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  1. #11
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    Re: Star Wars: The Disney Era (INCLUDES SPOILERS PLEASE TAKE NOTE!!!)

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottulusMaximus View Post
    - Wasn't CGI, they used the original puppet
    - You still have momentum in space, the physics holds up
    - Ren pulled off, the wing man fired, this was the "maybe he can be saved" moment

    As for the rest of the ranting, it seems people just didn't get it because they weren't spoon fed. It doesn't matter about where Snoke came from or how powerful he was, the story is about Kylo and Rey. And people are forgetting we knew absolutely nothing about the Emperor before the prequels, I don't think his name is even mentioned in the first trilogy.

    Look it wasn't perfect, I still think Luke dying was a massive mistake, could've worked if we had Leia in the next film but now it's a bit of a void. But the angst and wailing is getting a bit tedious now. It's a bit like being a racist, "I'm not racist but..." "I didn't HATE TLJ but..."
    To be fair to my argument there is no but. There is a very well reasoned explanation as to why it was frustrating. Yes, I did not hate it. I was simply frustrated by it.

    As for the story being about Kylo and Rey. Fine fair enough, but don't hype up a character so much then. Especially when you call your character more powerful than Sidious and Vader. The problem with Snokes death is how significant and well made he is as a character. He is significantly more powerful than Rey and Kylo (as is shown in the film) and yet he dies (and as they said in the video I linked) to a lightsaber that turned literally right next to him? It is far to wishy washy.

    As for Leia being in the next film. She is going to be in the next film. She is not dead. Important point to remember.


    EDIT: Also thought I would add in. Yes the physics might be an issue but the whole plot revolving around that singular thing is flimsy at best. I can think of numerous ways that the all powerful and super imposing First Order could have done to absolutely wreck them. (Remember this First Order is now powerful. Even though millions, possibly billions, died on Starkiller Base they are now the rulers of the Galaxy)
    Last edited by BARGUILD; 20-12-2017 at 08:06 AM.
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  2. #12
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    Re: Star Wars: The Disney Era (INCLUDES SPOILERS PLEASE TAKE NOTE!!!)

    Quote Originally Posted by BARGUILD View Post
    As for the story being about Kylo and Rey. Fine fair enough, but don't hype up a character so much then. Especially when you call your character more powerful than Sidious and Vader. The problem with Snokes death is how significant and well made he is as a character. He is significantly more powerful than Rey and Kylo (as is shown in the film) and yet he dies (and as they said in the video I linked) to a lightsaber that turned literally right next to him? It is far to wishy washy.

    As for Leia being in the next film. She is going to be in the next film. She is not dead. Important point to remember.
    They never hyped up Snoke or said he was all powerful, he was on for less than 5min as a projection in the first one. The internet hyped him up, not the movies, in fact no mention is made that he has any abilities whatsoever other than a master manipulator.

    Leia is the most dead person in the Star Wars universe dude... Carrie Fischer died last year and Disney have already confirmed there will not be a Leia in the next movie.

    Teh interwebs is just mad because all of their "theories" were pointedly ignored:

    "Snoek are da best and all powdaful", nope sorry he does nothing.
    "OMG omg omg, Rey is soooooooo Obi Wan's daughter", cough
    Last edited by ScottulusMaximus; 20-12-2017 at 08:23 AM.
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  3. #13
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    Re: Star Wars: The Disney Era (INCLUDES SPOILERS PLEASE TAKE NOTE!!!)

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottulusMaximus View Post
    They never hyped up Snoke or said he was all powerful, he was on for less than 5min as a projection in the first one. The internet hyped him up, not the movies, in fact no mention is made that he has any abilities whatsoever other than a master manipulator.

    Leia is the most dead person in the Star Wars universe dude... Carrie Fischer died last year and Disney have already confirmed there will not be a Leia in the next movie.
    Snoke says that it was him who brought the minds of Kylo and Rey together. That is most certainly mention of ability. It is also he who (up until this point) has seemingly brought up the First Order and is seemingly almost worshipped.

    I don't remember Leia dying in the film? Which means she isn't dead. If she dies in the novelization then that will simply add to my frustration of the film because it shows a lack of respect towards her character.

    As for the internet hyping up Snoke. With all the information about him, is the hype surrounding him not completely justified? I get misdirection completely. It is a good story device. But most certainly not like this. This is seemingly simple bad screenwriting. It is one director looking at another directors work and disagreeing with it and taking it in a completely opposite direction. Which can be fine, except this time it was done badly IMO.
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  4. #14
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    Re: Star Wars: The Disney Era (INCLUDES SPOILERS PLEASE TAKE NOTE!!!)

    Quote Originally Posted by BARGUILD View Post
    Snoke says that it was him who brought the minds of Kylo and Rey together. That is most certainly mention of ability. It is also he who (up until this point) has seemingly brought up the First Order and is seemingly almost worshipped.

    I don't remember Leia dying in the film? Which means she isn't dead. If she dies in the novelization then that will simply add to my frustration of the film because it shows a lack of respect towards her character.

    As for the internet hyping up Snoke. With all the information about him, is the hype surrounding him not completely justified? I get misdirection completely. It is a good story device. But most certainly not like this. This is seemingly simple bad screenwriting. It is one director looking at another directors work and disagreeing with it and taking it in a completely opposite direction. Which can be fine, except this time it was done badly IMO.
    Also, I ask one more question. Did Snoke dying and Ren suddenly becoming the main victim feel at all powerful to you? Do you really fear Ren? I most certainly don't. His character had great potential in TFA but they took him nowhere in TLJ. I don't know. After much consideration, it still feels half-baked to me
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  5. #15
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    Re: Star Wars: The Disney Era (INCLUDES SPOILERS PLEASE TAKE NOTE!!!)

    I think Luke needed to die. The force is a Balance. With Kylo getting stronger, Rey needs to get stronger too. By dying, Lukeís power is available to be taken, so Rey can take it to keep the Balance. Not in a Highlander way, she will
    Need to train etc. but that force is available. Iím
    Not sure what will happen but one thing I can say, Iím amped for the next one.


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  6. #16
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    Re: Star Wars: The Disney Era (INCLUDES SPOILERS PLEASE TAKE NOTE!!!)

    Quote Originally Posted by BARGUILD View Post
    Snoke says that it was him who brought the minds of Kylo and Rey together. That is most certainly mention of ability. It is also he who (up until this point) has seemingly brought up the First Order and is seemingly almost worshipped.

    I don't remember Leia dying in the film? Which means she isn't dead. If she dies in the novelization then that will simply add to my frustration of the film because it shows a lack of respect towards her character.

    As for the internet hyping up Snoke. With all the information about him, is the hype surrounding him not completely justified? I get misdirection completely. It is a good story device. But most certainly not like this. This is seemingly simple bad screenwriting. It is one director looking at another directors work and disagreeing with it and taking it in a completely opposite direction. Which can be fine, except this time it was done badly IMO.
    What information about him? Take the book and the movie as standalone and ignore all the crap, there is no info on Snoke whatsoever... He died because he overestimated his skills of persuasion/manipulation and Kylo tricked him by using his own game. Like every bad guy dies in every movie, ever. And what different direction? Snoke was portrayed as a master manipulator and leader in the first movie, the same in the second, nowhere is he an all powerful Sith Lord.

    Leia will not be in the 3rd film, klaar.

    This movie WAS different than other SW movies, simply because it was a lot more nuanced, Rian Johnson is famous for this, Looper a case in point. And is why a large majority of people simply didn't get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by BARGUILD View Post
    Also, I ask one more question. Did Snoke dying and Ren suddenly becoming the main victim feel at all powerful to you? Do you really fear Ren? I most certainly don't. His character had great potential in TFA but they took him nowhere in TLJ. I don't know. After much consideration, it still feels half-baked to me
    Again, nuanced. The bad guy isn't just a bad guy, he has motivations, he has a story that led him here, you can see WHY he acts like this. Story telling has thankfully moved on from the 70's and the "bad guy" isn't just there to be defeated. Also Kylo had the strongest character growth of anyone in this movie so I don't understand how you feel he went "nowhere".
    Last edited by ScottulusMaximus; 20-12-2017 at 08:40 AM.
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  7. #17
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    Re: Star Wars: The Disney Era (INCLUDES SPOILERS PLEASE TAKE NOTE!!!)

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottulusMaximus View Post
    What information about him? Take the book and the movie as standalone and ignore all the crap, there is no info on Snoke whatsoever... He died because he overestimated his skills of persuasion/manipulation and Kylo tricked him by using his own game. Like every bad guy dies in every movie, ever. And what different direction? Snoke was portrayed as a master manipulator and leader in the first movie, the same in the second, nowhere is he an all powerful Sith Lord.

    Leia will not be in the 3rd film, klaar.

    This movie WAS different than other SW movies, simply because it was a lot more nuanced, Rian Johnson is famous for this, Looper a case in point. And is why a large majority of people simply didn't get it.
    I think there is more to Snoke than has been shown.

    For example he completely flattens Hax from across the galaxy. Vader never did anything like that. Yoda didnít. Luke didnít even do that when he was projecting against Kylo.

    Thatís why I doubt he is dead. I think he was testing Kylos loyalty in the face of a kindred spirit and found the truth (that he
    Cannot trust kylo). So he allowed kylo to kill the projection this allowing them to both believe he is dead when he isnít.

    If he was the one creating the link between kylo and Rey as is stated, then who created the link at the end? Possibly them, but we donít know that they learnt how. Itís possible but itís a point of conjecture.


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  8. #18
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    Re: Star Wars: The Disney Era (INCLUDES SPOILERS PLEASE TAKE NOTE!!!)

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottulusMaximus View Post
    What information about him? Take the book and the movie as standalone and ignore all the crap, there is no info on Snoke whatsoever... He died because he overestimated his skills of persuasion/manipulation and Kylo tricked him by using his own game. Like every bad guy dies in every movie, ever. And what different direction? Snoke was portrayed as a master manipulator and leader in the first movie, the same in the second, nowhere is he an all powerful Sith Lord.

    Leia will not be in the 3rd film, klaar.

    This movie WAS different than other SW movies, simply because it was a lot more nuanced, Rian Johnson is famous for this, Looper a case in point. And is why a large majority of people simply didn't get it.
    This film is not nuanced. Not at all. There is a ton of plot holes and issues with it. Also, I did not say that Snoke was an all powerful Sith Lord. I don't think he is Sith at all. But I would think it would be very very difficult to argue that his abilities are insignificant. I point to the most obvious fact again. Snoke was able to connect the minds of two extremely powerful force users (as has been shown) without them knowing that it was him and without him having ever met or seen Rey or having known where she was. He was simply able to do that. That is quite the significant feat don't you think?

    As for there being no information on him. That is exactly my point. Maybe I should have worded it better but when I said with all the information about him, I meant specifically the lack of background but the abundance of characterization. And yes, there is a ton of characterization. He has a massive scar on his face. That hints at a past. He has significant force abilities (I mean he did train Kylo Ren at somewhat which he even mentioned in TLJ) which again hints at a significant past. There has to be a reason that he is where he is. And simply using him as a stop gap is lazy writing.
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  9. #19
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    Re: Star Wars: The Disney Era (INCLUDES SPOILERS PLEASE TAKE NOTE!!!)

    Quote Originally Posted by UrBaN View Post
    I think there is more to Snoke than has been shown.

    For example he completely flattens Hax from across the galaxy. Vader never did anything like that. Yoda didn’t. Luke didn’t even do that when he was projecting against Kylo.

    That’s why I doubt he is dead. I think he was testing Kylos loyalty in the face of a kindred spirit and found the truth (that he
    Cannot trust kylo). So he allowed kylo to kill the projection this allowing them to both believe he is dead when he isn’t.

    If he was the one creating the link between kylo and Rey as is stated, then who created the link at the end? Possibly them, but we don’t know that they learnt how. It’s possible but it’s a point of conjecture.


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    You know what UrBaN? I think I am jumping on your band wagon XD. I am sincerely hoping that there is more to Snoke. It won't redeem this film as it still doesn't stand on its own very well but at least it will bring quite a good story somewhat.
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  10. #20
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    Re: Star Wars: The Disney Era (INCLUDES SPOILERS PLEASE TAKE NOTE!!!)

    I enjoyed the movie. It helps that I'm getting old so forgot some of the plot of the previous movie.

    I used to see all the holes in movies but nowadays I go just to switch off and have some entertainment. This movie did just that.


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