!Just leaving this here.
My opinion is The concept of fast tracking the inclusion of previously disadvantaged individuals is valid. There is flaws in the current system BUT playing the race card against said flaws is not constructive or mature in the sense that it is causing more divide.
What would we discuss? There is universal outrage for that incident.20 year old male rapes 7 year old female in Dros ... or have we had enough of a show with this topic and the slight derail of it ?