Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 32
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Randburg, Johannesburg
    Age
    21
    Posts
    971
    Mentioned
    86 Post(s)

    Star Wars: The Disney Era (INCLUDES SPOILERS PLEASE TAKE NOTE!!!)

    SO THIS WAS MY ORIGINAL REVIEW FROM THE LAST POST, I WILL BE EXPANDING ON IT THROUGHOUT THIS AS I AM INTERESTED IN HAVING A FULL ON DISCUSSION WITH REGARDS TO THE IMPLICATIONS OF THIS FILM




    So this is my ‘review’, and I am calling it “Why I am so frustrated with Star Wars: The Last Jedi


    I AM WARNING ANYONE!!! SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS!!!


    Did I hate the film? No. Did I love it? No. How do I feel? Frustrated and saddened.


    Let me explain. The problem with the film is not that it is bad, it is the fact that it had writing that hinted at a quality story and hinted at a truly great film but IMHO it turned out extremely meh. I am going to point out 3 or 4 scenes and ideas that specifically ruined it for me.


    Lukes first lesson- Life and death, Light and Dark. This was a great scene and it was so well put together and to me it was a great jumping board as to why the Jedi should infact die. Yes, I think the Jedi being no more is actually a great idea. I think it would have been very clever if Luke had shown that in order to be truly at peace and truly respectful, you need to embrace Light and Dark. And that one entity cannot own a single piece (which he hinted at but did not follow through with). This was a great idea, that was not followed through. Then he has the whole scene at the end where he says he is not the last Jedi and then the scene switches to Rey. Um, k? Couldn’t you have written a profound and meaingful story with Luke realising the need for balance in the force and then maybe Rey could have actually made this concrete or something?


    Admiral Holdos interesting scene- They set her character up very cleverly and make her seemingly untrustworthy but then bring her trust back and make her quite a clever and strong character in the eyes of the audience when it turns out she actually had a great idea and Poe was being a prick. This is a great idea because it actually gives the film a great way of killing off Leia. When Leia and Holdo said goodbye on the transport ship, they could have literally traded places. Leia would have become a legend that died fighting for what she believed in (literally just editing in a CGI Carrie Fisher. They have done it and could do it again for the 5 or so minutes they needed to reshoot). And Admiral Holdo would have already proven her trust to the audience in the previous scene and could have gone on to take the place of Leia in a clever way without the need to now use her character in another film. (To me this screams of toy selling and could have been easily written into the story in a respectful and great manner).


    The scene where Leia gets blown out of the ship. I have my own opinions about this scene. But I will keep them to myself as I guess this specific scene depends on how hardcore you are to core material and it isn’t a massive issue.


    Snokes death- This pissed me off massively. It absolutely screams and shouts lazy screen writing. Yes, yes, I have heard the argument some people have said that this film is about nobody and anybody and is trying to show that you don’t need to be a Skywalker to have a place in Star Wars. To clarify, I don’t mind this argument being used with Rey, or Finn. But, I have a huge problem with Snoke. The reason is in terms of significance of ability. His ability is extremely significant. His character placement is extremely significant. It almost feels like they put him in as a villian in the first film without mentioning anything to try and fill a gap until they had figured out an idea and then simply killed him off because it was a convenient. But to rise to power in a massive new order and command the name Supreme Leader and actually take command of what seem to be some sort of Imperial Guards (although I don’t think they are exactly that) is particularly important and significant. Yes it is a completely believable idea of “oh well, he is dead now and it could happen” which is all fine and dandy but there is no characterisation. When he died, I felt nothing. I wasn’t upset or glad or anything at all. He had absolutely no impact on me whatsoever. It is actually reinforcing the idea of “oh well, the villian has to be a Skywalker” and is simply not very good characterisation. I don’t know. Maybe someone else can help me with this as I may not be understanding it very well but that scene did not feel good.


    Last big thing that pissed me off (although there were other smaller issues)- COMEDY… I put this in capitals for a reason. Why is that Disney has taken their Marvel writing department and dumped into their Lucasfilm department? Is there a reason? I am baffled by this. The comedy takes away from many of the scenes and is being blatantly overused. 100% There is a comedic play every second or third scene, if not every single scene. Comedy is great and all and it was most definitely used in the originals but there is a good reason certain genres and certain materials have specific, dedicated comic relief. When you turn almost every character into convenient comic relief, it becomes a farce.


    This film disappointed me and frustrated me because it had SOOOO much potential in the name and EVEN in the actual scenes but it simply took a massive uturn and ignored a lot of what it seemingly got right (in my eyes at least). Obviously this is my opinion so please don’t attack me. I am genuinely interested in having a debate and hearing other peoples opinions on the topic.
    i7 4770K||ASUS Z97 MARK S SABERTOOTH LIMITED EDITION #1669||16GB Corsair VENGEANCE||*TEMPORARILY UNAVAILABLE*||OCULUS RIFT

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Randburg, Johannesburg
    Age
    21
    Posts
    971
    Mentioned
    86 Post(s)

    Re: Star Wars: The Disney Era (INCLUDES SPOILERS PLEASE TAKE NOTE!!!)

    So, in this post I am going to address a few problems I see with some characters...

    Rey - Mmmmm, Rey is far too powerful. She is too powerful too early without any training. We saw in TFA and we see this now. The other issue I feel which I didn't mind in my initial write up but after much thought do have an issue with is her lineage(PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO THIS POINT WHEN READING MY ISSUE WITH SNOKE. The reason why I now have an issue with it is because of how much importance the series placed on it. There were so many scenes calling back to it in TFA and one or two scenes of her trying to figure it out in TLJ. Now yes, it is entirely possible for her as a character to be wanting of this. Fine. But surely then if it were that way, the importance it is put into the films is simply a blatant red herring. And a red herring put in without a clever story. That is why I have changed my tune on it. They should not have done it this way if it was so blatant. It is just blatant and definitely jarring. Much like Snoke...

    Snoke - Ah, thy heartless, dead, meaningless, waste of 135 minutes. Snoke as a character is FAR TOO WELL CREATED to be meaningless. Which is exactly what he is. His presence in TFA was well created and looming. His abilities in TLJ are extreme and amazing. By all accounts, he is an extremely powerful force wielder (not a Sith remember). He commands an entire military and commands Kylo Ren. He is also a well made character in his physical appearance with a brilliant scar on his jaw. Just a random scar though. It doesn't have any significance at all because he is insignificant. Please remember. I think his significance with regards to the force is a bit understated but remember as I said please note in the Rey write up, he is so powerful that he was ABLE TO CONNECT THE MINDS OF TWO FORCE USERS whilst A- Them not knowing at all that he was doing it (regardless of the fact that they knew who they were connected to) and B- (the far more important point) HIM NOT KNOWING REY, HAVING NEVER MET HER OR SCENE HER EVER BEFORE. That is the most important part. Surely that means he requires more significance and should be shown that respect? As I said in my original write up, I think he was honestly a plug for an issue that they had yet to figure out. This is what caused me frustration. His character had potential for expanding the story...oh well, guess the same goes for Luke

    Luke - PLEASE DISNEY, PLEASE OH PLEASE OH PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS STAR WARS JUST READ SOME EU. Luke is a decent character in this film but I do think Disney has ruined him for the sake of money and toys and that pisses me off. As I mentioned in my original, his lesson 1 was a genius plot point that went...NOWHERE. Absolutely nowhere. So now I ask, why did the film have to 153 minutes? Why not just remove that scene? It was worthless. Completely worthless. And yet, it was a great scene to watch in the moment and makes so much sense. That is the frustration and disappointment I speak of. It could have made for a far superior film if the arc of the Jedi being dead was used. I don't think anyone would be upset with this if they used that scene as a jumping board because of how well Luke explains the reason behind why. From this point onward, they kind of waste Luke as a character. I get that they wish to introduce new characters and I am more than happy for this to happen but at least give Luke a decent send off, not one where you blatantly disrespect his character for a second of comic relief. That scene on the salt pan could have been such a good scene with far more significance. It could have been an actually serious battle that added explanation and created a much better character out of Ben. Instead, they ignore this to waste some CGI budget for a few seconds, have a quick laugh and then literally just waste time. Sad and IMHO very disrespectful to his character.

    Leia - What do I say about Leia? I have thought about this some more and these are my 'predictable' outcomes for the next film. She dies very early on in the film in a 'shock' death that won't be shock at all. She gets recast by somebody else and they simply waste budget on CGI. She dies in a book. My money is on the third one because it means a vast amount of the younger audience whom the toy market caters to will avoid that to some extent. They should have done what I said in my original review and simply replaced her with Holdo in the death ship. The scene was on such a grand scale and had such an impact that it would have been an amazing send off for such a character, but it wasn't. I don't get why. I understand that they didn't know, but surely a minute or two of re-CGI shooting work would have been fine? Mmmmmm. Fell way too flat for me.

    Finn + Rose - Finn should have died IMO. It was such a strong scene and would have had a great impact if he had nose dived into that thing and died. It was amazing poetic redemption but I guess it just wasn't Disney-enough for the film. And so of course they might just decide to add the awkward and unnecessary love scene that nobody asked for or needed or liked. Oh wait, they did. It was awkward because the character had no significance. The reason they had no significance is because of the casino scene. The casino scene was another massive waste of time with the whole master code breaker side quest being so retarded. I call it a side quest because it actually felt like I was playing Skyrim. "Wait, before I tell you X you must please retrieve Y from Z over there and then we can talk!" "I will give you Y if you can give me A" Seriously? Surely you could have included the whole 'both sides aren't angels' and 'animal cruelty is bad' morals in some other scene. Why don't you use Rose in a better way? Surely if you wish to include a very 2017 female presence then her being a genius code breaker and tinkerer could have been a great way to show inclusion? There must have been a better way other than wasting every ones time on that scene. Oh but I forget, you couldn't do that because how else would Phasma pitch up?

    Cpt. Phasma - I actually genuinely feel for Gwendoline Christie. I don't know how she feels but she definitely feels insignificant and a waste. Her character could be far more useful and have purpose but she kind of pitches up when they need her and then they kill her when they don't and then she comes back when they need her again. If Disney is trying to bring more women into roles on screen then this is most definitely not the way to do this. Would anyone of her scenes been any more different if you simply replaced her with a higher ranking Storm Trooper? I don't think so. And that is the issue. Oh well.

    The comedy - Won't even comment.



    Disney is most definitely the issue now I think. Honestly. I think they are being too comfortable but also trying to push the boundary at the same time but then pulling themselves back. All at once. And they truly had something in their grasp that could have been absolutely amazing and brilliant. The story as a whole and a lot of the scenes lend themselves to it. But they dropped the ball and dropped it hard. I sincerely hope that Rian Johnson feels embarrassed for what he helped create. I honestly would if I had that budget and saw some of those scenes myself. It is all there...but it never went anywhere.


    Come guys, I am interested in hearing your thoughts. I might go watch again to decide again on some parts and will post again after I give it more thought but I honestly want to hear from you guys.
    i7 4770K||ASUS Z97 MARK S SABERTOOTH LIMITED EDITION #1669||16GB Corsair VENGEANCE||*TEMPORARILY UNAVAILABLE*||OCULUS RIFT

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    JHB
    Age
    31
    Posts
    515
    Mentioned
    49 Post(s)

    Re: Star Wars: The Disney Era (INCLUDES SPOILERS PLEASE TAKE NOTE!!!)

    What did you not like about the film, bar the above? Anything specific?

    I was a little disappointed in certain things (Snoke for example) but I’ve been watching some reviews by Star Wars fans and the amount going on that I wasn’t aware of has changed my look.

    I think we will only truly appreciate The Lady Jedi after we’ve seen the next film. I think things have been set up here discretely which will only play out and become clear in the next installment.

    I loved the film. It’s not the best film I’ve seen but I think they did a great job.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    i5-2500K @ 4.0GHZ - 16GB DDR3-1600 - GTX 970 Windforce - SSD - Windows 10


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Randburg, Johannesburg
    Age
    21
    Posts
    971
    Mentioned
    86 Post(s)

    Re: Star Wars: The Disney Era (INCLUDES SPOILERS PLEASE TAKE NOTE!!!)

    Quote Originally Posted by UrBaN View Post
    What did you not like about the film, bar the above? Anything specific?

    I was a little disappointed in certain things (Snoke for example) but I’ve been watching some reviews by Star Wars fans and the amount going on that I wasn’t aware of has changed my look.

    I think we will only truly appreciate The Lady Jedi after we’ve seen the next film. I think things have been set up here discretely which will only play out and become clear in the next installment.

    I loved the film. It’s not the best film I’ve seen but I think they did a great job.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I will include some more points of mine when I am back at my pc. What other things do you feel you missed?

    Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk
    i7 4770K||ASUS Z97 MARK S SABERTOOTH LIMITED EDITION #1669||16GB Corsair VENGEANCE||*TEMPORARILY UNAVAILABLE*||OCULUS RIFT

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Douglasdale - Fourways
    Posts
    793
    Mentioned
    41 Post(s)

    Re: Star Wars: The Disney Era (INCLUDES SPOILERS PLEASE TAKE NOTE!!!)

    Spoilers

    - When a movie has Jedi in the title, I expect awesome light saber fight scenes. I was wholeheartedly disappointed.
    - The Jedi training island scene was a joke.
    - Instead of portraying Luke as an emotionally broken man, he was depicted as winy 5 year old.
    - I couldn't wait for the Finn vs Captain Phasma (Chrome Trooper) battle, which they turned into an almost comedic scene.
    - The Yoda CGI was cringe at best.
    - The casino side story was pointless.
    - The big ship can't catch up to the small ship because IT'S HEAVIER! In Space! WTF. The whole freakin plot revolves around it.
    - Finn being saved robbed the movie of a massive emotional impact.
    - I can live with Snoke being killed, but at least demonstrate his full power to justify his spot as the top of the food chain villain.
    - Leia being killed by Kylo Ren creates the perfect -"I'm overcome by the dark side, I killed both my parents my soul is doomed"- scenario, turning him into a proper Vader 2.0, instead, Leia is a space walker....

    There's another thing or 2 that bothered me but I'll stop here. Like BARGUILD I didn't hate the movie, there's quite a few things I enjoyed. They eye candy was lovely. I'm just disappointed. It's like when a big blockbuster movie gets turned into a game, but the license is rewarded to a useless game studio *cough* *every Marval character based game ever* *cough*.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    JHB
    Age
    31
    Posts
    515
    Mentioned
    49 Post(s)

    Re: Star Wars: The Disney Era (INCLUDES SPOILERS PLEASE TAKE NOTE!!!)

    Quote Originally Posted by BARGUILD View Post
    I will include some more points of mine when I am back at my pc. What other things do you feel you missed?

    Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk
    Well a few things really, but here are some thoughts.

    I do not believe Snoke is dead. I am fairly certain the Snoke in the throne room was a projection, much as Luke fighting Kylo. He's the most powerful being we have yet seen in the universe and clearly stated that he knows everything going on in Kylo's mind. I think that scene was a test of Kylo and the shock on Snoke's face when Kylo betrays him is shock at the betrayal, not shock at dying. We only ever see him in the throne room, never anywhere else, which is another reason I think it's a projection. Additionally, the amount of info that has been given out about Snoke is usually only given about a main character. Snoke has had about 10 minutes of screen time between the two movies, and I don't think they build him up to the degree they have, only to vanquish him so rapidly. I'm trying to find a specific breakdown I saw on Youtube where the guy (who has a tone more SW knowledge than me) gets into some of the lore and so forth... I'll post it when I find it.
    i5-2500K @ 4.0GHZ - 16GB DDR3-1600 - GTX 970 Windforce - SSD - Windows 10


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Randburg, Johannesburg
    Age
    21
    Posts
    971
    Mentioned
    86 Post(s)

    Re: Star Wars: The Disney Era (INCLUDES SPOILERS PLEASE TAKE NOTE!!!)

    Right I am now at my pc and of sound mind to include a further onto what I have already said.

    I think the issue with this film is more of a general state of affairs than anything really specific. Yes, there were a bunch of scenes that were completely illogical and just plain bullshit. Another example of this is the scene where Luke chucks away the lightsaber and then further when he says light sword or laser sword. Seriously? Do you have to degrade such a prolific figure within the Star Wars Universe to that extent? Would a lightsaber that he lost after his father cut off his hand mean absolutely zip to him? Honestly? This is an old man that has been through much in the 3 or 4 decades since.

    But the entire film feels half-baked and almost like a big middle finger at the originals and anyone who actually paid money to see it. And I will say it again, it does not take a genius to see that a number of scenes and ideas in this film HAD the makings to be truly great but they just seemed to turn away from it.

    I get that it is a business. 100%. But surely you will still make money if you make decisions that create a better, and more profound film? Why do you have to copy every other film and simply make a blatantly generic superhero movie from 2017? Because that is what it was.

    I mean honestly, how many of you walked out of the film feeling anything emotionally? Surely the last film that Carrie Fisher has an involvement in should do that to you? I felt that way because I know she is dead and it was her last film. Not because the film made an impact on me.

    What makes this film to frustratingly disappointing is simply the quality of its' lore and canon. Disney has every right to simply not include any of the old EU stuff in canon anymore. That is fine. But it is not often that you come across a franchise or piece of material that quite literally has thousands of years worth of history tightly and cleverly written together to form a coherent story. No other piece of material is anywhere near that level. LotR doesn't sit there, Harry Potter doesn't sit there, Star Trek doesn't sit there, literally nothing sits there. And that canon is insanely good. Pull from it. Use it. That is new stuff that will appeal to the younger generations and I guarantee the older generations won't be as pissed off with that as some are with this. That is the issue. They don't even need to do a lot of work. They simply need to put it onto the big screen. As is seen with Marvel, that is how they do it. Yes a lot of the stuff is edited but general arcs and lines are still pulled from OG level stories. Why not do that here?

    Because toys and money. Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes I know. Porgs are there because toys. Zero reason whatsoever. Not comic relief, BECAUSE YOU HAVE LITERALLY EVERY OTHER CHARACTER FOR THAT, but for money. As is the reason Finn did not die and Leia did not die and Rose got introduced.

    I am going to be honest, and I would love to know who actually agrees with the following statement: TFA was better than this. Might have been a rehash of the original, but at least it was given a serious tone and given a fair try. This tried to take things in a vastly different direction but without showing it the respect that a franchise that is most certainly genre defining deserves.
    i7 4770K||ASUS Z97 MARK S SABERTOOTH LIMITED EDITION #1669||16GB Corsair VENGEANCE||*TEMPORARILY UNAVAILABLE*||OCULUS RIFT

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Randburg, Johannesburg
    Age
    21
    Posts
    971
    Mentioned
    86 Post(s)

    Re: Star Wars: The Disney Era (INCLUDES SPOILERS PLEASE TAKE NOTE!!!)

    Quote Originally Posted by UrBaN View Post
    Well a few things really, but here are some thoughts.

    I do not believe Snoke is dead. I am fairly certain the Snoke in the throne room was a projection, much as Luke fighting Kylo. He's the most powerful being we have yet seen in the universe and clearly stated that he knows everything going on in Kylo's mind. I think that scene was a test of Kylo and the shock on Snoke's face when Kylo betrays him is shock at the betrayal, not shock at dying. We only ever see him in the throne room, never anywhere else, which is another reason I think it's a projection. Additionally, the amount of info that has been given out about Snoke is usually only given about a main character. Snoke has had about 10 minutes of screen time between the two movies, and I don't think they build him up to the degree they have, only to vanquish him so rapidly. I'm trying to find a specific breakdown I saw on Youtube where the guy (who has a tone more SW knowledge than me) gets into some of the lore and so forth... I'll post it when I find it.
    I thought about this but here is where I find a few things hard to believe.

    A- If Snoke is so powerful, which by all accounts he is and much more (whether or not he is the most powerful being we have yet seen is another thing and depends on ones knowledge of EU), why did he not realise Kylos betrayal and deal with it then and there?
    B- If he was so powerful and his projection died, why did he still not deal with it then and there? As I pointed out, this is a being so powerful that he can connect the minds of two people without them knowing and without him having ever seen or met the one person.
    C- If that is true and it comes out that he is still alive then it further proves why this film is bad. A film should always be able to stand on its' own. Even if part of a trilogy. And if we need the last movie to provide some semblance of him then this film most certainly does not stand on its own.
    D- They have not built up Snoke to any degree. That is my issue. We know zero about him. Compared to other main characters, he is worthless and useless. Which is why I felt nothing when he died.

    Obviously the above is my opinion and I could be blatantly wrong (I hope I am).
    i7 4770K||ASUS Z97 MARK S SABERTOOTH LIMITED EDITION #1669||16GB Corsair VENGEANCE||*TEMPORARILY UNAVAILABLE*||OCULUS RIFT

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Randburg, Johannesburg
    Age
    21
    Posts
    971
    Mentioned
    86 Post(s)

    Re: Star Wars: The Disney Era (INCLUDES SPOILERS PLEASE TAKE NOTE!!!)

    In case anyone is interested, just watched this video and it touches on a lot of my points that I gave. Not everyone enjoys Angry Joe but I do think it poses some good ideas.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cL5oCP0VIEI

    One a specific scene go to 32:45 and watch the next 20 or 30 seconds.
    i7 4770K||ASUS Z97 MARK S SABERTOOTH LIMITED EDITION #1669||16GB Corsair VENGEANCE||*TEMPORARILY UNAVAILABLE*||OCULUS RIFT

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    540
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)

    Re: Star Wars: The Disney Era (INCLUDES SPOILERS PLEASE TAKE NOTE!!!)

    Quote Originally Posted by pXius View Post
    Spoilers

    - The Yoda CGI was cringe at best.
    - The big ship can't catch up to the small ship because IT'S HEAVIER! In Space! WTF. The whole freakin plot revolves around it.
    - Leia being killed by Kylo Ren creates the perfect -"I'm overcome by the dark side, I killed both my parents my soul is doomed"- scenario, turning him into a proper Vader 2.0, instead, Leia is a space walker....
    - Wasn't CGI, they used the original puppet
    - You still have momentum in space, the physics holds up
    - Ren pulled off, the wing man fired, this was the "maybe he can be saved" moment

    As for the rest of the ranting, it seems people just didn't get it because they weren't spoon fed. It doesn't matter about where Snoke came from or how powerful he was, the story is about Kylo and Rey. And people are forgetting we knew absolutely nothing about the Emperor before the prequels, I don't think his name is even mentioned in the first trilogy.

    Look it wasn't perfect, I still think Luke dying was a massive mistake, could've worked if we had Leia in the next film but now it's a bit of a void. But the angst and wailing is getting a bit tedious now. It's a bit like being a racist, "I'm not racist but..." "I didn't HATE TLJ but..."
    Last edited by ScottulusMaximus; 20-12-2017 at 07:54 AM.
    Importing made easy!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •